colorfabb color XT , first test

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Just did a first test with the new colorfabb XT color material (got it at the 3d printshow last week).

First test failed as the material did not stick to the bed (let loos around 5mm3/sec), but after a good soap cleaning of the glass that was solved.

The advised print temp = 240-260. I printed at 240.

At 240 celcius the bonding between the layers is very poor, the print failed at 7mm3/s, but also on the lower layers it takes very little force to peel the layers appart.

Will do some testing at higher temperatures later ....but to avoid buying new teflon pieces all the time I would like to keep the temp as low as possible ...

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

maybe someone from colorfabb ( @Gijs ) can clearify the advised printing temperature, I see that on the site now the advised temperature for the regular XT is also 240-260.

On the box I have from april it says 250-260, the box I have form june is labeled 240-260 so I assume this advice on printability at 240 is a deliberate change.

 

[mnis 11]

Hi,

only as a suggestion:

I believe that the use of filaments (... such as ABS, CO-Polyester, or other special filaments) that require long-term very high temperatures above 230 degrees will destroy your UM2-PTFE-ColdEnd very quickly. The cooling of the ColdEnd on Ultimaker 2 is definitely not efficient enough, and you should (...as you've already mentioned it) as a precaution, obtain a small supply PTFE-Coupler. The intense heat transfer from HoEnd to ColdEnd, makes the PTFE very soft near the transition area and this area is slowly being eroded.

In the exclusive (daily) PLA-use, with moderate temperatures 210-230 degrees, holds a UM2-PTFE-Coupler by a maximum of 3 months, after which the part is already worn out.

The cleaning methods, such as pulling out of the filament from the heating chamber, usually at temperatures of 90 degrees for PLA, promote premature wear as deformed filament damage the inner wall of the Coupler.

I think it is better if a more efficient cooling for the ColdEnd, or a more resistant ColdEnd material was discovered, then it really makes sense with more specialized materials and high temperatures to Experiment.

Markus

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Just tried again at 250 celcius, as you see it looks a lot better, but still the inter layer adhesion is very poor.

Even the layers in the 3 & 4 mm3/s area can be easilly torn appart. Did a check with Ultimaker PLA red at 230 celsius and this came out perfect to the top, and here I can really not pull the layers appart using just my fingers...

So It seems you need to go higher than 250 celcius.... (and order a pack of teflon pieces ...) if you want to use this XT.

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Did another cross check with regular colorfabb XT, also at 250 celcius.

Optically the same result as with the color XT (failing at 10 mm3/s) but here the inter layer adhesion is MUCH BETTER. Just as with the PLA at 230, I can not pull layers appart using my fingers.....

 

[hreedijk 4]

Hello Arjan,

I probably don't have to tell you, but the faster you print, the higher the temperature.

At 10mm3/s you'll need a minimum of 255 C but indeed, be careful with the UM2 PFTE.

I've managed to print at 10mm3/s at 255 C and up to 260 C which had very good results, but I don't have to worry about a PFTE because of my non UM standard hot-end.

About the adhesion to glass (and aluminium), use a glue stick or Kapton tape with a bed temp of 60 to 70 C.

Personally I use Kapton tape on a cheap Ikea mirror for all my prints, PLA, ABS, Nylon and XT.

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Harold,

To be honest although I use this test I'm not at all interested in the 10mm3/s, I usually print at low speeds.

My main concern is the poor adhesion between layers at lower speed. I see a big difference between the "normal" XT and the color XT. The test printed at 3 mm3/s / 250 celsius are strong in "normal" XT but very weak in the new color XT... I can just pull them loose with my fingers..

I know this is just based on one sample piece, so I'm curious to hear from colorfabb if this material should have the same properties as the regular XT.

 

[hreedijk 4]

Hello Arjan,

It should, at my tests with 4 colors I get a very good adhesion.

What was your layer height?

Did you use the fan's and at what speed?

