Any reason for this

[Bumb3bum 0]

For the record the second one was the one that printed on supports and I have absolutely no idea why it's happening especially when printing on supports so it's not to do with bed adhesion l, if anyone would help that would be great (ender 3 v3 se, but general advice would be applicable)

[gr5 2,224]

The print in the upper photo looks quite good.  That's the typical quality I see on most 3d printers.

 

The print in the lower photo looks bad.  It is severely underextruded.  The gaps between the filament are more than the amount of filament so you have less than 50% extrusion.  maybe 30% extrusion.  So 70% less than nominal.  This is severe.

 

If you print 3X slower it will help a bit.  I don't know what is causing your underextrusion as there are literally hundreds of causes: feeder issues, filament jammed somewhere, semi clogged nozzle, printing too cold, printing too fast, layer height too thick, bad cooling fan above heat break.  That's an extremely short list of common causes.  People who know your patricular printer will be able to help you much more than I as I've never touched an ender 3 of any type.

[Slashee_the_Cow 409]

3 hours ago, gr5 said:

People who know your patricular printer will be able to help you much more than I as I've never touched an ender 3 of any type.

Someone call for me? I have an E3V3SE. I've never seen underextrusion that bad though. Worst I've seen was some dodgy filament I had running through a Bowden tube from a filament dryer outside my printer's tent, except the filament was so inconsistent it pulled the tube (which was taped to the top bar of the printer) down to a couple of inches from the extruder, and actually managed to pull the filament dryer (on rubber feet) towards the tent... and even then it was still getting about 75% extrusion.

 

I will second @gr5's call for printing slower: most filament spools will have the normal printing speed and temperature listed on them, make sure you're not going above the recommended speed.

 

Other than the usual stuff like make sure your nozzle is clean (if you've never done that, heat up the nozzle and stick the nozzle cleaner that comes with the printer up there a bit to see if anything is caught) I can't think of anything. If you have a Cura project file (.3mf, in Cura get it ready to print then go to File > Save Project) you can post that would help so we can see if there's anything obviously wrong the settings.

[Dustin 160]

it looks like they were printing the other surface on support structure..
This means they will want to work on tuning that.

[GregValiant 1,342]

I'm going to go with Slashee on this one.  Looking through the "first layer over support" the next layer is under-extruded as well.  Looks to be 40 to 50% under-extruded.  A lot of extrusions weren't staying where they were put.

@Bumb3bum - Along with the obvious "calibrate the E-steps" check in the Cura Machine Settings and make sure you don't have the Gcode Flavor set to "Marlin Volumetric".  Volumetric works fine if both Cura and the printer are set for it.  If only one is set that way then the extrusion volume won't be read correctly by the printer.

 

 

 

[Bumb3bum 0]

I just checked back on this, thanks for all the suggestions, I will have to try them but it's kinda late right now where I live so will try them tomorrow,

 

But if anyone is curious, the thing that confuses me is that they are the same print just taken from different pictures, the top one is facing up like I said and the second was printing practically completely onto supports. I also will give a little background info, the printer is a month old (I think you can guess why) so I doubt it's to do with wear and tear of the printer, and on cura it automatically set the speed to the fastest it could go so I wouldn't be surprised if that's the problem. I can link the file, but I'm there would be little wrong with the model or at least little I could do with it as I downloaded online and printed it. I feel like a right idiot though since I don't know why I chose such an odd way to print it when the other side faces down is clearly better. Anyway I can check back on this after testing some suggestions

 

[Slashee_the_Cow 409]

2 hours ago, Bumb3bum said:

I can link the file, but I'm there would be little wrong with the model or at least little I could do with it as I downloaded online and printed it. I feel like a right idiot though since I don't know why I chose such an odd way to print it when the other side faces down is clearly better.

We don't really want the model file, just the Cura .3mf project file (set it up like you're about to print, then go to File > Save Project) that way we can see what settings you're using. You can also rotate the piece in Cura so that it prints with the best side up using the rotate tool (in the toolbar on the left).

[Bumb3bum 0]

here is the file for anyone curious. 

 

you can tell me otherwise if I'm wrong (probably am) but i feel this a printer or printer speed issue. if anyone has any good test prints to isolate the problem would be greatly appreciated 

main body 2.3mf

[Slashee_the_Cow 409]

Probably a speed problem: you have it set to the default (180mm/s, which is also the default speed in Creality Print, despite them advertising it can do 250mm/s 😛)

Most PLA goes down best about 60mm/s. Remember that by default if you just change the "print speed" setting it will use that value for the infill and half that for everything else. If it's trying to lay down infill far too quickly it'll probably just drag a blob of filament around quickly and barely leave anything - that's a recipe for a bad quality surface because it doesn't have a properly spaced and height infill to go on top of.

 

You can experiment, but to be safe, I'd set the speed for everything (except the first layer) to 60mm/s. First layer should probably be about half that. Also turn down the travel speed (I use about half the default) because the first few things I printed with my E3V3SE I wondered why some bits of them were stretched and saw that it was speeding away from them so quickly it actually pulled the filament it had just put down with it.

 

For a test print: there's a Cura plugin (open "Marketplace" in the top right to find them) called AutoTowers Generator. It has built in (or you can get it to make custom ones if you install another program it uses to generate them) calibration towers for most everything you'd want to try, including speed. It'll print one tower with different parts at different speeds so you can see if there's a difference - it's not the best test for your situation, but you can see if there's any obvious ringing or anything.

 

Honestly though, the best test print? Whatever you're having trouble with. By far the best way to see if it fixes your problem 🙂.

