Was printing perfectly, did a firmware update...now printing horribly

[Dragon41673 0]

I know I will miss something when typing this up for the first time, so please watch for an edit, however I will do my best to be as detailed as possible…

 

I’m at my wits end here. I’m by far no expert, so please speak plainly as I haven’t been doing this as long as some of you guys who are likely the ones I need help from.

 

Here’s what I have…

 

Ender-3 S1
Stock setup with Silicone spacers and aluminum wheels
MRiscoc Professional Firmware (was running 4-2023 version, now on 8-2023 version)
eSun Filament, printing at 210 first layer, 205 all layers after that – Confirmed with Temp Tower these settings were good.

 

Ender-3 V2
BL Touch
Creality Filament Runout Sensor
Creality Direct Drive (older stacked unit, not Sprite)
Creality Spring Steel Print Surface
Silicone Spacers
Aluminum Wheels
MRiscoc Professional Firmware (was running the 10-2022 version, now on 8-2023 version)
Sunlu Filament, printing at 210 first layer, 205 all layers after that – Confirmed with Temp Tower these settings were good. (Used to just be 205 straight and 50 bed temp when I had the glass plate on them)

 

What happened is I did a Firmware update to both printers…like a morron because if it’s not broke don’t fix it…from the previous listed one to the current listed ones above. Ever since I did this update…any model that I print which has been sitting on a SD card since it was sliced, is now printing for crap.

 

The S1 was an incremental update, so all of the following should not have happened, but I would have expected a little issue with the V2’s due to the firmware age, but holy cow it’s just horrible.

 

I know it’s not the model on the cards. I’ve printed ALL of these models before, and all have come out perfect as I had both printers dialed in to perfection.

 

The files for the Ender-3 V2 were done in Cura 4.13 originally.

 

The files for the Ender-3 S1 were done in Creality’s Cura 4.8.2 because at the time I got them I was having printing issues trying to get Cura 5.0 to recognize the printer and filament being used…and Creality’s Cura resolved that completely, so I just stuck with it.

 

All files are sliced at 0.2mm.

 

To diagnose what is going on I did the following…
#1 - I re-leveled the beds I cannot count how many times.
#2 - I trammed against the beds with the X-Axis gantry.
#3 - I cleaned out the extruders.
#4 - I replaced the nozzles with brand new 0.4mm Nozzles.
#5 - I did e-steps to confirm it’s not either under extrusion or over extrusion (but it definitely looks like it).
#6 – Got brand new rolls of filament
#7 – For the V2 files originally sliced in Cura 4.13, I tried both Creality Cura 4.8.2 and Cura 5.3.1 with no success.
#8 – For the S1 files originally sliced in Creality Cura 4.8.2, I tried both Cura 4.13 and Cura 5.3.1 with no success as they now have an updated list of Materials.
#9 – For both…I even downloaded Cura 5.4 and adjusted Flow Equalization Ratio to 0 as recommended by others which helped a little tiny bit but again did not fix the issue.
#10 - I have also rolled back to the previous version of Firmware that WAS working, which did NOT fix the problem either.

 

I’ve gone so far as to use Creality’s Cura 4.8.2 program with BASE profiles (adjusted the V2 due to the Direct Drive to a 1mm retraction, and also tried 0.8mm). Doing this presented me with some better prints but still showed these problems to a certain degree.

 

I’ve also gone back and played with the Z-Seam, from Smart Hide, to just plain old Hide, sometimes that will help, but not every time.

 

Pictures attached are the worst of the worst…which show what’s going on. Gaps in the layers which always happens on the REAR of the prints, and once in a while a file or two will also be on the side of the print…but not all files show this. Again…these were printing perfectly before the Firmware updates.

 

I would completely agree that it would be humidity…but, the issue isn’t everywhere on the print, it’s only on the back side of the print, and once in a great while the left as mentioned before.

 

Plus…when I repeat the print, the problem is EXACTLY in the same spot EVERY time, almost like an exact clone of the previous print.

 

I’ve asked for help in the Professional Firmware group on Facebook…but did not resolve the issues…so I’m reaching out here. 

 

Has anyone seen this before just by updating firmware? It MAKES NO SENSE to me why this would happen if my prints were perfect before, and now print horribly just by installing a new firmware update.

 

Thank you

[GregValiant 1,110]

Rule  #4:

"Never upgrade an operating system" - Me

 

Since you broke rule #4 I think you will need to find the things that are different in the new firmware when compared to the old firmware.

• Does the new firmware support Linear Advance?  Is it turned on in the firmware by default?
• Could there be some other default in the printer that doesn't agree with the E values in the gcode?
• Is the printer looking for a command in the gcode (like for Linear Advance) and it isn't there?
  • Or the alternate - is there a command in the gcode that the new firmware truly hates.
• Are new gcode files printing OK?

