Extruder makes weird noises when printing first layer.

[TheArchitect 2]

Hello everyone, I'm new here so I don't really know if this is the correct place to put this issue but I'll just try.

I just want to start with saying I already searched this forum for similar problems like mine but I'm just not that technical and don't know every correct term used to describe the printerparts, meaning I'm never sure if another ones problem is related to mine.

My issue:

Recently my printer (Ultimaker²) makes these weird noises when it's printing the first layer. The noises are comming from the feeder wheel (or is it also called extruder, maybe stepper motor, driver? ).

Every time I hear the noise, which is a short knocking sound, I see the wheel turning back. I'm not sure if this is related but when I watch my print at the same time while it turned back, I notice the print is messed up at that part, I mean there is no filament, no infill, a 'missing line'.

But when the first layer is done and the fans start to work everything is normal again. It prints perfectly and the noises are gone. The toplayer is always perfect too by the way.

My stats:

Layer height: 0.1mm

Shell thickness: 0.8mm

Bottom/top Thickness: 0.6mm

Fill Density: 20%

Print Speed: 50mm/s

Nozzle Size: 0.4

Initial Layer Thickness: 0.3mm

Buildplate temperature: 60°C

Head Temperature: 210°C

Printed with PLA (3mm +/- 0.1mm)

Thank you in advance.

Maybe I will try to add some photos later on, the print is still busy while I'm writing this.

[craftee 19]

The filament feeder might be meeting resistance?

[TheArchitect 2]

The filament feeder might be meeting resistance?

I don't really think so, I checked and cleaned it multiple times with a tooth brush and vaccuum cleaner. Also I don't think that would explain why only the first layer is having issues and the rest not.

[TheArchitect 2]

These are the results. This is printed with Silver/Grey PLA

[craftee 19]

If its just the first layer it could be that the hot-end is too close to the heated bed. try re-leveling your print bed.

[neotko 1,417]

The mm2 at 0.3 are much higher than at 0.1 and at 210C it might have small resistance to push the filament. Maybe try 220-230 for the first layer and change to 210 at layer 2 with the z pluggin.

[neotko 1,417]

Also check the filament it's no bigger than 3mm. Um2 uses 2.85mm and anything bigger than 3 will have resistence going the bowden

[TheArchitect 2]

Also check the filament it's no bigger than 3mm. Um2 uses 2.85mm and anything bigger than 3 will have resistence going the bowden

Yes I checked it already, it's not bigger than 3, but it is however bigger than 2.85. Also the website of the filament I'm using says the best temperature to print is 200°C, so I'm already above it but I will try 230°C.

[neotko 1,417]

PLA in general starts to get problematic at 240 (sugar goes brown). But higher temperatures are a must when going high on mm3. If it's low it takes longer for the plastic to reach the good temperature and when extruding the filament might get friction if pushing much on low temps. So it's just a matter of speed/heat. At 0.1 the amount/time it's smaller so it's easyer to keep the filament melting but at really fast speeds you need to go higher.

[cloakfiend 996]

I had this problem tons before, but just make sure your bed is level as people have been saying and its better to haev teh nozzle closer than further, and for 35mm/s 0.06mm layer height i have the first few layers at 210 before i turn it durn to 205 for the rest.

What you might want to try is the atomic nozzle check with white, so you can really see if youve cleaned the nozzle as it might seem clear from the shape but is still dirty. In my experience when you use colourd filament to atomic pull you cant always see the tiny bits that show up easily on white.

Also i have just started to simple cut the filament i need off the roll and balance it at the back to achieve perfect layers and less retarded clicking at the start. there are many factors, but good glue, heat and minimal resistance with the filament is the way to go.

works for me....

Edited April 26, 2015 by Guest

[TheArchitect 2]

I had this problem tons before, but just make sure your bed is level as people have been saying and its better to haev teh nozzle closer than further, and for 35mm/s 0.06mm layer height i have the first few layers at 210 before i turn it durn to 205 for the rest.

What you might want to try is the atomic nozzle check with white, so you can really see if youve cleaned the nozzle as it might seem clear from the shape but is still dirty. In my experience when you use colourd filament to atomic pull you cant always see the tiny bits that show up easily on white.

Also i have just started to simple cut the filament i need off the roll and balance it at the back to achieve perfect layers and less retarded clicking at the start. there are many factors, but good glue, heat and minimal resistance with the filament is the way to go.

works for me....

I repeated the leveling like 10 times before I posted this, so I think it's safe to say it's leveled now. I also did the atomic method twice and also with white filament. Your pictures were very helpfull, as I could see that they were different from my results. I repeated the heating and cooling process over and over untill I had no dirty parts anymore but my filament wasn't as short as yours when it came out. Everytime I pulled it out (with a quick pull), I had this long thin but clean wire, I thought this was normal though.

I'm starting to think the problem is the material. It's a cheap chinese product. I tested today with some original Ultimaker-filament and noticed the noises were gone. I think the diameter is too big, I don't know.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Guest

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I think placing your filament spool lower is a lot easier, and less wasteful, than cutting it to length every time... Here's a simple example (look in the pictures) https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ultimaker2-spool-connector

And you could get a digital caliper to check the filament diameter on a few different spots.