 

One other thing I noticed in your print settings: you have the support overhang angle set to 75°. I'm sure @GregValiant is happy to come in and show you the maths, but that's generally too steep to be able to pull off. I find the default of 45° a little conservative, I usually run it at 55°, unless there's a big overhang which is just slightly higher than that, in which case I push my luck (although I don't try pushing it very far above 60°).

Edited January 20 by Slashee_the_Cow
fixed typo

[Bumb3bum 0]

okay so i printed it with slower speed and it was far better, the different orientation helped more though i think but i still ran into the same problem of the parts that were completely printed on supports had the same under extrusion were the rest was fine the problem i seem to have found and now can identify is printing on supports. so as thats now narrowed it down slightly more... I'm still confused on why printing on supports has caused the problem 

Edited January 20 by Bumb3bum

[Slashee_the_Cow 409]

Yeah, that's a head scratcher... is it possible some of it is getting too attached to the support interface in coming off with that? When you pull the the support off the interface should just be a plain grid. That would be my next guess anyway.

 

Remember that small scale testing is your friend: only print a bit you're having trouble with to test. If you don't want to have to try editing the model or anything, create a support blocker, use the scale, move and rotate tools to make it big enough to cover the parts of the model you don't want to print, then go into the per model settings, click the third button in the top row (Modify settings for overlaps), set it to a Cutting Mesh and then select the settings so you can turn off everything which is something that prints:

I don't know why it's still does the movements there, but it's hardly the end of the world.

 

Anyway the test I'd try is to turn off Support > Enable Support Interface. The support interface is designed to be easy to remove and leave a clean surface, but you're not getting a clean surface anyway 🙂. Zigzag should be easy enough to remove and the default support density is high enough that it should support a surface fine.

[Bumb3bum 0]

I have realise that when printing large flat surfaces on supports it off gains this texture, at least since I started with my new printer, here is a print I did the day I got my printer, and here is also how this one turned out. (First is old, second and third is new) so there Is a slight difference, but I think that is a consequence of printing flat on supports, idk I could be completely wrong, I am going to check if I have a partial clog when I print the second half and if that comes out differently then I will say.

[GregValiant 1,342]

In order to keep the "first layer over support" from sticking too badly to the support structure, it is necessary to have an air gap.  The airgap means the "first layer above support" doesn't get enough squish.

If you have a true "dual extruder printer", then you can change materials for the supports and interfaces to something incompatible with the model material so the model won't stick to the interface.  The airgap isn't required and the interface can be 100% density.

That appears to be the main advantage of dual extruders.  Water soluble PVA support material would allow you to dissolve the supports.

Those "first layers over support" you have in that model look pretty darn good to me.  With a single extruder printer it really doesn't get any better than that.

[Bumb3bum 0]

5 minutes ago, GregValiant said:

Those "first layers over support" you have in that model look pretty darn good to me.  With a single extruder printer it really doesn't get any better than that.

i mean the first one is perfect id say, i mean that's my point, the second and third picture still have the quality of the original in those places which is not as great. my wonder is should i change the "support roof flow" for those parts as its the extrusion in those parts which are bad.

[Slashee_the_Cow 409]

10 hours ago, Bumb3bum said:

my wonder is should i change the "support roof flow" for those parts as its the extrusion in those parts which are bad.

That'll make the support interface roof thicker, but since you should be using an air gap anyway that would probably just end up less "better quality for what's above it" and more "support roof sticks to model more making it harder to remove and leave bigger scars". For what it's worth, where the texture of the support is left on the model, you can just use a file to smooth it (on PLA, anyway).

 

Frankly short of a spark of imagination it's got me beat - there's no reason I can think of that it would undextrude above support interface. Any chance you could upload a gcode file you've sliced of it in case the underextrusion somehow comes from the slicing, not the hardware?

[Bumb3bum 0]

I noticed spotty bed adhesion of the first layer, could that be doing it, also why is that happening like imagine parts lifting up making it more opaque, my solution so far is upping the bed temp to 70 but that has just started being required. Could both be connected. Anyway why is that happening, fixing one problem at a time lol. Kinda like this picture, I might be able to get a better one if needed.

[Dustin 160]

Thats not spotty first layers.. your nozzle is way too close to the bed.

[Bumb3bum 0]

27 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Thats not spotty first layers.. your nozzle is way too close to the bed.

I'm still a bit inexperienced with setting the z offset, the bed is self leveling. I'll do some more testing 

 

[Bumb3bum 0]

I noticed that my print (whilst trying to find the right z offset) was doing this weird thing were the filament was being like pushed through, them fizzled out then more pushed through, look here, I know there's a lot wrong in this picture but if you focus on the centre parts you will see what I'm talking about. It's not printing a line evenly, but also it does it consistently, why is does it do this?

 

[Bumb3bum 0]

I noticed that my print (whilst trying to find the right z offset) was doing this weird thing were the filament was being like pushed through, them fizzled out then more pushed through, look here, I know there's a lot wrong in this picture but if you focus on the centre parts you will see what I'm talking about. It's not printing a line evenly, but also it does it consistently, why is does it do this?

 

[Slashee_the_Cow 409]

1 hour ago, Bumb3bum said:

I noticed that my print (whilst trying to find the right z offset) was doing this weird thing were the filament was being like pushed through, them fizzled out then more pushed through, look here, I know there's a lot wrong in this picture but if you focus on the centre parts you will see what I'm talking about. It's not printing a line evenly, but also it does it consistently, why is does it do this?

If the nozzle is too low to the bed, the pressure could be building up until it's high enough that it forces itself out, and then it starts building up again instead of constantly flowing like it should.