S5 has constant auto bed leveling issues

[b3_engineering 0]

I just started trying to use our S5 with a 0.6CC core in the left slot and a 0.4BB core in the right slot for support material.  I've been trying to run the XY calibration but it always fails at bed leveling.

 

Here's what happens. The head moves to the back right corner. Then it moves down to the build plate until it makes contact with the right print nozzle. Next it slowly pushes down until it makes contact with the left print nozzle. As soon as it makes contact with the second one the bed drops down about half an inch and then it says the leveling failed. 

 

I have tried:

• manually leveling the build plate
• manually leveling the build plate but leaving more space
• resetting the build plate to the factory position per ultimaker docs.
• running the leveling sensor diagnostics (result is a 2.3)
• cleaning the print nozzles
• disconnecting the front fan

 

Are there any logs I can read through somewhere to learn more information? I'm an EE, is there anything I can measure to learn more about why its failing?

 

I manually disabled leveling and tried to print but I didn't have good bed adhesion. I took out the CC head and it looks clean to me.  I'm going to pull the other one and check it too.

 

Thank you.

 

[gr5 2,176]

1 hour ago, b3_engineering said:

Here's what happens. The head moves to the back right corner. Then it moves down to the build plate until it makes contact with the right print nozzle. Next it slowly pushes down until it makes contact with the left print nozzle. As soon as it makes contact with the second one the bed drops down about half an inch and then it says the leveling failed. 

Are both nozzles hitting the glass at the same time?  I guess not?  That wouldn't make sense I think?

 

So first the right nozzle hits the glass and then does the bed quickly drop down?

 

Only after that it tests the left nozzle?

 

Ideally both tests should stop right when the nozzle hits the bed.  If it keeps pushing for like 3 more seconds then there is a problem.

 

Having a sensor value of 2.3 is excellent.  Anything below I think 8 is good.

 

When the right nozzle is down it should be 1.5mm lower than the left nozzle +/- 0.7mm.

 

You can see what that measured value is by looking in the logs.  You can ssh to the printer if it's in "developer mode".  Or you can just put a flash drive in there and in the menus you can dump the logs to a flash drive and examine them.  Look at the date/time to find the most recent and search for these key words:

 

"peak" and "Preliminary"

 

[b3_engineering 0]

I can ssh in, but wasn't sure where the logs were stored. I didn't see anything in var.

 

Are both nozzles hitting the glass at the same time?  I guess not?  That wouldn't make sense I think?

No the right nozzle hangs lower like you say. It hits the glass first and then the head pushes down on it until the second nozzle hits the glass.

 

So first the right nozzle hits the glass and then does the bed quickly drop down?

No the bed drops shortly after the second nozzle (on the left) makes contact. Then the test fails. So Right nozzle touches glass, the head moves lower until the left nozzle hits the glass, then it drops.

 

[b3_engineering 0]

When the left core is printing, shouldn't the right core be up and out of the way instead of hanging down?  I was wondering if maybe there was a sensor for that, that wasn't working right.

[b3_engineering 0]

Okay here's where it fails in the log. I'm not sure how bed leveling works. I know there's a capacitive sensor, and the metal bed below. But I don't know how it detects the nozzles touching. Is there a little modulated signal going through the heads?  Are they using the heat of the nozzles over the bed at that point?  Just a general capacitive change doesn't seem like enough o be measuring mm but I'm sure I could be wrong 🙂

 

2024-03-14T23:24:53.913325+0000 ultimakersystem-9159ddb29b69428b9884299aa0854caa PrinterService[531]: INF - probingController:191 - Found peak @ 150.000
2024-03-14T23:24:53.921396+0000 ultimakersystem-9159ddb29b69428b9884299aa0854caa PrinterService[531]: INF - probeResultProcessor:74 - 1 list: {0: ProbeReport (nozzle: 0, datetime: 2024-03-14_23.22.54 offset: 0, probe points: []), 1: ProbeReport (nozzle: 1, datetime: 2024-03-14_23.22.54 offset: 0, probe points: [])}
2024-03-14T23:24:53.971066+0000 ultimakersystem-9159ddb29b69428b9884299aa0854caa MarvinService[451]: WAR - marvinService:130 - Added Fault: <Fault: level=4 code=48 message='The found Z-level 150.000 is not within the expected range [-30.000, 150.000]' data='dbus.Dictionary({}, signature=dbus.Signature('sv'))'>
2024-03-14T23:24:54.013787+0000 ultimakersystem-9159ddb29b69428b9884299aa0854caa Okuda[2620]: INFO     Okuda.DBus.PrinterServiceProxy Processing error: PrinterError(level: 4, code: 48, msg: 'The found Z-level 150.000 is not within the expected range [-30.000, 150.000]')
2024-03-14T23:24:54.013787+0000 ultimakersystem-9159ddb29b69428b9884299aa0854caa Okuda[2620]: "   151.927 qml [bootup] ErrorDialog overlay: Code,Level,text= 48 4 Active leveling could not be performed. Please check the nozzles and bed and try again."