Try to minimize the use of fan, normally, when the minimum layer time is higher then 7 seconds, I set the fan speed at max 25%, when the minimum layer time is more then 10 seconds I set the fan's off entirely.

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Hi Harold,

Not sure, but I believe this test has a layer hight around 0.2 mm and fan's off...

Butt the main point is that when I do the same test, on the same machine, I get a much better result with regular XT than with the new color XT .....

I'm hoping to get some test results from others ..... I'm sure others have some samples from the 3d print show ....

 

[hreedijk 4]

I was lucky that I'm one of the beta testers of the color XT, so I know a bit how the material prints.

Adding color to a material influences the print properties a bit so threat this color XT as a slightly new material with no comparison with the regular XT.

Can you provide me the gcode file you have used, I'll give it a try at my UM1 this evening.

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

You'll find the testfile here;

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/4586-can-your-um2-printer-achieve-10mm3s-test-it-here/?p=39383

 

[hreedijk 4]

Got it, I'll make a test print this evening in pink (magenta), let you know......

 

[DidierKlein 729]

Just saying, maybe the test cylinder has too much fan for the coloured XT?

For PLA it's printed at high temp (230°c) for XT my guess would be to print at higher temp too (250°c at least)

 

[hreedijk 4]

Not sure, but I believe this test has a layer hight around 0.2 mm and fan's off...

 

Looking at the gcode I see the fan is set up to the maximum speed (255) in 20 steps.

First thing to do is keep the fan at minimum levels, if possible, entirely off.

 

[hreedijk 4]

Hello Arjan,

 

Last night I printed the gcode file from the link you gave me.

It made a terrible noise on my UM1 but I've printed it anyway.

 

My goal was to print the file with the minimum temperature possible, not to get the best print.

The settings during the print where as follows:

At 3mm3/s Temp 236 Flow 100 Fan's off

At 4mm3/s Temp 240 Flow 100 Fan's off

At 5mm3/s Temp 247 Flow 100 Fan's off

At 6mm3/s Temp 254 Flow 100 Fan's off

At 7mm3/s Temp 258 Flow 100 Fan's off

At 8mm3/s Temp 258 Flow 110 Fan's 30%

At 9mm3/s Temp 258 Flow 116 Fan's 50%

At 10mm3/s Temp 262 Flow 120 Fan's 50%

 

At the image below you can see when (at the higher speeds) I've adjusted the temp, flow and fan's of the printer during the test.

The layer adhesion is indeed poor, I can pull the layers of the entire testprint apart.

 

Now as you said already, this is just one file.

 

 

To be more conclusive, I've drawn a cilinder with a diameter of 60mm and a height of 75mm, like the test file.

Cura settings: 245 temp, 0.2mm layer height, 1 perimeter, no infill, print speed 90mm/s and fan speed 30% after 3 layers.

I've set the flow speed on the printer back to 100%.

 

 

This file prints a lot better, I could set the temp a bit higher to get a more smooth surface, but this test was about layer adhesion.

With this testprint I cannot pull the layers apart like the previous print.

If the layer adhesion is not good, I should hear cracking when I bend the object, I didn't hear it after many tries.

 

You can download the cilinder testfile from here if you want to give it a try:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1911369/Shared%20Files/60MM_Test_Cilinder.STL

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Harold, interesting, so the fans seem to make a lot of difference.

I downloaded your cilinder, currently printing something else but wil try it later with your settings.

Will use your settings to do another comparison vs regular XT, as I saw a clear difference in favour of the regular XT in my previous test...

 

[hreedijk 4]

Indeed, if you use less fan, the filament has time to melt a little bit more onto the previous layer.

If you use more fan, the adhesion is less or you need to set the nozzle temp higher to compensate.

Let me know your results.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

With XT Red I need 250°C for closed horizontal layers at 30mm/s if the fan is off on the UM1. With fan fully on, I need at least 255°C, rather 260°C for closed lines.

However, the results are quite comparable to those with Madesolid PET+ red.