ABS settings

[mr_seeker 0]

Hello,

Has anyone printed in ABS, and if so, what are your settings? Wanted to print some prints in ABS (PLA got boring after a while).

[jenschr 6]

Prints fine using just the same settings as PLA with the exception of setting Packing density to 0.85 :-)

J

[joergen 2]

Has anyone printed in ABS, and if so, what are your settings? Wanted to print some prints in ABS (PLA got boring after a while).

Print temp is about 30-40C higher than PLA, packing density is 0.85, as jen mentioned, your e steps are probably a bit lower (ABS is softer than PLA).

if you have a heated bed, you need about 110-115C surface temp, and you can print on plain glass (112-120C)

other than that, it's pretty much the same, minus the horrible oozing of liquid PLA.

[calinb 11]

My Ultimaker kit is finally on its way aboard DHL and I have a bunch of software running on Ubuntu, including the Netfabb UM engine running under wine. The controller and heater for my heated bed mod are standing-by.

I'm using the extra preparation time to create a few ABS materials definitions in Netfabb and export some gcode. For starting points, Joergen's suggested deviations from PLA settings are as comprehensive as I've found. I have modified the Netfabb PLA materials definitions as follows:

1. added 30-40C to print temp

2. decreased packing density setting from 100% to 85%

Do I need to adjust the e-steps (extruder steps?) in some manner? Is this done to compensate for the reduction in filament feed rate of the softer ABS? Do I compensate by increasing the extruder speed using the override feature?

[joergen 2]

2. decreased packing density setting from 100% to 85%

Do I need to adjust the e-steps (extruder steps?) in some manner? Is this done to compensate for the reduction in filament feed rate of the softer ABS? Do I compensate by increasing the extruder speed using the override feature?

Netfabb seems to apply the same voodoo math than skein forge does, based on recommendations from Paul and Florian.

The initial packing density of 0.85 will (most likely) show (severe) over extrusion. I think the general consensus is to adjust the flow parameter, aka the e-steps per mm.

first, calibrate your e-steps, ABS is a little bit softer than PLA, and requires a tiny bit different e-step values: i.e. default is 865 for PLA, and 860 for ABS... the difference is minuscule, and for practical purposes in the beginning could be ignored. I found (through experimentation and observation), that ABS is loosing about 2% volume in the printing process, this could be water and VOCs, resulting in the usual unpleasant steam/smoke/smell from printing ABS.

Slic3r and Kisslicer run pretty well with flow adjustments of 1.04 to 1.05 for ABS, while Cura seems to do well with e "packing density" of 0.96. I would assume netfabb would benefit from the same "packing density" value (and I think packing density is simply the wrong word/concept for this, and while there is hope that Daid hopefully changes this in Cura in the future, I have zero hope that this default will change in Netfabb)

[calinb 11]

Thanks, Joergen! Should I use the new Netfabb volumetric mode? Would it make the adjustments for ABS easier? It seems like a volumetric mode strategy might be to tweak the Netfabb settings for the filament diameter. Maybe I should start with volumetric mode and only adjust the print temperatures, initially. If the results indicate under extrusion, I could reduce the Netfabb filament diameter setting slightly. Volumentic mode seems to be very simple to manage.

I'm not committed to using the Netfabb UM engine, but I am currently running on a relatively slow Ubuntu machine (dual core Atom netbook) and the Netfab slicer and "Calculate Toolpath" features run acceptably fast. I'm planning to use my Ulticontroller for printing my parts, BTW.

Alternatively, I could install Cura and start my trials with it. If you were at the bottom of the long Ultimaker learning curve today, what tools and strategy would you use? I have an old dual-core Pentium 4 desktop box (my old "Hackintosh") that would be clunky and inconvenient to use alongside my Ultimaker, but I could install Windows or Linux on it and enjoy a bit of a speed bump over my netbook.

As always, your assistance is most helpful!

