Global Settings vs Extruder 1

[DivideByZero 0]

Hi,

 

When looking at a saved profile, it shows 2 tabs. Global Settings and Extruder 1 (as I have a single extruder CR10S).

 

But the settings for the profile are different.

 

For example:

 

Global Settings Layer Height = 0.2

Extruder 1 Layer Height = 0.15

 

So, how come there are two different settings stored in the one profile and yet I can only find one place to set these.

 

I have been having some major issues with stringing (to the point of destroying prints) so I am wondering if the settings are different to what I think I am using somehow.

 

Any ideas how this works? Thanks

[Smithy 1,144]

I am not 100% sure, but I guess the global settings are from the original profile and the Extruder 1 setting from your modifications. When you create a new profile, you have an original profile as the base, then you modify some settings and save it as a new profile. But in your case, the layer height should be 0.15, because Extruder 1 settings override the global ones.

 

When you struggle with stringing, try to print cooler and check your retraction settings.

[DivideByZero 0]

Hi,

 

I'm still not clear on where Global Settings come from and why they are different (or where you set them).

 

The reason I am curious about this in relationship to my stringing is I have tried all the usual stuff (and more) so I am wondering what is going on in the slicer now. This global settings is really what I want to understand for this question - I am not looking for stringing help in itself.

 

But, here is what I have tried for stringing (probably not in order):

 

1) Temp tower to get the ideal temp for my PLA.

2) Retraction tests

3) Retraction speed tests

4) Calibrated e-steps

5) Calibrated extrusion multiplier

6) Jerk settings

7) Travel Settings

8 ) print speed settings

9) Acceleration settings

10) Tried 2 different firmwares

11) Changed Bowden tube three times - stock, Capricorn XS, Normal PTFE

12) Changed Bowden Couplers

13) Changed part cooling fan ducts 3 times

14) Disassembled and checked my extruder - recalibrated esteps

15) Tried different brand of PLA, repeating most of the steps above

16) Checked bed levelling, in case this was creep from lower levels being too squished.

17) Changed nozzle 

 

Maybe some other stuff. 

 

Really want to understand the global settings bit next.

 

Thanks /0

[Smithy 1,144]

Can you make a screenshot of the global tab and extruder tab which shows the layer heights?

[DivideByZero 0]

Attached you can see the Global Vs Extruder settings. I have also shown the actual profile setting and also what I can see under the Extruder setting... I must be missing something somewhere as I don't see Extruder layer Height of 0.15 set anywhere.

 

Thanks

[Smithy 1,144]

Strange I did a test on my side and I have only one Layer Height parameter.

 

Can you try to create a new profile. Start with a default (protected) one and change the Layer Height and save it as a new profile - check it again.

[DivideByZero 0]

I actually Had a thought about this while I was trying to sleep last night. I do have a custom start-up script which does a wipe. That's the only place I can think it's coming from. I'm out and about at the moment, but will check and confirm when I get home. 

[DivideByZero 0]

Nope - not the startup gcode. Removed my start code, restarted Cura, even tried a few profiles - the settings still didn't line up.

 

Took the "Normal" profile, which is 0.15 LH. Changed LH to 0.2 and created a new profile from the current settings.

 

Global = 0.2 (correct)

Extruder 1 = 0.15 (wrong)

 

So, where is this extruder 1 setting coming from? The profile I created, while based on the Normal template, had been changed before creation. Does this happen to you too?

[Smithy 1,144]

Did the same test, started from the normal profile and changed to 0.2 LH.

 

 

I have only 1 setting for Layer Height in the Global Settings tab.

[DivideByZero 0]

Well, damn.

 

What is wrong with my Cura?

 

Just did it again, with Extra fine 0.06 and changed it to 0.1 and created a new profile.

 

Global = 0.1

Extruder1 = 0.06.

 

Seeing how I have some weird stuff going on, I would very much like to get to the bottom of this.

 

[Smithy 1,144]

I am using Cura 3.6 just 4 the records.

 

I have no more idea, why it is different on your installation. Maybe try a reinstallation or it is somewhere in your printer profile which makes the difference, but I don't think so.

[DivideByZero 0]

I'm on 3.6 too and I already reinstalled. Will try on a different pc I guess.

[DivideByZero 0]

Downloaded a profile from Facebook last night. Imported that and it doesn't have the issue...

 

A previously downloaded profile I had from a week or so ago does have the issue.

 

Do the devs look in this forum? Someone must know what this is about. Notihng in the manual, but it must be coming from somewhere.

[Smithy 1,144]

1 hour ago, DivideByZero said:

Do the devs look in this forum?

Only from time to time, it is better to report it at Github. There is a link in the Help menu of Cura.

[drlava 0]

Hi, as a brand new user, I find 'global settings' vs 'extruder settings' confusing as well. I am trying to edit into a custom profile my desired settings for a specific filament.  

