Is Vase Mode bugged=

[TonyCOD 0]

Hi, i was slicing a piece from a famous modeller (dont know if i can name it)m its 100% modelled to be sliced in vase mode, but in Cura appears the error shown in the picture, i tried different model (also modelled by me) and every piece shows that weird glitch. In others slicers (P. slicer S. Slicer. I. Slicer) it works without glitches. Also in Qidi Slicer (a fork of Cura) the same error appears. Am i missing something or a bug is there? any help is appreciated!!!! 

[gr5 2,187]

I assume you are talking about those red lines?  That looks very wrong.

 

Can you share the model?  Assuming not, install the mesh tools.

 

Cura has an amazing plugin to test your model to see if something is wrong with it and can repair a very few of the many potential problems:
In the upper right corner of Cura click "marketplace" and make sure you are on the "plugins" tab and install "Mesh Tools".  Then restart Cura.  Now right click on your model, choose "mesh tools" and first choose
"check mesh"

 

I think those red lines have to do with holes in the mesh.

 

A quick hack-fix - since they all seem to be on one layer, play with your layer height and initial layer height.  First try larger layer heights to see if you can have all the slices skip over that bad layer.  Alternatively play with initial layer height.

[TonyCOD 0]

Yeah, the mesh have a ton of errors, i will try the Mesh Tool that you suggested!

[gr5 2,187]

The mesh plugin isn't great at fixing meshes.  You could try meshlab.  It's free.

 

I think there are some free web services that do it as well.

 

Or you could ask the original designer to replace any missing surfaces.

[GregValiant 1,283]

Hello.  I thought I'd butt in as I have a different take on this.

The 5.x versions of Cura are substantially different when it come to Spiralize.  Those crossing strings you see are actual extrusions as 5.x tries to complete a lap around the model in one continuous extrusion even though the part is developing "islands" on different layers.

When you enable Spiralize in Cur 5.x it automatically enabled "Remove all Holes".  You might want to try disabling "Remove all Holes" while leaving Spiralize turned on and see how the slice looks.

 

If the above suggestion doesn't work then I would advise to install Cura 4.13.1 and see if it does a better job.  If the models were designed for Spiralize then the earlier version might work well for you.

 

A lot of Airplane parts show errors as they are comprised of single sided surfaces for their internal ribbing.  Whether it is a boat hull or a airplane part I think you should trust that the "well known modeler" got it right for the software that was available at the time the piece was designed.

 

[TonyCOD 0]

8 hours ago, GregValiant said:

Hello.  I thought I'd butt in as I have a different take on this.

The 5.x versions of Cura are substantially different when it come to Spiralize.  Those crossing strings you see are actual extrusions as 5.x tries to complete a lap around the model in one continuous extrusion even though the part is developing "islands" on different layers.

When you enable Spiralize in Cur 5.x it automatically enabled "Remove all Holes".  You might want to try disabling "Remove all Holes" while leaving Spiralize turned on and see how the slice looks.

 

If the above suggestion doesn't work then I would advise to install Cura 4.13.1 and see if it does a better job.  If the models were designed for Spiralize then the earlier version might work well for you.

 

A lot of Airplane parts show errors as they are comprised of single sided surfaces for their internal ribbing.  Whether it is a boat hull or a airplane part I think you should trust that the "well known modeler" got it right for the software that was available at the time the piece was designed.

 

interesting, already tried to disable "remove holes" but it does not work anyway. thanks for the suggestion, probably i wil roll back to 4.13.1

[ahoeben 1,955]

You don't have to "roll back". You can install and use 4.13 and 5.x side-by-side.

[TonyCOD 0]

4.13 show glitches too. I tried to pinpoint the problem modelling something myself. In one version there is a tube protruding out of the model in another one its deleted and patched. The last one can be sliced no problem the other one show the glitches. Maybe this can help? i checked and re-checked, slicing both models results in a closed curve with no islands

01_BAD.stl 01_GOOD.stl

[GregValiant 1,283]

That front overhang must be supported and since the supports are not attached to the model it is a problem because by definition the support structure is an island.

This is my impression.  I used 4.13.1.  Travel moves are turned on.

 

This is in 5.3.1 with no supports.

 

GV_GOOD.3mf

 

If that inlet area on the front is not supported then that overhang won't print correctly.  It could be bridged (maybe) but it would be straight.  You can't print curves over air.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by GregValiant

[TonyCOD 0]

Good hypothesis but still nothing, tried to delete that feature and patch it but it still does not work 😞

Patched.stl

[GregValiant 1,283]

That last model has serious problems.  I think something got flipped inside-out as the lower half of the model doesn't show up in the preview, but the support does.

[TonyCOD 0]

on mine there is not that half model missing problem (latest cura)

[gr5 2,187]

I downloaded and looked at the most recent STL, "Patched.stl" and it looks pretty bad. There's no bottom to the model.  Even if you are printing in spiralize mode you still need a manifold part.  Cura expects a manifold part or it will do unexpected things.

