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Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...


3DNetZero

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Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

How's it going everyone?

 

I had a print profile for TPE (shore hardness 82A) and it printed flawlessly through Cura 4.8. Upon the update to 5.0, my prints started to string a lot more and come out with blobs with with the print fusing with the supports as well. Definitely the retraction setting if I'm not mistaken. 

Been tweaking it for a bit with no results... 

Think anyone can help me out? I have the original file for the part if anyone wants to check it out. Any help and advice would help thank you

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    TPE?  TPU?  I'm wondering if the filament absorbed water.  When filaments absorb water, the water turns to steam as it prints and that causes steam bubbles in the filament.  The filament expands more than usual.  You get much more stringing and blobs and things stick together more than they should (because they expanded).  Some filaments (e.g. PLA, ABS) are not really affected by humidity or only subtly affected.  But many filaments (particularly PVA and Nylon) can absorb too much water in just a few hours.  It's usually easy enough to dry the filaments (e.g. for Nylon 75C heated bed temp overnight with towel on top should dry out any loosened filament but 75C for PVA might soften it enough to ruin it).

     

    If you pay attention you can see steam coming out of the nozzle as you extrude.  Maybe not for the first 10 seconds as you have previously heated filament sitting in the nozzle but pretty soon after.  Try the MOVE feature to extrude for a full minute and look for steam.

     

    You can also see that the filament goes from shiny (when dry) to foamy/matte (when wet).

     

    The key parameters are flow and your filament tension.  Make sure tension is at the minimum.  The higher the tension the less you are actually extruding as it squeezes to a smaller cross sectional area as it passes through the feeder.  For most filaments, flow is at 100% but for flexibile filaments you often see flow values above 100% to compensate for this feeder compression.  I'd check the flow in cura 4.8 that you were using and again in cura 5.0.

     

    For retraction you want the exact amount for the filament to be resting in the bowden (no pressure).  You don't want to actually pull out of the heater block.  While printing you can see the filament is pushing up on the top of the bowden arc.  When retracting it should just barely rest at the bottom of bowden at the top of the arc.  No extra retraction or you can suck air into the nozzle which is worse than no retraction at all.

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    @gr5 Thanks for the reply. I dehydrated the TPE filament within a food dehydrator and made an air tight dry box to print directly out of with a bowden tube. I seem to have got the retraction setting down to 5-5.5 mm and 45 mm/s.

     

    However, I now realized my print, (a simple tower with small 90 degree angle overhangs) is flimsy from the bottom but structured yet flexible on the upper. I have the infill density set to 20% with a grid pattern and the only layers on the bottom of the print affect are the same layer height as those with supports...

     

    Any advice on how to fix this issue?

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...
    16 hours ago, 3DNetZero said:

    However, I now realized my print, (a simple tower with small 90 degree angle overhangs) is flimsy from the bottom but structured yet flexible on the upper.

    ??? not sure - when people describe something visual with words I always imagine the wrong thing.

     

    So when Mari says "share the .3mf" she means share the project file.  Do menu "file" "save project" and post the resulting file.  There are other types of 3mf files that are not project files.  We want to see the project file which will include your model, how you positioned it, what machine profile, printing profile, material profile you are using and your overridden settings.

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    Hey guys @gr5 @MariMakes

    Attached below is my 3MF file I have created from design in fusion 360. The print is oriented within cura so it stands and prints upright. Additionally, I've attached pictures of prints with the cleaner one from Cura 4.8 and the messy stringy mess from 5.0. Cant seem to tame the stringing or get back the same quality as the 4.8. Any advice on how to take on this issue? Filaments are dry and printing straight out the dry box. 

     

    The messy print in the pictures were printed with these parameters: NOTE --> I changed the gcode flavor to Marlin...

    Nozzle: 235F , 0.4 mm size --> 0.2 layer height

    Bed Plate: 60F

    Infill: 2-%; Infill Line Distance: 1.75 mm; Infill Pattern: Grid

    Speed: 35 mm/s; No Jerk Control or Acceleration Control

    Retraction: 5.5 mm; 45 mm/s --> NO Z HOP ENABLED

    Cooling: Fan on 100%

    Support: Normal, Touching Build plate, Support Overhang Angle: 50, Support Pattern: Zig Zag, Support Density: 2-%

    Used Towers: Yes --> Tower Diameter = 3 

    IMG_2981.jpg

    IMG_2982.jpg

    Bottom 3MF File.3mf

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    Unfortunately, you did exactly what I was afraid you would do. 😞

     

    I'm pretty sure you posted just the model 3mf file.  I don't think you saved the project file.  So the file you sent doesn't include any settings.  It doesn't show the orientation of the model (although the picture helps).  It doesn't tell me what temperature you printed at.  Nothing.  Just the model.

