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Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP


Horia
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Posted (edited) · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

Hello, I encountered a problem in my prints. We use FlashForge Creator Pro

Here are some photos:

12810256_1017284321662344_1835102808_o.thumb.jpg.b1b0fe03ec9404edd150bcb3fb231637.jpg

12789662_1017284471662329_549795524_o.thumb.jpg.cabcca040c61137667681c445b85a017.jpg

12787221_1017284441662332_384249554_o.thumb.jpg.d08ccbbaca84fd9b55155f5b9d7f3f79.jpg

12787097_1017283954995714_1088479008_o.thumb.jpg.cf470dc164d7932d769b064d3efd10fb.jpg

12776776_1017284354995674_1584598952_o.thumb.jpg.98da011136069a75a530a95a9eed4afc.jpg

I am using Simplify3D as a slicer.

I printed the handle for nylon bags a few times and every time the seam was there. I changed the orientation and the seam didn’t disappear.

Here is the Z seam for the bag handle:

12788833_1017329408324502_783806863_o.thumb.jpg.d5e2ae3fdda00c7116e40907f13f3d68.jpg

After that I printed 2 coat hangers and again the seam was there. The model has 3 perimeters. The infill touches the inner perimeter at another spot above the unwanted seam. The Z seam is at random points.

For comparison:

Infill picture:

seam.thumb.jpg.a64e5c6911e12cc8feddb3abea3515db.jpg

Seam picture:

seam2.thumb.jpg.e72e7020faba59a15a6b75e3d2c100d3.jpg

The Z seam is in another spot and has nothing to do with the continuous seam seen in the pictures.

Is this from the slicer or the printer?

12810256_1017284321662344_1835102808_o.thumb.jpg.b1b0fe03ec9404edd150bcb3fb231637.jpg

12789662_1017284471662329_549795524_o.thumb.jpg.cabcca040c61137667681c445b85a017.jpg

12787221_1017284441662332_384249554_o.thumb.jpg.d08ccbbaca84fd9b55155f5b9d7f3f79.jpg

12787097_1017283954995714_1088479008_o.thumb.jpg.cf470dc164d7932d769b064d3efd10fb.jpg

12776776_1017284354995674_1584598952_o.thumb.jpg.98da011136069a75a530a95a9eed4afc.jpg

12788833_1017329408324502_783806863_o.thumb.jpg.d5e2ae3fdda00c7116e40907f13f3d68.jpg

seam.thumb.jpg.a64e5c6911e12cc8feddb3abea3515db.jpg

seam2.thumb.jpg.e72e7020faba59a15a6b75e3d2c100d3.jpg

Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    The Z seam is usually where the printer pauses briefly and the Z axis moves. Because of this pause you get extra PLA leaking out. You can reduce until the seam is almost invisible through a few techniques (speed/temp). The best thing to do is lower the speed drastically. Try to get your print volume under 2mm^3/sec if you want higher quality. Whatever your speed was for this print, cut it in half. Each time you cut speed in half the seem will get fainter.

    In fact I recommend you play with this in the TUNE menu, try 10 different speeds and mark the part with a permanent marker each time you change speeds and keep notes. By the time you finish 30 minutes of printing you will be an expert on Z seams. Also consider lowering the temperature. This will help the z seam also but only if you also slow it down.

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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    I feel that all the odd things in 3d printing are happening to me... :(

    I'll reformulate:

    This is the Z seam that I wanted to appear in the same place:

    12788833_1017329408324502_783806863_o.thumb.jpg.d5e2ae3fdda00c7116e40907f13f3d68.jpg

    This is something that I don't know what to call, so I named it "unwanted seam"

    12787221_1017284441662332_384249554_o.thumb.jpg.d08ccbbaca84fd9b55155f5b9d7f3f79.jpg

    We figgled a lot with the Z seams in different places and depending on the model. If the model has a lot of corners we print with Z seam at random places and if it has smooth surfaces (like that bag handle) we print the Z seam at the same Z coordinate for each layer.

    I can't figgure out why that "unwanted seam" is appearing. The weird thing is that when I printed the coat hanger (with the Z seam coordinate placed randomly at each layer) the same effect appeared.

    12788833_1017329408324502_783806863_o.thumb.jpg.d5e2ae3fdda00c7116e40907f13f3d68.jpg

    12787221_1017284441662332_384249554_o.thumb.jpg.d08ccbbaca84fd9b55155f5b9d7f3f79.jpg

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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    well I don't know s3d very well but isn't there a "slice view" or similar so you can see what's going on at that darker line? I'm guessing maybe the infill is visible? Because this is a translucent material. But you would know better than I as you have the slicer and the gcode. Gcode can also be visualized by other software such as repetier host which loads a gcode file and you can highlight each layer or each line segment one at a time and see exactly what is going on visually.