[Dustin 130]

This article should help with about 90% of all active leveling issues - don't overlook the steps that sound unrelated, they are often the cause.
https://support.ultimaker.com/s/article/1667410781005

If you still have issues after that you should contact UltiMaker Support for further help

UltiMaker does not offer direct support via the community

Contact support here: https://support.ultimaker.com/s/contactsupport

[b3_engineering 0]

Thanks Dustin, I've been through that article backwards and forwards the last few days 🙂

 

[Enigma_M4 119]

Hi,

is your lift switch (which moves the right nozzle up and down) calibrated properly? This can be checkt by running the lift switch test in the printer. Possibly you've to run the lift switch calibration process.

Regards

[beadster 2]

Did you find a fix?

I have exactly the same issue and can't get a fix, the same as you I have tried all online solutions again and again, also

fitted new front fan

new glass printing base

reverted to older firmware

cleaned and checked everything.

 

thanks

bd

[gr5 2,176]

39 minutes ago, beadster said:

I have exactly the same issue

Can you explain anyway? Start from the begining please? There are very many causes and symptoms vary slightly as well.

 

What do you get for a score when you test the sensor?

Do you just get "leveling fails" or do you get the one where the height of the two cores varies?

How much does it vary by (if you look in the log file)?

Did you watch it happen to make sure it switched to the second nozzle (sometimes that is the cause - the lift switch).

If the sensor gets a high (bad) score, did you unplug the front fan? You can do that at the rear of the head without taking anything apart.

 

[beadster 2]

Hi,

so

 

the diagnostic test is low and doesn't change with core changes, fan plugged in or not, it's always between 1.4 and 2.6.

on the initial z test the extruder two is lower than extruder 1,

the OP describes fault description is exactly the same as mine.

 

the build plate climbs slowly into the nozzle compressing it into the print head, when it reaches nozzle 1 it stops and the Z motor unloads with a load buzz.

I have video but i cant upload it to here

thanks for the help

mike

 

 

[Faf666 1]

 

@beadster same thing happening to me .

I've tried with different nozzle in position 1 and 2 . 

Changed the capacitive board and glass bed .

plugged and unplugged the front fan without any change to the Leveling sensor test and value , they are around 1 and 2 .

I've manually leveled the build plate , reset to factory and no change at all. 

So to make it run , i've disabled the adaptive leveling ... by connecting in SSH ... ( not recommended )

 

I'm waiting on a solution to make this works ... pretty frustrating to see this 9K$ printer not being able to have an adaptive leveling working when my Elegoo Neptune 4 with klipper is able to make a bed mesh and everything for 300$ 

[Dustin 130]

not sure why you replaced the capacitive board.. unless the wires were damaged or a flooded printhead damaged it.. the issue is almost never related to that part.. the true sensing is up in the printhead pcb.. the capacitive board is more of a "antenna" to over simplify it. 

Looking at how dirty beadsters printhead is inside.. and the fact that the fan sticker is some reason on the outside of the printhead makes me think the fan is too dirty or even damaged.. 
If that fan is not running at spec it can cause issues with active leveling.

People often overlook the support article for this.. but statistically it resolves a significant majority of issues.
https://support.ultimaker.com/s/article/1667410781005
It is common people skip steps on this article and its usually those cases where what they skipped was the issue. 

[beadster 2]

Looking at how dirty beadsters printhead is inside.. and the fact that the fan sticker is some reason on the outside of the printhead makes me think the fan is too dirty or even damaged.. 
If that fan is not running at spec it can cause issues with active leveling.

 

A new fan is fitted ( the sticker is to remind me of the part number because I couldn't get an OE one, which eventually arrived),

and I have tried that plugged in and un-plugged,

the picture is of cores that have been flooded and cleared and worked perfectly after for a long time before this fault

I have new cores and still have the same problem.

[beadster 2]

reading through the link you referenced (again 🙂 ), the only true thing I haven't fully tested is brand new cores

although two of mine are very low hours.

I have ordered a new AA and BB to test tomorrow

I will update you on the results.