[cloakfiend 996]

If only the first layer is the problem then the problem is not the plastic. Try heating the nozzle to 260 and the bed to 90, then when its at temp, quickly go to the menu and move material to make sure there are no gaps in the nozzle, and goto press print menu. the printer should already be drippping PLA due to the heat if not then its still blocked. with everything at heat and the material just been pushed through you should be good to go. worked for me just now. make sure your nozzle is very close to the glass but not touching.

Just to let you know my best temp for successful pulls is around the 85C mark. i find if it goes down to 70 its too cold and 90 is too drippy still. and my glass bed is most certainly not level and i think i may have even slightly bent my bars when i was first doing atomic pulls, but it still makes a perfect base.

could be the glue your using also. i have very good luck with an ultra thin layer of pritt stik power. (not the regular one)

[ultiarjan 1,223]

If you want a smooth looking surface and your printing PLA, just don't use any glue at all, just make sure you print on a clean glassbed.

[swordriff 119]

Lots of trouble with too small layer height and not exactly calibrated machine!

I suggest:

Atomic.

Bed levelling, after paper makes small resistance on you, "open 3 clicks" on wheel. Many have too small bed gap.

Pla 220C

start sklow: 30mms

Layer 0.15

Work from there.. oncrease speed slowly to 50

[swordriff 119]

oops... previous comment was placed strangely by UM forum...

sorry.. but content is almost right

[cloakfiend 996]

I think placing your filament spool lower is a lot easier, and less wasteful, than cutting it to length every time... Here's a simple example (look in the pictures) https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ultimaker2-spool-connector

And you could get a digital caliper to check the filament diameter on a few different spots.

Yep, looks great, but ill need to print it and get metal bits. when now i just measure and cut. little bit of waste, but i dont mind, better than the waste i get off grinding at the moment, and perfect prints with 0 risk of tangling (which was my main problem) not only the friction of the filament coming out. When my spools are new and full, the brittle ones untangle a bit, and if youre not careful, or even if you are they can tangle and ruin a long print. I still dont know how to overcome this. Its happened only once fully to me, but the little snags even ruin the perfect alignment of the layers.

[TheArchitect 2]

If only the first layer is the problem then the problem is not the plastic. Try heating the nozzle to 260 and the bed to 90, then when its at temp, quickly go to the menu and move material to make sure there are no gaps in the nozzle, and goto press print menu. the printer should already be drippping PLA due to the heat if not then its still blocked. with everything at heat and the material just been pushed through you should be good to go. worked for me just now. make sure your nozzle is very close to the glass but not touching.

Just to let you know my best temp for successful pulls is around the 85C mark. i find if it goes down to 70 its too cold and 90 is too drippy still. and my glass bed is most certainly not level and i think i may have even slightly bent my bars when i was first doing atomic pulls, but it still makes a perfect base.

could be the glue your using also. i have very good luck with an ultra thin layer of pritt stik power. (not the regular one)

How did you bent your bars when doing the atomic method? Just to know how to prevent it in the furture.

[TheArchitect 2]

If you want a smooth looking surface and your printing PLA, just don't use any glue at all, just make sure you print on a clean glassbed.

When I don't use anything at all my prints don't stick for like 80%, it's too risky. I'm pretty happy with using glue though, never had problems there, had lots of succesful prints in the past just using a paperglue stick.

[TheArchitect 2]

Lots of trouble with too small layer height and not exactly calibrated machine!

I suggest:

Atomic.

Bed levelling, after paper makes small resistance on  you, "open 3 clicks" on wheel. Many have too small bed gap.

Pla 220C

start sklow: 30mms

Layer 0.15

Work from there.. oncrease speed slowly to 50

I don't really understand what you mean by '"open 3 clicks" on wheel'. The problem is 0.15 is a thick layerheight to me. As I use my printer mostly for architecture-models I often have to print very small and thin pieces (like furniture on 1:100 or 1:50) so always printing on a layerheight higher than 0.1 is impossible for me.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

How did you bent your bars when doing the atomic method? Just to know how to prevent it in the furture.

Do an atomic with the head parked in a corner, not in the middle of the printer to prevent bending of XY axis.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Guest

[swordriff 119]

Quote: Bulid gap '"open 3 clicks" on wheel'.

I mean follow official bed leveling procedure, using paper to slide between the nozzle and the glass plate, just like they say. The paper should have like a "tooth", scraping lightly when you pull it out. This is what UM says is right gap.

I suggest you try the same, but after paper is like this, then turn encoder wheel 1-3 clicks to make more gap.

[cloakfiend 996]

If only the first layer is the problem then the problem is not the plastic. Try heating the nozzle to 260 and the bed to 90, then when its at temp, quickly go to the menu and move material to make sure there are no gaps in the nozzle, and goto press print menu. the printer should already be drippping PLA due to the heat if not then its still blocked. with everything at heat and the material just been pushed through you should be good to go. worked for me just now. make sure your nozzle is very close to the glass but not touching.

Just to let you know my best temp for successful pulls is around the 85C mark. i find if it goes down to 70 its too cold and 90 is too drippy still. and my glass bed is most certainly not level and i think i may have even slightly bent my bars when i was first doing atomic pulls, but it still makes a perfect base.

could be the glue your using also. i have very good luck with an ultra thin layer of pritt stik power. (not the regular one)

How did you bent your bars when doing the atomic method? Just to know how to prevent it in the furture.

I did not leave the head in the corner, and putting pressure on the head when it is in the middle of a bar could bend it. Like Ultiarjan says below, do your atomic pulls when the head is in one of the corners, because you can put more pressure on the bars there when you are pushing filament through.