Jump to content

Problem with Print cores at the same height


Javier_M

Recommended Posts

Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

I have a problem with the printer because when doing the automatic leveling it fails and says that the two printcores are at the same height, I have tried to calibrate it with the switch and it continues to give the same error, I changed the printcores and the protective rubber, I thought In cleaning the sensor contacts and the print cores and even replacing the sensor, would there be any option to deactivate the automatic leveling or to solve this error with some firmware?

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height
    4 hours ago, Javier_M said:

    printcores are at the same height,

    I think it says not at the same height.

     

    I recommend you watch the leveling procedure - just the first two tests which are different.  There are a few failure modes which are completely different and easily distinguished by watching:

     

    1) Surface detected too early.  As it does the leveling it never even touches the glass.  This indicates electrical problem such as nearby interference. Do the leveling sensor test in maintenance and report back on the number it displays (< 8 is a pass).

    2) Surface detected too late.  The test relies on the capacitance changing.  The surface isn't detected until the glass moves down without the nozzle moving up.  Visually you see it touching the glass and still moving down more on one core than the other and it's usually obvious.  It could be the springs are too tight on the print bed or too loose on the core but this is very rare.

    3) Cores are truly different heights.  This more common than you might think.  They can vary.  If you look in the log file you can see what was measured.  The cores are supposed to be 1.5mm different height nominally with an error of only 0.7mm allowed.  It could be a bit of gunk on the nozzle tip that wasn't hot enough to squish flat during the procedure.  This is extremely difficult to measure on the core itself with a micrometer as it's the height from the tip of the core to how it seats inside the print head so to the 45 degree angled area of the core just above the heat break.  So if it's issue #3 I'd just try a different core on the right core.  Or left core.  Sometimes the lifting switch doesn't function so it measures the same nozzle twice which is of course a problem. This is the easiest of all things here to fix.

     

    #1 is most often caused by electromagnetic interference by the front fan.  First distinguish the issue and then you can get advice on your particular issue.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    My issue was indeed because of a probecore being way to low. Don't know how its use could have lowered it, don't think any clog issue would be able to unscrew the head around the thread so I guess that it was sold like this, and just barely OK that it worked during a pair of monthes and then triggered each time the height difference detection.

     

    If so, that quite a Q-Check issue from Ultimaker.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    The cores are built to tolerances of around 0.1mm and the height measurements tolerate errors of up to .7mm.  There is a metal plate in the base of the print head that assures the probe height is accurate.  Very consistent.  It should only fail "different heights" error if something is indeed seriously wrong.

     

    How do you know one print core is "too low"?  Did you watch what it is doing?  One print core should *always* be lower than the other.  When the right core is down it should be 1.5mm lower than the left core.  When the right core is up, well that tolerance is not measured but it should be higher than the left core.

     

    Please read carefully what I wrote above and then watch carefully the printer do the first two probes.  Maybe video the 10 seconds or so when it does the first two "touches" and then post that video here.  It all happens quite quickly so videoing it is very helpful.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height
    12 minutes ago, Dadkitess said:

    If so, that quite a Q-Check issue from Ultimaker.

    Indeed.  Which is why I think you have come to the wrong conclusion about the problem.  The quality control is excellent.  Final testing of every printer is quite extensive.  Many failures are related to violent shipping but not variances in printcore lengths.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted (edited) · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    Yup : I've observed it running multiple time, and compared it to a pair of functioning PrintCore doing the same initial Z test, and indeed it was clearly visible that the left one was way too low and touched way too soon, inducing the second one to not be able to touch the plate relatively speaking, because of the height difference trigger.

     

    And so, when visually inspecting the PrintCore that was in fault, it was really clear that the brass nozzle itself is lower, because not threaded enough compared to the other. About 1 fillet more (one... Step of thread ?) is visible. I'll add pics when I find them back 😉

     

    Is it possible that some over-pressure because of clogging can "unthread" / unscrew it ? (Sorry for my English, hope it's clear enough ^^) Don't see how but we never know 😄

    Edited by Dadkitess
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    Oh!  Okay.  A picture of the core would be very helpful.  The heater block can be threaded higher or lower on the nozzle.  That shouldn't change things.  Are both printcore's made by Ultimaker or is one a 3rd party print core?  maybe from 3dsolex?  3dsolex print cores have a red circuit board.  Ultimaker's have a white circuit board.

