colorFabb nGen - Cant get it to work properly

[TMicke 23]

Been trying to print with colorFabbs nGen. I think the surface looks great but it is very brittle.

 

I'm printing with an UM2+ .4mm nozzle and am using S3D.

Print speed 45mm/s

Layer height .15mm

Have tried following range:

Temp 220-240° - No difference

Print width .4 - .48mm - No difference

Infill 30-100% - Worse with less infill

 

Thickness of the thin part is 1.5mm.

 

I'm trying to print this standing up cus I think the surface look nicer that way. I'm currently only printing the upper part in order to see of it will hold.

 

The picture shows how it easily breaks, not only between layers but across as well. It acts like an old piece of plastic that gotten hard in the sun. Haven't tried but i reckon that if you drop it on a concrete floor it would go to pieces. The "thinner" piece bends like I would expect.

 

The scull looks good as do surface of broken piece so I like to think that it's not caused by under extrusion, but now as I'm saying it I realize that I should probably try increasing the flow?

I'm running out of ideas.

[TMicke 23]

Well, I've had it with this one. 3 Rolls down the drain ? 

 

Tried all sorts of temperatures, fan speeds, multiplier settings, layer heights, infills. Just can't get it to work.

All my previous printings with PLA (going back for years) are a lot less brittle then the ones I get from this... Sigh...

 

colorFabbs HT works well for me so I guess I'll stick to that when I need something a bit more resilient. Was looking forward to the lower printing temps on the nGen though.

 

Enough with the wining already!!

 

-Just wanted to let you all know.

[LePaul 331]

I had a rough go with nGen too.  I found 235 to be the magic temp for the parts I was printing.  

 

It's ColorFabb HT that's proving very difficult for me to nail down!

[TMicke 23]

I’m not really convinced by nGen, I think I had it printing as good as it gets*. I thought it would be more resilient but my feeling is that PLA is stronger in the sense I’m looking for.

 

I think a part of my problems at one point with nGen was due to HT, it clogged my nozzle ever so tiny, a little bit more every time i used It. And I deformed my teflon coupler. At the time I was jumping between nGen, HT and two different PLA leaving me with nothing but confusion. Just a heads up if you haven’t already noticed.

 

*edit: What I meant to say was that I could not get better results, not that the filament wasn’t better

Edited October 14, 2018 by TMicke

[tinkergnome 927]

17 hours ago, TMicke said:

I thought it would be more resilient but my feeling is that PLA is stronger in the sense I’m looking for.

 

Well, nGen is not as rigid as PLA, but far less brittle. It's is a good choice for functional parts (where impact strength counts), but perhaps not if you need high rigidity.

It's a bit weird that your nGen parts break so easily. I noticed exactly the opposite... Perhaps still too much fan? Usually it prints well without fan or with very low fan settings.

Have you tried other PETG? Like Ultimaker CPE? That's quite strong...

 

My experience with HT is, that it shrinks more and has a high tendency to warp - very difficult to get it adhere to the build plate - especially for parts with a big base area. It works probably better in an enclosed printer, preferable with a heated chamber.

[TMicke 23]

On 10/11/2018 at 3:46 AM, LePaul said:

I found 235 to be the magic temp for the parts I was printing.

How big of a difference was 230C and 240C compared to 235C? If you look at my pictures in the first post, could that be the difference between say 230C and 235C?

 

 

[TMicke 23]

6 hours ago, tinkergnome said:

Well, nGen is not as rigid as PLA, but far less brittle. It's is a good choice for functional parts (where impact strength counts), but perhaps not if you need high rigidity.

It's a bit weird that your nGen parts break so easily. I noticed exactly the opposite... Perhaps still too much fan? Usually it prints well without fan or with very low fan settings.

Have you tried other PETG? Like Ultimaker CPE? That's quite strong...

 

I am painfully aware that it should be ? so obviously I’m doing something wrong. If I posted the model from my first post, would you be willing to print out the top part like I did, and then fold the print once, take a picture and post it here. (Not that I wouldn’t trust you, but some things you just want to see for your self) I’m really all out of ideas. I had some trouble with nozzle and coupler before but that is all good now, just thinking out loud. Can’t say for sure that I tried with fans off, but for the most part I used to have the fans set to 10-15%.

 

I have two rolls of PETG, but I’m waiting for humidity in my house to drop a little more. I’m kind of convenient and don’t like the idea that I have to put my roll in the owen before each print. Maybe I have to do that regardless? Maybe a bucket for my roll with rice bags in it and a small hole in the lid for the filament to come through, that probably is the “best” solution?

[tinkergnome 927]

5 hours ago, TMicke said:

If I posted the model from my first post, would you be willing to print out the top part like I did, and then fold the print once, take a picture and post it here.

 

If it helps, i can try it during the weekend. Send me a PM if you can share the model and/or the factory file.

And i guess i need a more detailed "folding instruction"...? ?

 

5 hours ago, TMicke said:

I have two rolls of PETG, but I’m waiting for humidity in my house to drop a little more.

 

...but nGen is a kind of PETG too (AFAIK) - at least it's based on PETG?

Wouldn't this give the same problems? Is it so super humid at your place that you have such concerns?

 

[TMicke 23]

45 minutes ago, tinkergnome said:

...but nGen is a kind of PETG too (AFAIK) - at least it's based on PETG?

Wouldn't this give the same problems? Is it so super humid at your place that you have such concerns?

Well, I do not know for sure. It makes my head spin when every manufacturer wants to brand it with their own name. It does not snap crackle and pop while printing (pun intended) and their is no steam either.

From what I have understood there should not be much of an concern if your RH is below 50%, when using PET and PETG.

Here in Sweden it's the last of the highest humidity off the year, inside at the moment I'm having about 58% according to my two, don't know correct name; things that measure humidity ? (gauge or meter i suppose...)

