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bob-hepple

Advise Needed Again and Finally Before I pack inn

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Hi All

I'm Struggling big style, I have had some conversations with GR5

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6780-how-to-improve-my-drawing-with-problems-with-supports/

I have tried with / Supports but Cura is being very restrictive with this, I'd like to put supports in only certain areas, I have tried Meshmixer but problems with that and a 12hr print.

I'm now at then end of my road, I have tried printing without supports and it does a fair job but with problems there is a 10mm section that prints badly and it seems to have a distortion I have tried uploading pics but at moment the server is saying theres problems.. I will try again later

the print was done at 180 using PLA and print speed was 25 full cooling, if i can't sort this Im selling up Im off to London 2014 3d Print Show where Ultimaker will be, I thought the dual extruder would help then I could of printed with full supports with PVA But can't wait indefinitely.. can anyone help point me in the right way???

 

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GR5 thanks for the tip tick above Durr sorry Nick yeah I thought it would have been an easy print but its not the supports are messing me up I can't publish a picture at moment as server is report in an error

When server lets me put pics up will send them up

Has anyone used Simplify3d thinking of trying it also with a Zinter 3d printer i f I sell my UM2 but really don't want to go that far

I have put a lot of work into this model what you can't see is the door way Hatch mechanism it all works will try tomorrow to put pics up

 

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Simplify3D in this case will probably not give you any better results. You definitely have more control in terms of print settings, but this part should be easy to print. However, in Simplify3D you have the following settings for supports:

- you can apply support based on overhang angle and also add/remove them manually

- you can define support infill, pillar resolution

- define horizontal offsets from parts

 

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I have finally managed to get a picture up that shows some of the problems forget the hole where the tube is thats going it is the surface damage where the angled nose meets the horizontal flat part behind the tube this is my problem swell as the strange surface finish on the nose. this was printed at 180 and a speed of 20 no supports

All Printed

On The Bed finished

 

your views how to stop the layer damage

 

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Hmmm... Interresting part.

If I understood it correctly, the problem are the deformed layers above the angled part - correct?

I would agree that you part should be printable without support but on the other hand, I think I would use it too.

I would suggest to turn on line support in your settings and play with the orientation (rotation) of your part in cura. You can manage to get the support lines in parallel to the layers so they will be less visible finally.

Further play with the x/y position and the amount of support to get it where you want ( remember that daid somewhere mentioned that support is calculated from the 0/0 position).

Maybe this could help...

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where the angled nose meets the horizontal flat part behind the tube t

 

From the upper of the 2 pictures it looks like it pulls in a bit there behind the hose. Is *that* what you are talking about - I have to say it's a little frustrating reading your sentences over and over again and looking at the pictures over and over again and then after the 5th time thinking - "oh maybe he means that?". Maybe some arrows? Some examples of what's wrong (should be smoother? curved more? bowed out more? bowed in more?).

ANYWAY

If your print bed is at a high temp - say 70C for PLA then you get this bowed in spot. Cooling to 60C is much better. 50C even better. Don't go below 40C as then part suddenly doesn't stick so well (there is a sudden stickiness transition around 40C). Here is a direct link to an image showing the problem and solution:

5th picture down on the left - the section called "Lower parts of the print cave in":

http://support.3dverkstan.se/article/23-a-visual-ultimaker-troubleshooting-guide

 

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Gr5

My Apologies I do not think before I ramble On I'll Try agai Sorry !!!!!!!!

ok above the second picture shows how I printed this. I have to print it like this because any supports I put inn cause more work than practical to clean up.

When I have printed this with no supports there are TWO Problem areas Stringing I'll cal it and Blistering. Now Blistering is really a good description because the under side of the print is perfect.

hear two pictures that show what I mean

All Printed

 

this shows the same as the first picture above but with markers on

 

this second picture side view I shows the stringing Im talking about

problem shown

I hope this works for you and again my apologies for really confusing you, the tube hole will NOT be there for long it is there while I finalise the design.

Bob

 

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STRINGING

Usually I use the word "stringing" for other purposes. What you call "stringing" I call "bad quality on overhangs" or "raised edges". The cure for "raised edges" is to not have so much overhang. I really don't know how to fix that other than change the orientation but your part is like a sphere with problem surfaces everywhere and you even seem to want perfect quality on the *inside* which I don't quite understand.

It may be that you can make this "stinging" much better if you lower the temp of your bed to 50C. I know that 70C for sure is too hot. OH! More importantly you need fan - lots of fan. And by default there is no fan for the first 5mm. I think you should change the code so that the fan comes on much more quickly. Probably 50% fan on second layer and 100% on 3rd so I guess that means full fan by .7mm? Assuming bottom layer is .3 and next 2 are .2mm thick.

Instead, though, I would print it in the orientation in these 2 pictures so that the outside - the visible part looks good. Then I would add enough support on the inside so that it fits properly for parts inside (screw holder things) and also some (thicker) meshmixer supports for the overhang edge as shown in the above picture.

BLISTERING

Good word. This is not normal. I've never seen this before. This is clearly caused by the underlying layers. The backside of this has an indetation at the center blister and the upper part of the blister (upper in this orientation - bottom in printed orientation) looks identical to it. The wall must be simply too thin here? I'd have to look at slice view carefully to see what is going on but somehow the inner surface is messing up the outer surface. Can you make these further apart maybe? Something similar is happening at the edge to create the second blister but I'm not sure what without looking carefully at layer view.

Is your shell thickness an integral multiple of your nozzle width? (e.g. .4, .8, 1.2mm?)

Having this on an overhang makes things worse of course. Flipping the part over so it is in the orientation shown will fix the blistering also.

I think flipping the part over and working on better meshmixer supports - get rid of most of them - only place them where you don't care about visual quality - place them such that mechanical properties aren't degraded.

To avoid printing a long slow part I would sink the part and only print the last bit - the flap on top and a little structure - so maybe just the last 5mm. That way you can get results quickly (quicker) and see what kind of minimal supports are needed.

For example if that flap had two ridges down either side that are supported only at the corner it might maybe print those two ridges with bridge feature nicely and then bridge across those to ridges to make the bottom layer of the "flap". Or maybe just tons and tons of break-off meshmixer support - the bottom of this flap I assume doesn't have to be as pretty as it will be hidden when assembled. You want support that just breaks off and needs less than 60 seconds of dremel cleanup or no dremel cleanup at all. So place them where little bumps underneath won't interfere with the other mechanical parts.

 

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Gr 5

Thank you for taking the time to put your response… you have given me something to think about hear sinking the part so it doesn't take 4 hrs to find out its naff appeals to me big style.

Don't think Im wanting the internals immaculate I just want them accurate when I printed this out using supports see below

Proper Way Up

this is what it turned out like

Prop Internals

 

and in this orientation the internals were really bad no use - the screw supports were malformed ect ect, and the internal surface was again Blistering

Back to the Subject The Blistering as I call it stumped me the wall thickness hear is 2mm. and shell thickness was set to .8

the fans are on already the bed was set to 60 and print was done at 180

I will play with mesh mixer and try that.

as a last attempt

I installed simplify 3d to see what it made of the model. I have NOT run the file I am nervous about the style of G code my UM2 is set to Unicode and when I looked at the G code from Simplify 3d its different and also my Um2 machine says

"This File will Override Machine Settings from the Slicer"

I tried this because Cura was being a little bit of a pain with supports and a Brim everywhere including some little slots which are behind the tube the brim does not need to be in there..

Thank you for your advise.

Bob

 

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