[Slashee_the_Cow 22]

10 hours ago, GregValiant said:

Rule  #4:

"Never upgrade an operating system" - Me

Entirely true if you have the option to upgrade to Windows 11.

 

Although I must admit to breaking this rule, when I pulled my printer out of the box, I did upgrade to the newest firmware. I haven't updated since, but I only pulled the thing out of the box a few weeks ago, so give it time.

@GregValiant Which rule is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?"

[GregValiant 1,110]

I don't know if I've ever put these together in one place.

These are "Greg's Rules" as compiled over the course of 72 years spinning through space on this ball:

1. When you're dumb, you suffer and the amount of suffering is directly proportional to the amount of dumbness displayed.
2. Everything is a POS.
3. Murphy was an optimist.

4. Never upgrade an operating system.

5. The quality of the carpentry is inversely proportional to the width of the moldings used to hide the mistakes.
6. If it ain't broke, don't fix it but if you must, then fix it till you break it.
7. "Ambidextrous" means it won't work either way.
8. "Universal" means you'll need a cutting torch and a sledge hammer to get it to work.
9. Everything affects everything.
10. "Tap Extractors" don't and "Easy Outs" aren't.

[Dragon41673 0]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:50 AM, GregValiant said:

Rule  #4:

"Never upgrade an operating system" - Me

 

Since you broke rule #4 I think you will need to find the things that are different in the new firmware when compared to the old firmware.

• Does the new firmware support Linear Advance?  Is it turned on in the firmware by default?
• Could there be some other default in the printer that doesn't agree with the E values in the gcode?
• Is the printer looking for a command in the gcode (like for Linear Advance) and it isn't there?
  • Or the alternate - is there a command in the gcode that the new firmware truly hates.
• Are new gcode files printing OK?

Sorry Greg...even though I have it set to notify me, I wasn't getting notifications. I came on today hoping I was just not getting notifications.

 

Let me look into this later today as my mom needs me to come down to help her (dad died 2 years so she's all by herself now) but yeah, never updating forward again...but to at least answer two...

 

New files are printing the same way, was one of the first things I did.

 

I do not believe linear advance is part of the firmware, but I will check ASAP.

[Slashee_the_Cow 22]

2 minutes ago, Dragon41673 said:

but yeah, never updating forward again

On an Ender-3 you can downgrade firmware if you want. All that matters is that the filename of the firmware on the SD card is different to the filename of the last time you changed the firmware.

[Dragon41673 0]

4 minutes ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

On an Ender-3 you can downgrade firmware if you want. All that matters is that the filename of the firmware on the SD card is different to the filename of the last time you changed the firmware.

Yep...as mentioned on troubleshooting step #10 I did try going back to the previous firmware I wasn't having issues with and that did not resolve the problem.

[Dragon41673 0]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:50 AM, GregValiant said:

Rule  #4:

"Never upgrade an operating system" - Me

 

Since you broke rule #4 I think you will need to find the things that are different in the new firmware when compared to the old firmware.

• Does the new firmware support Linear Advance?  Is it turned on in the firmware by default?
• Could there be some other default in the printer that doesn't agree with the E values in the gcode?
• Is the printer looking for a command in the gcode (like for Linear Advance) and it isn't there?
  • Or the alternate - is there a command in the gcode that the new firmware truly hates.
• Are new gcode files printing OK?

Confirmed Linear Advance is not in this edition of the firmware.

[Dragon41673 0]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:50 AM, GregValiant said:

 

• Could there be some other default in the printer that doesn't agree with the E values in the gcode?

I looked, and honestly don't think so. I don't really see anything.

• Is the printer looking for a command in the gcode (like for Linear Advance) and it isn't there?
  • Or the alternate - is there a command in the gcode that the new firmware truly hates.

Same answer as above. Not really seeing anything wrong, but I'm also not the programmer of the firmware.

• Are new gcode files printing OK?

Nope ..same problem with new files. I'll have a comparison print in about 5 hours between Creality Cura 4.8.2 (which was working), Cura 5.1, and Cura 5.4.

 

[GregValiant 1,110]

"Could there be some other default in the printer that doesn't agree with the E values in the gcode?"

 

Yes.  If Cura is set to normal extrusion and the printer is set to volumetric then the printer will interpret the E values incorrectly (mm³ instead of linear mm).  Using volumetric is fine and works well if you happen to have one printer that uses 1.75 filament and another that uses 2.85 filament and you don't know which machine will be scheduled to print the gcode file.  Both Cura and the printer(s) must be configured the same whether both are configured for conventional or for volumetric.

My older Ender has the setting under "Control / Filament" and then "E in mm³".  It is typically turned off.  The setting in Cura is in the Machine Settings and is under the Gcode Flavor which is typically "Marlin" and not "Marlin (volumetric)".