[joergen 2]

Thanks, Joergen! Should I use the new Netfabb volumetric mode? Would it make the adjustments for ABS easier? It seems like a volumetric mode strategy might be to tweak the Netfabb settings for the filament diameter. Maybe I should start with volumetric mode and only adjust the print temperatures, initially. If the results indicate under extrusion, I could reduce the Netfabb filament diameter setting slightly. Volumentic mode seems to be very simple to manage.

volumetric is the way to go, anything else is utterly pointless. But I also haven't touched netfabb in the last 6 months, and have basically given up on it due to the lack of reliable retraction settings, and the lack of meaningful updates.

I use mostly kisslicer right now, and cura is a great slicer in the beginning, since it is easier to understand and get good results right away. slic3r will also be a great slicer.

[calinb 11]

I'm tweaking my settings for my first ABS prints and I've discovered that, at least in netfab, reducing the "packing density" setting reduces extrusion. Other software and devs are now referring to this parameter as the "extrusion multiplier," which I agree is a better term than "packing density."

I was getting over-extrusion at 100% and I've found that 85% is about right for printing small solid objects in ABS. Looking at the gcode, it is clear that a smaller netfabb extrusion multiplier results in less rapid extrusion in volumetric mode. Scroll the following code windows to the bottom to inspect the G1 E values in the last lines of code:

100%

 

M104 S255.00M92 E866G21G91G1 X0.00 Y0.00 Z5.00 F500G90M109 S255.00G28G92 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00 E0.00G1 E0.00G1 X0.00 Y0.00 Z5.00 F600.00M106 S255G1 X205.00 Y200.00 Z5.00 F5000.00G1 X205.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F5000.00G1 X205.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500.00 E3.23G1 X204.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500.00 E3.27G1 X204.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E6.50G1 X203.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E6.53G1 X203.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500 E9.76G1 X202.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500 E9.80G1 X202.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E13.03G1 X201.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E13.06G1 X201.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500 E16.30G1 X202.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F50000 E11.44G1 X0.00 Y200.00 Z0.00 F15000G92 E-4.85 G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.2000 F3240.0000 M107G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.3800 F1200.0000 G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.4000 F1200.0000 M104 S255.0000 (minimal layer time: 10.00 / Time Entry: 0)(#0-#3: extrusion time: 77.93 / jump time: 5.03)(printing at normal speed)(begin layer 1 at 0.040)G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.0600 F1200.0000 G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 G1 X97.3200 Y86.9100 Z0.0400 F10500.0000 E0.0000 G1 X98.7468 Y85.2519 Z0.0400 F10500.0000 E0.0000 G1 X99.9800 Y84.2500 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0150 G1 X101.6100 Y83.3600 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0325 G1 X103.3800 Y82.8100 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0500 G1 X105.2100 Y82.6100 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0674 G1 X107.3200 Y82.8300 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0874 

 

85%

 

M104 S255.00M92 E866G21G91G1 X0.00 Y0.00 Z5.00 F500G90M109 S255.00G28G92 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00 E0.00G1 E0.00G1 X0.00 Y0.00 Z5.00 F600.00M106 S255G1 X205.00 Y200.00 Z5.00 F5000.00G1 X205.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F5000.00G1 X205.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500.00 E3.23G1 X204.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500.00 E3.27G1 X204.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E6.50G1 X203.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E6.53G1 X203.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500 E9.76G1 X202.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500 E9.80G1 X202.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E13.03G1 X201.00 Y200.00 Z0.35 F2500 E13.06G1 X201.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F2500 E16.30G1 X202.00 Y100.00 Z0.35 F50000 E11.44G1 X0.00 Y200.00 Z0.00 F15000G92 E-4.85 G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.2000 F3240.0000 M107G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.3800 F1200.0000 G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.4000 F1200.0000 M104 S255.0000 (minimal layer time: 10.00 / Time Entry: 0)(#0-#3: extrusion time: 77.93 / jump time: 5.03)(printing at normal speed)(begin layer 1 at 0.040)G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.0600 F1200.0000 G1 X0.0000 Y200.0000 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 G1 X97.3200 Y86.9100 Z0.0400 F10500.0000 E0.0000 G1 X98.7468 Y85.2519 Z0.0400 F10500.0000 E0.0000 G1 X99.9800 Y84.2500 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0128 G1 X101.6100 Y83.3600 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0277 G1 X103.3800 Y82.8100 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0425 G1 X105.2100 Y82.6100 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0573 G1 X107.3200 Y82.8300 Z0.0400 F1200.0000 E0.0743 