Just editing the print settings in the material manager isn't sufficient because there is no flow_rate_extrusion_offset_factor available there. Plus the settings aren't applied, as the printer profile over-rides them (oddly).

The issue is there [i]doesn't appear to be any way to edit the print settings in the printer profile manager[/i]. I can Update a custom profile only by editing settings from the main screen then going to the profile manager and selecting 'Update Profile', but those changes are only applied to 'Extruder 1' not the global settings of that profile, and even then there is no setting for extrusion offset visible.

 

So I go for the extreme work-around of exporting, unzipping, and manually editing the profile, and there is some illogic to what is deemed Global and what is deemed Extruder X settings in those files.  

 

My custom extrusion offset factor went to the global profile settings, but the infill type, print temperature, and print speed went to the extruder profile settings. Huh?

 

As a new user, I get why there could be multiple extruder settings and a global setting for universals (like material bed temp which is the same for all extruders on a machine). but can't see the logic or utility of why extrusion factor is global, and why the Ultimaker Cura help page doesn't elucidate how to edit profiles, and doesn't contain the word 'edit' at all.  Most likely as a result this is why it's rated 42 out of 195 found it helpful.

 

Thank you for making this amazing software available, for free! In this case, it feels like there is a bit of legacy cruft or logic along for the ride.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gr5 2,170]

My 2 cents...

 

I never edit profiles.  Never.  I got burned early on and went a different process and it seems to work better as people complain about profile bugs and issues all the time but never the way I go.

 

I use "projects" the way most people use "profiles".  They are 2 ways to achieve the same goal which is to be able to pull up settings that worked for you in the past.  Everytime (every time!) I save a gcode file I also save the project file (menu "file" "save project...").  Later when I am going to slice something else I find the project file that has the settings I want and load that.  It loads up cura just the way I want it.

 

For example if I do my first ever glass-filled-nylon print and I get the settings just the way I want it and say the first thing I ever printed was some x-clip.  Then a week later I want to print a bracket and I just load up the x-clip project, load in the STL and slice.

 

I don't know if this will help you or not.

 

The other thing I want to point out is that there is this wonderful plugin in cura called "printer settings" and more importantly "material settings".  There are many many more settings there than you can normally see.  To install a plugin click "marketplace" in the upper right corner of cura, make sure it's on the "plugins" tab (not the materials tab) and these 2 plugins are blue.  Install the plugin and then restart cura.

[DivingDuck 104]

Beside the good tips from @gr5 there are 3 resources to gather further information on how printer definitions and profiles work:

• https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/wiki/Adding-new-machine-profiles-to-Cura
• https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/wiki/Profiles-&-Settings
• and looking into existing definitions and profiles either in program and data directories of Cura or the definition files  at Github (https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/tree/main/resources and https://github.com/Ultimaker/fdm_materials)

The problem with making your own profiles and definition is, that you need to review and update them yourself frequently  when new Cura releases come up.

Usually this isn't a route that I would suggest users with off the shelf printers especially when there are existing profiles supported from Ultimaker, printer manufacturer or the community here.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by DivingDuck

[drlava 0]

gr8 tips, gr5 and DivingDuck, thank you.  The saved project path makes sense, and clearly that's a work-around due to the challenging nature of profile management in Cura currently.

 

DD, about version updates - if they break profiles, then would they break saved projects as well? If in new updates there's not built-in migration code or design to load previous profiles that would be a challenge for community and manufacturer created profiles as well.  Can you clarify?

[DivingDuck 104]

Usually for existing profiles from Ultimaker this isn't a huge problem as they at least do some checks of those profiles / configurations and correct general settings if they need to be changed.

For own configurations and profiles you need to do that yourself. Only major setting changes like version and  id management will be adjusted during migration. But you can't really be sure as no one else than you know what's in your configurations and what needs to be adjusted.

 

Let me say it that way, if you do it as an service business and you want support printer configurations over lifetime than you better calculate a decent amount of support time and cost for those kind of activities.

 

Regarding saved projects, they are in general not broken as they was build with an correct working configuration matching a Cura version. With an new version of Cura you have at least the chance to import the project. The big question is, will a well tuned project print with a new Cura version as good as with the old version?

My answer is: it depends, in most cases not. A project file is good as long you stay in the same environment. Changing the software or firmware version will change the game.

 

[gr5 2,170]

I've always been able to read older project files with newer versions of Cura but if you go the other way around sometimes it knows there are conflicts so it won't let you open the project file (it will only let you open the models).  there's no way for older cura to predict what newer cura settings will exist.

 

Yes some new feature in cura may default wrong but that is unlikely.  Very unlikely.  Most new features either default off, or they are just so unarguably wonderful that it's okay if you get the new feature by default.