UM2 extruder upgrade feeder vs Bondtech feeder. Why Bondtech?

[krys 206]

Hi folks,

I have recently upgraded my UM2 to a UM2+. So far I like the new feeder and everything seems to work. I see many people raving about the Bondtech feeder, however. So I wonder:

Has anyone compared them head to head?

Would it be worth getting the Bondtech, given I have the UM2+ feeder already?

Why is the Bondtech so yummy?

If anyone has thoughts/insights on this, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Thanks very much!

[olebor 3]

I was actually considering buying the UM2+ upgrade since I was having all kinds of trouble with slipping feeder, under extrusion etc. I haven't actually tried the UM2+ feeder, but what I can see from the pictures its still somewhat the same kind of mechanism only that it is easier to clean.

It would seem that it could suffer from the same flaws as the original one. It has one shaft from the stepper and one bearing pressing the filament to that, essentially deforming the filament. It is geared as well, but that does not help for slipping.

If you have a look at the bondtech feeder, it has dual drive and will thus push the filament from both sides. The gripping wheels are also formed to "grip" around the entire filament without deforming it. Essentially it will grip the filament on all sides and push it really hard. I cannot see how this feeder will ever slip.

After upgrading my machine with bondtech and the new matchless heater block from 3D solex.... It's a completely new machine. It is extremely reliable and I can print at insane speeds. The bondtech feeder will pop the bowden tube before it ever slips.

[krys 206]

Hi olebor,

Thanks for your insights. It's really appreciated.

I have found that in practice, the UM2+ extruder does not slip or give under-extrusions, at least not yet in my usage.

It really is significantly different and better than the original. It is a different stepper motor, is, as you say, geared which gives it more torque, and uses gear teeth instead of a knurled bolt for biting into the filament.

Now that said, I have not yet done speed tests. And the Bondtech design might be even better, despite the UM2+ improvements. So that could be a reason to upgrade when/if I want to push my machine even further.

But I still wonder if anyone has directly tested both? Are they actually reasonable equivalent in real practice? Is once actually significantly better than the other?

Thanks again!

[gr5 2,271]

I've tested both.  I even tested the pulling strength of the bondtech.  It's much stronger than the UM2+.  I forget exactly how much better but about double the pushing strength.  Most people won't need to go over speeds that the "plus" feeder can't handle but the bondtech is just a delight in that it has so much power.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Guest

[krys 206]

I just found this: https://ultimaker.com/en/community/19984-bond-tech-versus-the-new-designed-um2-feeder

Not sure how I missed it before. But reading it all, despite it's title, there is no actual comparison with the UM2+ feeder.

In case anyone else is wondering.

[krys 206]

Hi gr5,

Thanks for the insights. That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

So, you are suggesting that the Bondtech is quite a bit stronger, but if I am not looking to push speed over quality, then my UM2+ feeder is perfectly fine.

But if I want to go whole hog on speed, then the Bondtech feeder is yummy.

Is that correct?

Thanks again!

[eldrick 65]

The Bondtech also has finer control over extrusion "resolution" than Ultimaker versions: it uses a higher number of E-steps per mm of filament.

I haven't tried to test the effects of this, but it should result in slightly better feature definition, particularly with smaller nozzles.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Guest

[avogra 68]

Another advantage: The wheels in the bondtech are tightly enclosed by the housing, so that flexible filament has no chance to escape on the way to the bowden entrance. Also the fact that both wheels are actuated helps for flexible filament, as the force on the filament is symmetrical. I have some TPE that is quite a bit more flexible than ninjaflex, which i was able to print at 30 mm/s.

But I wouldn't have bought it, if I already had had the UM2+ feeder. From what I heard it can print ninjaflex too at slow speeds.

[krys 206]

The Bondtech also has finer control over extrusion "resolution" than Ultimaker versions: it uses a higher number of E-steps per mm of filament.

I haven't tried to test the effects of this, but it should result in slightly better feature definition, particularly with smaller nozzles.

 

Hi eldrick,

Thanks for the feedback!

So, are you suggesting finer layer heights (0.03, 0.02, etc.)? Or finer resolution for unusual layer heights (0.043, 0.046, etc.)? ... Or are you just suggesting the print surfaces will be nicer because the extruder can more precisely match whatever feed rate is requested?

[krys 206]

Another advantage: The wheels in the bondtech are tightly enclosed by the housing, so that flexible filament has no chance to escape on the way to the bowden entrance. Also the fact that both wheels are actuated helps for flexible filament, as the force on the filament is symmetrical. I have some TPE that is quite a bit more flexible than ninjaflex, which i was able to print at 30 mm/s.