 

bd

[beadster 2]

How does the system know it has touched the nozzle?

Is the capacitive sensor that sensitive?

it appears it doesn't detect the touching and carries on up until the Z axis stalls.

 

bd

[Dustin 130]

it sounds like you have interference despite having decent scores.

Considering you have replaced the fan, i would make sure you have not accidentally smashed wires in the printhead. 
Smashed wires cause noise that messes with the sensor.. sometimes these need to be replaced sometimes simply correcting the routing of the wire will fix it. 

I understand UltiMaker was out of stock on fans for a few weeks. But if you self sourced the fan, please ensure its the same model. A similar fan for example from amazon will usually not work and generates interference with the sensor readings.

Beyond that I would recommend following the final steps at the bottom and contacting support with your log files etc as they can often help find issues or errors.

UltiMaker does not provide formal support via the community, but I wanted to make sure information here was accurate and not misleading. Improperly troubleshooting the issue can endup more costly than it needs to be.
 

[beadster 2]

Thanks for the help

I did only install an OE fan, the sticker/part number was backup in case the delay continued.

I have contacted Support.

I will check the wire routing again, are there any images of official routing?

bd

[gr5 2,176]

The way it works:

 

The build plate (the aluminum one under the glass) forms a capacitor with the plate in the print head.  The capacitance increases as the plates get closer together.  I'm pretty sure there is an oscillator where the frequency changes as the plates get closer together.

 

Anyway when the nozzle touches the glass bed the plates should stop moving closer together.  Should.  When that happens the nozzle is assumed to have touched the glass.  If instead the nozzle moves up as you described, it will NOT stop as the plates are still moving together!  This should not happen.  The bed is cantilevered and pushing down on it should move it down.

 

It's critical that the amount of force needed to push down on the bed and move it downwards 0.1mm is less than the force needed to push the nozzle up into the print head.  There is a spring inside the printcore that pushes hard on the nozzle.  Harder than the cantilever force for the first 0.1mm or so.

 

So it's possible the spring in the right printcore is too weak.  You can measure it.  It should take about 1kg of force to move the nozzle the first mm.

 

More likely something is wrong with the sensor.  More likely the bed *does* move down slightly before the printcore starts moving up.

[gr5 2,176]

This buzzing sound doesn't sound 100% right?  I guess it's quite quiet on the S5 but on the UM3 it's noisier - I forget but that seems quite possible.  I'm used to the S5 noise as I turned off active leveling on my UM3 but it's still on for my S5 so I guess I've forgotten what it sounds like.  Still it would be nice if you posted a 10 second video showing leveling to youtube or something.

 

I seem to remember the S5 has MUCH quieter servos.

[beadster 2]

the noise isn't from the servos working, they run nice and quiet, it is when the system gives up and the full load on the servo is released.

here is a video of the fault.

 

 

[madmax21 0]

Dear all,

 

Any suggestions why my bed dose not want to touch the nozzle? 

 

 

[gr5 2,176]

Okay madmax - that looks like you have noise.  Electromagnetic noise.  What reading are you getting of the sensor? Follow the instructions in Dustin's link.  The higher the number, the more noise you have.  You need to get that well below 8 before things can work. Lately, the common cause is the fan but there are many possible causes. After you get a number, try unplugging the fan at the rear of the head.  You don't have to take anything apart.

 

[gr5 2,176]

beadster - I see you are right - it is lifting the right printcore quite a bit!  That's just as bad but the opposite problem. I'd push up on the right printcore to make sure it takes around a kg of force to lift the nozzle in the frame but I'm 80% sure that the printcore is not the problem.  I'd test it anyway.

 

Instead it is some kind of electronics issue detecting the capacitance properly.  I'd contact UM tech support and see what they suggest but I think they'll have you start replacing things in the print head. I'm wondering if you could possibly have an open circuit between the circuit board and the plate in the base of the print head. There are 2 wires that run to the detection plate.  The plate is a pcb.  You can see it when you open the door.  I'd use a voltmeter to check continuity.  Or gently tug on the wires.  I'd probably take the whole print head apart.  There are detailed instructions with photos and such (or maybe it's a video, I forget).

 

If your printer is less than a year old it may be free parts for you (e.g. print head pcb).

[beadster 2]

Tried two new print cores today,

no change , still the same problem.

sensor test gives 1.68. which is roughly the same as before with the other cores

it now has

1 x new fan

1 x new glass plate

2 x new print cores

1 x new silicon guard

 

all OE ultimaker

 

Ultimaker support replied today to say I must take it into be fixed by their UK authorized service company 😞