 

But your prints have large areas that look fine and if "volumetric" was the problem then all areas of the print would be consistently bad.  The same would happen if the filament size was wrong.  In addition, the gcodes were fine the first time around.

 

Do you happen to have Z-hops enabled in those files?  If the printer is extruding OK but hanging up on Z-hops you could sort of get something that looks like that as the Z binding makes for inconsistent layer heights.

 

The "back is bad but the front is OK" is odd as well.  It's almost like it prints OK going left to right but poorly when going right to left.  If only that single problem was being considered here...I'd check the trolley wheels again.  Just because they are new doesn't mean they are all good.  It also has the simplicity of leaving the hot end/extruder combination and the firmware off the hook.  But what are the chances of two printers having that exact same issue?

Edited August 27 by GregValiant

[Slashee_the_Cow 22]

15 minutes ago, GregValiant said:

But what are the chances of two printers having that exact same issue?

Depends on if they're anything like camera flashes, camera lenses, Playstation controllers or wireless earbuds.

[Dragon41673 0]

Sorry for the delay everyone...I've attached the files and titled the images as per the slicer used, and while the slicers have as closely exact settings as I can get so the comparison is apples to apples...there's obviously some that I cannot change due to the version of software used...

I also did a side by side with Cura 5.4 using Z-Seam Sharpest Corner / Smart Hiding and Z-Seam Sharpest Corner / Hide Seam and the results were different which is very odd to me.

All of these prints were done on the SAME machine to keep things isolated.

 

Edited August 29 by Dragon41673

[Dragon41673 0]

Also...just for giggles, I tried Prusaslicer (I know it's a dirty word here), but I needed something else to try, and with barely any changes to the base profile, this was the results which is darn near perfect...

I don't want to use Prusa, I want to use Cura, but this just isn't making sense to me

[Dragon41673 0]

Also...is there any way to force this forum to send me a notice I have a reply? I'm subscribed to this thread. I've even unsubscribed and re-subscribed and I'm not getting emails. They aren't in my spam folder either.

[Slashee_the_Cow 22]

6 hours ago, Dragon41673 said:

Also...is there any way to force this forum to send me a notice I have a reply? I'm subscribed to this thread. I've even unsubscribed and re-subscribed and I'm not getting emails. They aren't in my spam folder either.

Click the notification bell icon at the top right, open notification settings (should be at the top right of that popup) then open "Followed Content" and then under the "Followed Content" heading inside there should be checkboxes for notifications and emails, just tick emails and it should save automatically.

[Torgeir 228]

Hi @Dragon41673,

 

Sorry to see this mishap. Sometimes a firmware updated can indeed go wrong..

 

The pictures you've added tells a story -and this is a "special" kind of under extrusion IMO, (As @GregValiant mentioned)!

As you've explain, this issues occur exactly at same places over and over..

I'll suggest that the feeder cannot deliver the "commanded flow" at those points due to too lo current to the feeder stepper during printing in such areas. The interesting question is, does your main PCB have a manual current setting or does it have software current settings?

 

The firmware versions have a huge gap in between, sometimes can be an issue..

 

It would be much easier to evaluate the problem if you share the project file of this object.

 

Edith. It would be very interesting to see your model printed with your printer in "Surface" mode.

 

Thanks

Torgeir

Edited August 30 by Torgeir
Another question.

[Dragon41673 0]

20 hours ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

Click the notification bell icon at the top right, open notification settings (should be at the top right of that popup) then open "Followed Content" and then under the "Followed Content" heading inside there should be checkboxes for notifications and emails, just tick emails and it should save automatically.

Yeah...I did that, still not getting emails even though I have it set to email me when new replies come in...but thank you!

[Dragon41673 0]

5 hours ago, Torgeir said:

Hi @Dragon41673,

 

Sorry to see this mishap. Sometimes a firmware updated can indeed go wrong..

 

The pictures you've added tells a story -and this is a "special" kind of under extrusion IMO, (As @GregValiant mentioned)!

As you've explain, this issues occur exactly at same places over and over..

I'll suggest that the feeder cannot deliver the "commanded flow" at those points due to too lo current to the feeder stepper during printing in such areas. The interesting question is, does your main PCB have a manual current setting or does it have software current settings?

 

The firmware versions have a huge gap in between, sometimes can be an issue..

 

It would be much easier to evaluate the problem if you share the project file of this object.

 

Edith. It would be very interesting to see your model printed with your printer in "Surface" mode.

 

Thanks

Torgeir

Yeah...super odd. I've even tried (today in fact) to adjust the flow in Cura and that's not helping either. Still getting the exact same results.

As for the current setting...I'm unsure. It's a stock Creality mainboard for the S1 (standard version, not the pro).