But I wouldn't have bought it, if I already had had the UM2+ feeder. From what I heard it can print ninjaflex too at slow speeds.

 

Hi avogra,

Thanks the insights! It is a good point about flexible materials. I have not yet tested them on the UM2+ feeder. I have original Ninjaflex and super soft Filaflex (and even PCTPE) to test.

With my old Robert's feeder setup I could do them all, slowly, no problem. With the new feeder, as you say, it seems it can work too. But I have not yet tested it. I am wondering about an auto-oiler for the new feeder like I had with Robert's feeder.

But you are suggesting that the Bondtech feeder might do flexible filaments better/faster. That is interesting. I guess I will have to see if my UM2+ is good enough, or if it is fixable, or if it is too annoying to live.

Thanks very much!

[avogra 68]

If flexible filament is important for you, I suggest to exchange the PFA bowden for a PTFE tube, as l'm advertising all over the forum It has far less friction, so maybe oil isn't necessary at all. See this topic.

[gr5 2,271]

So, you are suggesting that the Bondtech is quite a bit stronger, but if I am not looking to push speed over quality, then my UM2+ feeder is perfectly fine.

But if I want to go whole hog on speed, then the Bondtech feeder is yummy.

yes. And there is the suggestion that having higher resolution means you can feed more precisely when printing really tiny amounts like making a tree frog smaller than a pea with a .1mm nozzle but I doubt even then it makes much difference. But I don't know. Maybe it helps.

[krys 206]

yes.  And there is the suggestion that having higher resolution means you can feed more precisely when printing really tiny amounts like making a tree frog smaller than a pea with a .1mm nozzle but I doubt even then it makes much difference.  But I don't know.  Maybe it helps.

 

Well, I have not even got to playing with my 0.25 nozzle yet, and I have a 0.15 to play with, so a tree frog is in my future, but I think I will see what I can get out of my UM2+ feeder before I go blowing a bunch more money. (Though that matchless nozzle looks sexy!)

Thanks again for the thoughtful insights.

[krys 206]

If flexible filament is important for you, I suggest to exchange the PFA bowden for a PTFE tube, as l'm advertising all over the forum :PIt has far less friction, so maybe oil isn't necessary at all. See this topic.

 

Thanks for the hint, avogra!

So did you get the exact same one as joseph-kim mentioned in that other thread? Or do you have a different one that you are in love with?

[avogra 68]

So did you get the exact same one as joseph-kim mentioned in that other thread?  Or do you have a different one that you are in love with?

 

Living in germany, I ordered mine from a german shop. There was no brand mentioned, so no idea, how quality is compared to other ptfe tubes

[neotko 1,417]

Yesterday started to test the bondtech feeder (not my 1.75 cheap solution) but the full planetgear motor + bondtech qr 1.75. I think it works quite nice. Ofc I had to disassemble it to realign the gears since they had a 1mm offset wrong (quite easy and fast to do).

Also I had to clean the grease they use, since it has a dark brown color, and it was so spread that it was making the filament slightly dirty (I use tons of pastels colors so I had color contamination of the first print from that). I cleaned the gears and applied a ptfe grease that I have that's actually white and very transparent, and also I was carefull and only applied on the gears that actually need it.

So IMO. The solution works fantastic. It has a very controlled grip, but I think my printed solution (for 1.75mm with their cheap kit) works just as good. I have been printing flexibles like a boss lately and that for me it's just awesome.

The only issue I think this has, it's that the filament gear teeth's do get dirty overtime, but it's easy to clean them if you have a small toothbrush. But ofc even with dirty between the teeth's they keep working, I clean them every day when I start to print just because I'm quite obsessive with my print quality and I prefer to avoid as much random elements as posible.

[krys 206]

Living in germany, I ordered mine from a german shop. There was no brand mentioned, so no idea, how quality is compared to other ptfe tubes

 

Okay cool. So, when I get the urge to further "pimp my Ulti" I will look at replacing the boden as well.

Thanks so much!

[krys 206]

@neotko: So Bondtech = flexibles like a boss. Nice! ... And alignment should be checked.

Thanks for the insigts!

[neotko 1,417]

@neotko: So Bondtech = flexibles like a boss.  Nice!  ... And alignment should be checked.

Thanks for the insigts!

 

Yeah they drip a lot so they need combing/wipe to control it and also the trick it's to relax the feeder tension to the bare minimum, otherwise you crush it.

Today printed a more flexible material that's supposed to only allow 30mm/s (seller recommendations) and so far printed 6 of this, no problem (except the first that failed because the feeder tension was set for pla)

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/22080-fatiroberti-feeder-for-bondtech-dualdrive-175mm-cheap-kit?page=last#lastreply