 

Speaking of PETG, isn't true that ColorFabbs XT is PETG as well? Is Co-Polyester PETG? Or does all Co-Polyester just share the same characteristics that they collect moisture?

 

Would greatly appreciate if you could make a testprint, I will PM you the files with further instructions as how to bend ? 

[geert_2 558]

I did a couple of prints in nGen too. My experience is that it is a bit more flexible than PLA, but not stronger. I did print with fans off, at ca. 225°C if I remember well. Layerbonding was good. Color black (plus a few tests in other colors on samples).

 

If it snaps on overload, it snaps very suddenly and unpredictable, and the fracture goes diagonally through all layers: it does not follow layer lines nor printed sausage lines (which indicates that layer bonding is good indeed).

 

So it is better for items that need some flexibility, such as snap-fit clamps. And items that need to survive a car interior in summer.

 

The high-gloss shine is nice for some models, but not for others; it depends on the model.

 

Also, nGen is more difficult to glue: my cyanoacrylate sticks less well than on PLA.

 

[tinkergnome 927]

On 10/12/2018 at 6:33 AM, TMicke said:

would you be willing to print out the top part like I did, and then fold the print once, take a picture and post it here.

 

Here it comes, part printed on UM2+, bend and twisted.

It loose its shape a bit after this torture, but doesn't break and can be easily bend back to the right shape.

Pictures were taken in the shown order:

 

 

 

 

[TMicke 23]

Thank you!
May I be a PITA and ask for one more thing, if you bend and/or twist it in the wider part, where mine is cracked in the picture, will it still be in one piece?

The reason I'm asking is that I could do the same in that area of the part that you bent yours, but as soon as I tried to bend elsewhere it cracked.

Sorry if I've been bad at explaining. No need for more pictures though.

[tinkergnome 927]

 

yeah - i guess, I'm still not sure, what your "bending goal" is...?

 

The wider part is much shorter too and therefore stiffer and it's harder to bend of course.
I needed some tools this time...

 

I'm sure, i can break it with a bit more force, or if i clamp it down on a smaller support area, but until now it's still in one piece... ?

 

I think, if you need even more flexibility than this you should try PP, nGen flex or TPU

 

 

 

[TMicke 23]

1 hour ago, tinkergnome said:

yeah - i guess, I'm still not sure, what your "bending goal" is...?

Once again, ty!

My bending goal is that the result I got was laughable, but now I clearly see that most probably I’ve done some bad printings. (It is possible that the filament was bad but as I’ve said earlier, three rolls with different colors gave the same result so I don’t consider that very likely)

I’m not looking for flexibility per say, just a print that doesen’t snap the moment I twist it. If I printed that model in PLA I think I could twist and bend it like you have done. My main purpose was for this phone holder to withstand the summer heat in my car. 

What you have shown me with your pictures is exactly what I was expecting to get with my prints. If I twisted my print a fraction of what you did in your pictures from this last post it snapped, cracked, split as you can se in in the picture from my initial posting, in diagonal none the less wich led me to belive that it was truly brittle as the layer bonding was great. And I easily did with my bare hands.

Tomorrow I will try your fff file, I didn’t see any real difference in it from what I remeber to have tried but something sure is different with our results.

 

Will get back with my results tomorrow when my current printing is done.

[TMicke 23]

Finally, success ? Thanks to @tinkergnome.

The settings aren't mine to share but you know who to ask if you need help.

 

[tinkergnome 927]

Great! I think the profile does not contain something fancy. For reference:

0.4 nGen.fff.zip

[TMicke 23]

This is just unbelievable, yesterday sitting at my computer, I saw my test print lying there beside me and with a smile on my face i took it in my hands and bended it. But this time there was no satisfaction cus it snapped in multiple pieces, like it was made out of glass.

? Whats going on, how is this possible! This time I’m truly done with it.

[LePaul 331]

I had to give up on ColorFabb HT.  I can not seem to resolve the massive stringing.  I upped the retraction a bit more and it's still going on.  Meanwhile I have a $14 roll of PETG printing like a champ on another printer.  I won't waste $45 on anything ColorFabb ever again.

[TMicke 23]

19 minutes ago, LePaul said:

I had to give up on ColorFabb HT.  I can not seem to resolve the massive stringing.  I upped the retraction a bit more and it's still going on.  Meanwhile I have a $14 roll of PETG printing like a champ on another printer.  I won't waste $45 on anything ColorFabb ever again.

What slicer du you use and what kind of models are you trying to print?

 

I'm using S3D and I got satis factional result, I printed the phone holder I posted a few posts up here, it was some months ago but I can't recall any massive stringing in my prints. I would gladly share my profile if it's to any use for you, although I must double check it cus I just looked at it and I had it set to 250° and that a bit lower than my memory tells me.

[LePaul 331]

I used Cura 3.5 Beta

 

Latest print attempt

[TMicke 23]

Uhh, that dosen't look nice. I'm not the right person to give suggestions about Cura settings as I haven't used it much, but I sure didn't have that much stringing.

Have you tried mailing ColorFabb? I did not, but I wish I had. They clearly state on their site that they help with issues during printing.

[JonD 1]

Seems strange after reading the previous posts,  but I am not having any problems with nGen.  No stringing.  It's actually become my favourite filament.  I find it excellent for functional parts and especially like the high 85 degree glass transition temp.  I think it's about the highest of any filament.  I have had several PLA parts sag and deform from sitting in a hot car on a sunny day. 

I did originally have layer to layer bonding issues but they were corrected by reducing the fan speed.  0% for the first two layer,  and then generally 25% for the rest although I do increase it a little for very small parts.  I print at 240 degree with 80 degree build plate.