 

Here's the link to the Firmware.

https://github.com/mriscoc/Ender3V2S1/releases/tag/20230805

I was using a previous version & everything was just fine. The specific file I'm using is the Ender3S1-F4-20230809.bin version...so no linear advance, no UBL, just nothing special. I specifically have been choosing the most basic version just to avoid all this! LOL

What's "Surface" mode?

[Slashee_the_Cow 22]

36 minutes ago, Dragon41673 said:

What's "Surface" mode?

It's under Special Modes. If there's any unclosed loops in your model (like a single straight wall sticking out to nowhere or something), by default Cura will ignore it. If you set Surface Mode to "Surface", Cura will print any vertical sections that aren't closed loops, but it also won't print any horizontal sections (they're considered polygons which aren't closed). If you set it to "Both", Cura will print everything, including unclosed loops and horizontal surfaces.

 

Also, if you have Experimental > Enable Coasting turned on, try turning it off. Based on your pictures it looks like it's underextruding a bit before the Z seam.

Edited August 31 by Slashee_the_Cow
Added info about coasting

[Slashee_the_Cow 22]

1 hour ago, Dragon41673 said:

Yeah...I did that, still not getting emails even though I have it set to email me when new replies come in...but thank you!

Stupid question I'm obligated to ask: is the email address you have set correct?

 

Cause if it is, then you probably need @gr5 to step in here.

[Torgeir 228]

Hi @Dragon41673,

 

Surface mode is simply printing the walls (inner and outer) without top/bottom and no infill.

This mode normally print the outer and inner side nicely and takes "lot of" pressure out of the feeder..

 

As you have this issue with your printer, -use Cura 4.13.1 -the best stable version of the Cura slicer!

 

Prusa slicer is not a dirty word in here.  In addition to Cura, that I've a number of versions of -on my PC. I'm also using S3D (Simplify 3D Slicer). This S3D slicer are used to monitor gcode files just in order to spot an error if there's any, a super nice tool for this issue!

 

I can see there's "some" signs on the model you're printed with the Prusa slicer -and this is why I'd ask to see your project file of your print. Just save your model as a project file (*3mf). This save us/you lots of time and may find a solution to your problem.

 

I'll suppose that this last pictures is printed with the same firmware version as printed with Cura above, right?

 

Thanks

Torgeir

 

 

[Dragon41673 0]

14 hours ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

It's under Special Modes. If there's any unclosed loops in your model (like a single straight wall sticking out to nowhere or something), by default Cura will ignore it. If you set Surface Mode to "Surface", Cura will print any vertical sections that aren't closed loops, but it also won't print any horizontal sections (they're considered polygons which aren't closed). If you set it to "Both", Cura will print everything, including unclosed loops and horizontal surfaces.

 

Also, if you have Experimental > Enable Coasting turned on, try turning it off. Based on your pictures it looks like it's underextruding a bit before the Z seam.

Ah ok...should I try a "Surface" print or no?

As for Coasting, it is off...I don't have anything selected in experimental.

[Dragon41673 0]

4 hours ago, Torgeir said:

Hi @Dragon41673,

 

Surface mode is simply printing the walls (inner and outer) without top/bottom and no infill.

This mode normally print the outer and inner side nicely and takes "lot of" pressure out of the feeder..

 

As you have this issue with your printer, -use Cura 4.13.1 -the best stable version of the Cura slicer!

 

Prusa slicer is not a dirty word in here.  In addition to Cura, that I've a number of versions of -on my PC. I'm also using S3D (Simplify 3D Slicer). This S3D slicer are used to monitor gcode files just in order to spot an error if there's any, a super nice tool for this issue!

 

I can see there's "some" signs on the model you're printed with the Prusa slicer -and this is why I'd ask to see your project file of your print. Just save your model as a project file (*3mf). This save us/you lots of time and may find a solution to your problem.

 

I'll suppose that this last pictures is printed with the same firmware version as printed with Cura above, right?

 

Thanks

Torgeir

 

 

What version of Cura would you like the *3mf file in...or does that not matter?

As for the firmware / version of Cura...yep, they are all printed on the new firmware, and I can replicate the results on my other S1 printer as well...so something has definitely changed, and I cannot get my previous printing ability back by rolling back on firmware version...as I've tried a few times. I wish I could, I'd just roll back and keep on keepin' on with what was working.

[Torgeir 228]

Hi @Dragon41673,

 

Sure, try to print in "Surface" mode, but do not use "Both" function..

 

 

If you have a project file from Cura 4.13.1 it's better.

 

In case you have a project file from before the firmware change it is of interest..

 

 

Thanks

Torgeir

 

Edited August 31 by Torgeir
More questions.

[Dragon41673 0]

I have a Gcode file from before the firmware update which was printing perfectly, but not a *3mf file...would that help at all? They were done on Creality Cura 4.8 (4.8.2 if I recall correctly).