     

    Please read my post above one more time.  Thanks!

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    @gr5 Ahhh I apologize. I thought you were referring to the Fusion 360 design I converted. Attached below is the current settings I have and saved from Cura. Hopefully this is what you were referring to. Please let me know!

    RX-V1 Bottom for Ulti Com.3mf

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    Those strings sure look like moisture related.  What temperature did you set the vegetable drier to?

     

    And is your material really "TPE"?  I googled it and it's kind of a vague name - could you provide a link to the material please?

     

    I guess I would try heating the print bed of your printer to about 70C and putting 5cm of the material on the print bed, under a towel for 3 minutes and then squishing the material to see if it holds the dent.  Then change the temperature up or down to try to find where the material is dented easily.  then set the drier to 5C cooler than that temp (or 70C whichever is cooler - if you go above 80C you could warp the spool holder itself - not a disaster but it can be quite annoying to have warped spool).

     

    Once you know the ideal temperature, make sure you unspool enough material for the print (about 6 meters) before drying the material.  You don't have to cut the filament - just unspool it loose enough for air to get among the filament.  Or dry it on the heated bed of your printer with a towel over it and sit the spool on top of the unspooled filament.  In this case you can set the temp much higher as just 5mm above the heated bed it will be quite a bit cooler.

     

    At 70C, for unspooled filament, it takes maybe 2 to 4 hours to dry it.  If you don't loosen the spool then it can take days or weeks to dry the material deep in the spool.

     

    At 50C you definitely want to dry overnight.

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...
    5 minutes ago, 3DNetZero said:

    Hopefully this is what you were referring to.

    yes!  🙂

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    @gr5 

    https://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Small-Kitchen-Appliances-Food-Processing-Food-Preservation-Dehydrators/Weston/N-5yc1vZc68cZ9nh 

    https://recreus.com/gb/filaments/9-684-filaflex-82a.html#/1-colour-black/2-diameter-175_mm/3-weight-500_gr

     

    This is the food dehydrator I modified to dehydrate my 3kg spool of TPU (Was marketed as TPE but as I checked their website recently they changed it to TPU) as well as the filament I am using. Filament was dried at 122F (Slightly less than the 125F mark on the dehydrator; for over 24 hours)

    Not too sure if it's moisture as the color changing desiccants I poured into the dry box is blue and not pink (indicating saturation of moisture). 

     

    Seems to be the combination of speed, temperature and retraction which is an absolute headache. Additionally, I am hearing both sides of the story when it comes to z-hop, so that's another variable that is put into the equation of possibilities 😞

     

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    Posted · Cura 4.8 to 5.0 Update Messed Up My Print...

    In general I don't recommend z-hop for printers other than delta printers.  If you do a z-hop then part of the layer was printed where the bed was moving away from the nozzle (on layer change) but then another portion is printed with the bed moving up towards the nozzle (after a hop).  And if you have even just 0.02mm (1/5th of the thickness of a sheet of paper) of backlash then you will get ugly horizontal layer lines in your print.  Now a brand new UM2+ might not have any play in the Z screw but if there is any dirt in that zscrew at all then you will get some play issues.

     

    125F is 52C.  Not as good as 70C.  By my calculations if you want the humidity at 10% (lower is better) at 52C then at 20C you need the humidity at 60% maximum.  Is that the case?  Do you have air conditioning or something?  If it's truly 52C all around the filament then that should be good enough.  Did you loosen the spooling a bit?  If not then does it seem like the lower 1/3 of your print (first meter) is much better than the upper 2/3?  I don't know - it seems like you shouldn't have to loosen the filament on the spool at all if you are only printing 2 meters - that's probably 2 turns around the spool.

     

    I guess I would try printing your part in cura 4.X and if it gets better again then post that project file also and I can compare all the settings (but tell me what versions of cura exactly you used).  I think Ultimaker changed some things in the printer profiles when they switched to 5.0 but I'm not certain.  In general they hate to change profiles but I think once every 5 years  or so they should just go for it.  But with BIG warning messages.

     

    What I *do* recommend for a material this flexible is to add a drop of oil to the filament before you insert it into the bowden. I do this for ninjaflex which is shore hardness 85A - almost identical to your filament.

     

    I should also let you know that those strings are very wispy and you can remove them almost instantly with a flame such as a match or gas stove flame or similar.  Apply to those strings for just 1/4 second.  They disappear!  (actually they shrink down to a tiny ball that are harder to see and usually you can remove those pretty easily).

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