 

One can divide CAD software into two types: those that make pictures (scenes) and movies, those that make real parts.  For example sketchup, blender are good at the first thing - making great computer generated graphics, movies, etc.  They don't care about infinitely thin objects as long as you only look at things from one angle.   Such as the walls of rooms in a house - they don't need thickness as we won't be viewing the walls from inside where the studs are.

 

Whereas the other type of CAD (e.g. design spark mechanical, tinkercad, freecad, onshape, fusion360) only let you make manifold parts (mostly - through normal usage - but if you are an expert sometimes you can trick them to create non manifold surfaces but it's just very rare).  In these CAD software you do things like extrude surfaces, intersect 3d volumes.  You can't cut open a surface to see the inside - if you drill a hole through it, the software gives the hole walls automatically.

 

Anyway your STL is not manifold.  Look up the word if you aren't sure what it means.  And the software you are using doesn't enforce this so it's extra work.  There are tools in sketchup and blender to help you.  You can google about "making parts manifold" for your particular cad software.

 

IN ADDITION, STL files contain only a list of triangles and every triangle has a "normal" which specifies which is the inside and which is the outside.  Every triangle specifies which side of the triangle floating in 3d space faces air and which side faces "plastic".  Blender and sketchup also assign this when you design things and have their own way of helping you know if you have walls that are inside-out.  Cura uses this information to help it slice so if you get it wrong, cura will often get confused.  The other type of CAD doesn't need to show you which side is in or out - it just takes care of this automatically since all objects are manifold.  If you do a "sectional view" where it slices the part open it shows the inside as solid.

 

google "view and change normals" for your cad software.

[TonyCOD 0]

still not working

01_M_Closed.stl

[TonyCOD 0]

this is the model in STEP AP203, feel free to mesh it and try vase mode, maybe with this someone can solve it, thanks

01_M_Closed_Step AP203.zip

[GregValiant 1,283]

This area is a problem.  I don't know if you intended to have that "tube" there, but it is an island on the lower layers.

If the gusset connecting it to the main model was 2 line widths wide it would probably spiralize.  Because it is only a single line width then the toolpath goes out the gusset, extrudes the tube, and then travels back to the layer start.

 

I've taken the liberty to delete the tube and gusset.  This is in 5.3.1 and I think it looks good (but it isn't my model).

 

 

GV M_Closed.stl

[TonyCOD 0]

yeah, that is the problematic area. I want to understand why the internal folds 0.05mm thick are spiralized but that one wide 0.48mm its not...

[GregValiant 1,283]

I don't have the tools to check the internal structure, but I measure that gusset at .4mm thick.  A Cura Minimum Line Width with a .4 nozzle is .34 so it can't go "out and back" and so won't sprialize that.

 

This is a little test I did trying to duplicate what you have there.  The gusset/web is .80 thick and it spiralized as it should.

 

[TonyCOD 0]

yeah, but the internal webbing is 0.05mm, wayyyyyy under the line width and its spiralized correctly so the argument really does not stand up in my opinion

[mrender 26]

Try this one, might need to scale it to 10%.

MeshBody1.stl

[GregValiant 1,283]

Are you happy with that design?  I thought it looked really good in both 4.13.1 and 5.3.1.

 

Having to support that front overhang is still an issue but with supports turned off, that model spiralizes very nicely.

[TonyCOD 0]

9 hours ago, GregValiant said:

Are you happy with that design?  I thought it looked really good in both 4.13.1 and 5.3.1.

 

Having to support that front overhang is still an issue but with supports turned off, that model spiralizes very nicely.

No, im not happy, i want to know what can be spiralized and what not, that one was only an example, what are the rules?

It looks like that the perimeters are a closed curve its not sufficient, others rulse are into play.

The piece i brought to the table was only for troubleshooting. I also tried different pieces from 3dlab and eclipson (sadly i can not share for obvious reasons) and they all have those weird travel movements 😞

 

[mrender 26]

A basic problem with your example model is that it doesn't shell well.  Intersections occur which create problems with the geometry,  meshing compounds this as the aproximations create holes and very close vertices. Presumably the jug model is having similar issues.  The models need to be shelled in the modeller before small details are added.  Being able to print from a step file would help alot too.

[ahoeben 1,955]

1 hour ago, TonyCOD said:

i want to know what can be spiralized and what not,

You have to be able to draw the cross-section as one continuous curve. If you think of drawing the layer with a pen, you should be able to draw the entire layer without lifting the pen off the paper and without backtracking over a previously drawn line (and without bending/folding the paper).

 

2 minutes ago, mrender said:

Being able to print from a step file would help alot too.

I don't see how that would change anything with regards to spiralizing.

[mrender 26]

for exactly the same reason you say..continous geometry.  Meshing, shelling/spiraling and interpolation for gcode creates a mess!