     

    Your printer should have come with a minimum of 2 AA 0.4 cores and 1 BB 0.4 core.  Presumably there is a spare core you haven't been using.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    Also realize that printcores are considered a "consumable" by ultimaker.  Similar to filament.  The cost of printcores is much lower than filament.  Ultimaker keeps the price of printcores as low as possible.  I think almost zero profit on printcores.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height
    On 3/24/2023 at 4:49 PM, gr5 said:

    Oh!  Okay.  A picture of the core would be very helpful.  The heater block can be threaded higher or lower on the nozzle.  That shouldn't change things.  Are both printcore's made by Ultimaker or is one a 3rd party print core?  maybe from 3dsolex?  3dsolex print cores have a red circuit board.  Ultimaker's have a white circuit board.

     

    Your printer should have come with a minimum of 2 AA 0.4 cores and 1 BB 0.4 core.  Presumably there is a spare core you haven't been using.

     

    Yep, official Ultimaker PrintCore. What seems to be treaded lower than it should, is the brass nozzle, the thing you can change on other 3d printing brand, not the heater in my case, I thing.

     

    Indeed, it was delivered with the starter bundle, but I even bough from scratch 1 other AA 0.4 and BB 0.4 and I'm glad I did : I've had so many troubles with theses PrintCore, especially BB using the Ultimaler official PVA...

     

    Not using Solex3D but I'm really want to, IIRC you're involved in this brand ? My local supplied just got them for tests and they're really happy so far : less clogging, being able to change the nozzle diameter... But unfortunately, my company is now asking to use RSPro in priority and they don't sell Solex3D 😞

     

    On 3/24/2023 at 4:51 PM, gr5 said:

    Also realize that printcores are considered a "consumable" by ultimaker.  Similar to filament.  The cost of printcores is much lower than filament.  Ultimaker keeps the price of printcores as low as possible.  I think almost zero profit on printcores.

     

    I'm not sure I understood : Ultimaker PrintCore are, on the contrary, pretty expensive, and more than filament : it's about 100€ for a AA / BB, and about 350€ for a CC. Filament is about 45-55€ for 750g. This not very comparable though, haha.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    If a typical printcore lasts for 10 spools of filament (it should last much longer) than the printcore is cheaper.  If you have to buy a printcore with each spool of filament then yes printcores cost more.

     

    So when I say they are "cheaper" I mean cheaper per part printed.  Cheaper per day.  Cheaper per year.  Cheaper per kg of plastic printed.  For every kg of plastic printed, you will spend more money on filament than printcores (hopefully!).

     

    BB cores are a problem because PVA is a problem.  Just keeping the PVA at normal print temperatures for a few minutes (letting it sit in the core and not print right away) causes the PVA to slowly caramelize.  It turns brown and gets more sticky and more hard.  More viscous.  BB cores have to be cleaned more often.  Especially if you aren't using them.  Every time you use only the left core but you do active leveling that BB core gets hot for active leveling and is slowly more likely to get clogged.

     

    The recommended solution is called "hot and cold pulls".  You can do this from the menu on the S3/S5/S7 printers.

     

    A better solution would be to only level cores needed for the current print.

     

    I'd really like to see a photo of the defective printcore.  Showing the thread issue.

     

    Yes I was a reseller of 3dsolex printcores but I am shutting down my store and only sell what is left in stock (all the printcores sold fast - I mostly have nozzles for Ultimaker 2 printers).  I now have less than one sale per month which is how I like it (less work now that I am retired).  🙂

     

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    Yup, I practice Hot et Cold Pull quite often since, as you said, PVA is quite a pain. I'll switch to BVOH, it has better feedback, did you try it yourself ? I've posted some questions and asked for advices here, if you have a pair of minutes

     