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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    The slicer view didn't show anything in the area where the bulge apeared. In the picture with the coat hanger you can see that the infill is touching the inner perimeter at a different point that the bulge is.

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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    Is this from the slicer or the printer?

     

    I'm pretty sure that's the slicer. You can make a short test with another slicer, print and compare the result - just to be sure...

    It looks like the opposite of a "z-scar". If you look at the preview (single layer view) - the seam is probably exactly at the layer change position.

    Related settings in Simplify3D are:

    - layer change position

    - retraction restart distance

    - coat distance

    - wipe distance

    ...and the retraction options on the "Advanced" tab.

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    Posted (edited) · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    I found the culprit: acceleration

    The left one is without accel and the right one with accel

    5a33191e54a32_accelerationbulge.thumb.jpg.9c15091ddbfc1a859c7f8833546045cb.jpg

    It's a firmware problem, but I can't print without acceleration because my print time will be x5

    Any idea how to fix this?

    5a33191e54a32_accelerationbulge.thumb.jpg.9c15091ddbfc1a859c7f8833546045cb.jpg

    Edited by Guest
    update
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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    Acceleration? I don't know what that does.

    The marlin firmware has an acceleration parameter for XY axes. It defaults to 3000 mm/sec for typical UM2 printer but can go up to 9000 mm/sec. You can override this in gcode but cura never messes with this. If this is an s3d parameter it should be more than a boolean - it should have a range of options. Typically I high acceleration can give you some subtle vertical lines on your print caused by "ringing". Usually 1000mm/sec gets rid of most ringing.

    But I suspect this S3D parameter is something completely different.

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    Posted (edited) · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    After fiddling around with the  Jetty-Kubicek-Newman values and the acceleration from the machine we eliminated almost all of the bulge.

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    Nice! what did you pick for K and K2? What kind of printer do you have?

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    Posted (edited) · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    Nice!  what did you pick for K and K2?  What kind of printer do you have?

     

    We have a FlashForge Creator PRO

    The default values were k=0.005 and k2=0.055

    The values that worked for us were k=0.0065 and k2=0.065

    The default acceleration was about 1000 and we set ours to 500.

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    Update:

    After a lot of tests and calibration we found out that there is inconsistent movement to the X and Y rods.

    This could be because of bearings or belts. Don't know yet.

    Saw on a lot of forums that the movement should be "smooth" for the carriage but we can't measure that. Probably we have to disassemble each component to find out what makes the hiccups.

    If anyone encountered the problem and resolved it please help.

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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    This friction is probably unrelated but should be fixed anyway.

    Is this a UMO or a UM2. With the UMO the most common problem is that the end caps at the end of one of the 4 thicker horizontal rods is too tight. Try loosening 2 of them - on only one end of the 2 rods for that axis.

    If this is a UM2 the most common issue is that the 2 axes are not perpendicular which causes problems in the bearings. This is easily seen visually if you look straight down.

    There are other possibilities though - what kind of printer is this?

    Oil the larger horizontal rods only - don't oil any rods that have linear bearings which includes the 2 X rods and the 2 rods that go through the heads. The other 4 rods definitely need a light oil.

    Consider cleaning all the rods - put some protective cloth on the bed to keep oil off it then use oil and a cloth rag to clean all the rods. Remove all the oil from the 2 rods going through the head. WD40 is a good cleaner but keep it out of the bearings unless you remove the bearings completely and clean them separately - in that case WD40 is a good cleaner.

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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    Just referring to @gr5 's post, my experience on WD40 is automotive based not 3D printer based. WD40 is a good cleaner but i leaves a residue, whether this is OK for printing I know not. Last year in the UK they released a range of new products and I think the new WD40 now does not leave a residue (i.e I read that somewhere); whether there is any old WD40 left in the distribution channels, again I know not. I just wanted to make you aware; I am sure though that if George has used WD40 on his printer then it will be OK :)

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    Posted (edited) · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    If you use Kisslicer, you can specify where you want the seam to be placed (or use truly random placement).

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    My printer is a FlashForge Creator PRO.

    I will buy a Motip PTFE lube (recommended by other makers) and grease the rods after a thorough clean.

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    Posted · Unwanted seam appearing in prints on FFCP

    Yup I a sure PTFE is the magic acrynom for not leaving a residue.

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