 

Furthermore, note that the E-steps "M92 E866" statement is identical in both sets of gcode. The G1 E values are reduced by 15% in the 85% case.

I think ABS expands more than PLA after it's cooked! If the softer ABS filament rode deeper into the knurling of the hobbed drive bolt, MORE turns of the (effectively smaller diameter) bolt would be required to drive the same length of filament compared to PLA. This would require a LARGER "packing density" setting, instead of a smaller one.

I did use a micrometer to measure the ABS filament in several places and updated my netfabb materials settings.

[yzorg 9]

Hi there

I got an issue with ABS..

thers this colour variation.

My nozzle is clean and i print at 255-260° C with CURA, standard print, natural ABS on a cold acryl plate.

see my pic..

[joergen 2]

I'm tweaking my settings for my first ABS prints and I've discovered that, at least in netfab, reducing the "packing density" setting reduces extrusion. Other software and devs are now referring to this parameter as the "extrusion multiplier," which I agree is a better term than "packing density."

I was getting over-extrusion at 100% and I've found that 85% is about right for printing small solid objects in ABS. Looking at the gcode, it is clear that a smaller netfabb extrusion multiplier results in less rapid extrusion in volumetric mode. Scroll the following code windows to the bottom to inspect the G1 E values in the last lines of code:

Interesting to hear that 85% (netfabb) is working for you, since 85% in cura never worked for me.

[joergen 2]

Hi there

I got an issue with ABS..

thers this colour variation.

My nozzle is clean and i print at 255-260° C with CURA, standard print, natural ABS on a cold acryl plate.

see my pic..

[attachment=0]Bildschirmfoto 2012-11-12 um 16.09.40.png[/attachment]

I see the same issue, especially with white abs... I think it is temperature related, and possibly humidity related. Try lowering your temperature by 5-20C in 5C steps, and see if the discoloration goes away, but you still get good adhesion to the previous layer. Maybe dry out your ABS before printing? I'd call this effect "overcooked ABS"

[calinb 11]

Interesting to hear that 85% (netfabb) is working for you, since 85% in cura never worked for me.

I'm not sure that 85% will stand-up, in general. for netfabb. I was printing a simple test cylinder (both hollow and solid). Although the black ABS I was using was up to these simple test prints, it completely failed to print a more difficult part with some details. I discovered that no matter what temperature I tried (from about 225 to 260) it extruded little "droplets" or "balls" in the molten extruded stream. It also didn't seem to be very sticky so it tended to ball up when printing overhangs on top of support and even sometimes even fill.

E-steps per mm, packing density, and extrusion multiplier all amount to the same thing--they are all just adjustments affecting how many turns the extruder drive bolt must make to supply an appropriate amount of extruded plastic. They are actually redundant parameters when more than one of them is provided as an adjustment to the user. In volumetric mode, netfabb provides only "packing density" (more correctly called extrusion multiplier in this case). The user must hack the gcode header to change E-steps / mm.

I've learned to examine gcode to see what software is really doing!

I switched to some yellow ABS and it was like a new material compared to my yucky black ABS! Nice smooth extrusion and much better at handling the complexity of my part. The black ABS reminds me of fluxline's experience. I'm contacting the vendor, because it's completely unusable for printing anything of value.