    Regarding the photos, i'm really having difficulties to find them back right now, changed my phone, my PC, haha. They're normally somewhere in my mails IIRC, I had to take photos for my local customer services and I don't have the printcore itself anymore as they accepted to change it for free since they also consider it to be defective. But they also mention that it could be because of a material overpressure that might lead to this consequence : I don't see how but they're the experts ^^ 

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height
    On 3/24/2023 at 10:12 AM, Javier_M said:

    I have a problem with the printer because when doing the automatic leveling it fails and says that the two printcores are at the same height, I have tried to calibrate it with the switch and it continues to give the same error, I changed the printcores and the protective rubber, I thought In cleaning the sensor contacts and the print cores and even replacing the sensor, would there be any option to deactivate the automatic leveling or to solve this error with some firmware?

    The bed leveling cannot be disabled by the user. This is for a reason: your first layers will almost always be worse. Really. 

     

    @Javier_M What is the exact error that you see on the screen? If it says "same height detected" or something similar, it is almost always due to a nozzle switching failure. It simply probes twice with the right or with the left nozzle.

    What should happen is this:

    The first two probes are done from a large distance, and take quite long. The first is done with the right cosr (right core should be lowered) and the 2nd with the left core (right core should be raised). Then the grid probing is started, and should be done with the left nozzle (right nozzle is still raised). Please observe if nozzle switching is happening according to the description.

     

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height
    20 hours ago, tomnagel said:

    El usuario no puede desactivar la nivelación de la cama. Esto es por una razón: tus primeras capas casi siempre serán peores. En realidad. 

     

    @Javier_M ¿Cuál es el error exacto que ves en la pantalla? Si dice "misma altura detectada" o algo similar, casi siempre se debe a una falla en el cambio de boquilla. Simplemente palpa dos veces con la boquilla derecha o con la izquierda.

    Lo que debe pasar es esto:

    Los dos primeros sondeos se realizan desde una gran distancia y tardan bastante. La primera se hace con el core derecho (se debe bajar el core derecho) y la segunda con el core izquierdo (se debe levantar el core derecho). Luego se inicia el sondeo de la rejilla, y debe hacerse con la boquilla izquierda (la boquilla derecha aún está levantada). Observe si el cambio de boquilla se produce de acuerdo con la descripción.

     

    Hello, this error was finally solved by contacting Ultimaker technical support, the one I have right now is this: The nozzle displacement test on the axis has failed.

    Check the nozzle and platform and try again.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    I posted above.  Here is the link: https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/43173-problem-with-print-cores-at-the-same-height/?do=findComment&comment=320605

     

     

    Which of those 3 failures do you have?

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    Hi, I had similar problems with my printer. After printing a spiral print the error occurred. The cause seemed to be the collection of a layer of glassy like filament on the extruder. With this removed things were back to normal again. The spiral mode results in far less lifting, so any residue on the tip collects and bakes.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    Ah.  So removing the gunk on the *outside* of the nozzle tip helped?

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Problem with Print cores at the same height

    That was the one, yes. Good that this thread was here. Helped me to find some of the problems.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now
    • Our picks

      • UltiMaker Cura 5.7 stable released
        Cura 5.7 is here and it brings a handy new workflow improvement when using Thingiverse and Cura together, as well as additional capabilities for Method series printers, and a powerful way of sharing print settings using new printer-agnostic project files! Read on to find out about all of these improvements and more. 
         
          • Like
        • 18 replies
      • S-Line Firmware 8.3.0 was released Nov. 20th on the "Latest" firmware branch.
        (Sorry, was out of office when this released)

        This update is for...
        All UltiMaker S series  
        New features
         
        Temperature status. During print preparation, the temperatures of the print cores and build plate will be shown on the display. This gives a better indication of the progress and remaining wait time. Save log files in paused state. It is now possible to save the printer's log files to USB if the currently active print job is paused. Previously, the Dump logs to USB option was only enabled if the printer was in idle state. Confirm print removal via Digital Factory. If the printer is connected to the Digital Factory, it is now possible to confirm the removal of a previous print job via the Digital Factory interface. This is useful in situations where the build plate is clear, but the operator forgot to select Confirm removal on the printer’s display. Visit this page for more information about this feature.
          • Like
        • 0 replies
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...