First layer filament not adhering to bed

[LesHall 95]

HI all,

Consulting the hiveMind on this one as I have tried all I know. The filament is lifting on the first layer. I have tried repeatedly cleaning the bed and adjusting for level, have updated the firmware in both the printer and in Cura including downloading and installing Cura 2.3 for Mac.

I am wondering if a rod is bent or something crazy like that. Or maybe I did not do things in the right order to solve the issue.

Anyway, the issue is that the UM2+ begins it's big round circle of my design file with a nice perfect bead, but when it gets to the detailed outlines in the middle the filament lifts off of the build plate.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Les

[neotko 1,417]

- Some pla brands/color need glue

- First layer could be going too fast

- First layer could be too thin

- Most probably you need to relevel the bed

- Some users print the first layer hotter to help adhesion (I never do that but some do)

[SandervG 1,521]

And what filament are you using?

[LesHall 95]

I am printing with filament that has performed well in the past. I tried www.atomicfilament.com first, which is from a one man shop who is crazy about quality first and value second - recommend you give the site a look. Also just tried MeltInk filament which has worked well in the past also.

I don't think it's the filament unless it has gotten humid from leaving it out, but there are no sputters from the nozzle during print - still could be humidity i guess. Problem seems to be near the center of the bed not the edges, btw...

it could be the first layer going too fast as the travel speed looks way too high for some reason. I reloaded all software and updated firmware, even downloaded beta Cura and such, so I'm thinking not. unless i did that in the wrong order. I will check it.

Les

[LesHall 95]

Just checked the travel speed as the print head seemed to be jerking around awfully fast, it's 150mm/s isn't that way too high?

Les

[SandervG 1,521]

150mm/s can be right for travel speed yes. But the first layer is usually printed around 30mm/s (but printing speed is different from travelling speed).

I asked about the filament because besides being good quality or bad, PLA requires a different temperature from the bed than ABS. (60ºC vs. 100ºC)

An adhesive can also be recommended, depending on what filament you use.

Is the filament lifting immediately or after a while into the printjob?

[LesHall 95]

It's lifting after a while into the print. And it seems to have improved with the lower travel speed. Still one small part turned out wrong. I think now that the printer is all tuned up it's just a case of old slightly humidified filament. I'm going to try adhesive next.

Les

[SandervG 1,521]

Is it ABS or PLA, or something else?

You could try to shield of the front of your Ultimaker (maybe as an experiment) and see how that affects your adhesion.

[neotko 1,417]

Indeed abs needs glue or glue (also it's good to avoid damaging the glass). Pla imo with cheap brands I had issues, but never with faber/colorfabb at 60C and a REALLY clean glass. Sometimes the pla leaves invisible prticles and it's good to take it out once a month or so to clean with soap.

Also that unstick does it happen when the fans start? If they are full after the first/second layer it shouldn't happen but it can happen with some brands.

[LesHall 95]

It looks like it was a combination of the machine settings and bed leveling being out of whack, plus a case of the ole stale filament because the print is now flawless on the first layer! Thanks for your help, the glue idea worked. I put down two coats of extra-purple Elmer's glue stick and the adhesion is excellent.

Les

[LesHall 95]

The part printed flawlessly, now I am printing the gears that go on it. I have learned to keep the printer in better tuned up precision and bed cleanliness, plus also use glue with older filament spools. So much to know in 3D printing - keeps me busy!

Les

p.s. thanks for the help, it's the community that makes the experience work. I tell people who ask me about shopping for a printer, I say: "Look for a thriving community, then compare printers."

[rowiac 53]

I've noticed that the default settings for PLA in Cura 2.3 have the fan turn on immediately, rather than after the first layer as on the previous versions (well, at least on the Windows version).

Having the fan off will help that first layer adhere. I went into the advanced settings and had the fan come on at Layer 1 rather than Layer 0. You may want to check that on your system.

[LesHall 95]

Thank you Rowlec, I will check that out.

Les

[gr5 2,173]

my standard answer although I suspect you need to level a little closer to glass (#6 below):

lifting corners, curling corners, part sticking to glass

1) Make sure the glass is clean if you haven't cleaned it for a few weeks. You want a very thin coat of PVA glue which is found in hairspray, glue stick, wood glue. If you use glue stick or wood glue you need to dilute it with water - about 5 to 10 parts water to 1 part glue. So for example if you use glue stick, apply only to the outer edge of your model outline then add a tablespoon of water and spread with a tissue such that you thin it so much you can't see it anymore. wood glue is better. hairspray doesn't need to be diluted. When it dries it should be invisible. This glue works well for most plastics.

2) Heat the bed. This helps the plastic fill in completely (no air pockets) so you have better contact with the glass. For PLA any temp above 40C is safe. I often print at 60C bed.

3) heat the bed (didn't I already say that?). Keeping the bottom layers above the glass temp of the material makes it so the bottom layers can flex a bit (very very tiny amount) and relieve the tension/stress. For PLA 60C is better than 50C. 70C is even better but then you get other "warping" like issues at the corners where they move inward but if you are desperate it's worth it. For ABS you want 110C (100C is good enough).

4) rounded corners - having square corners puts all the lifting force on a tiny spot. Rounding the corner spreads the force out more. This is optional if you use brim.

5) Brim - this is the most important of all. Turn on the brim feature in cura and do 10 passes of brim. This is awesome.

6) Squish - make sure the bottom layer is squishing onto the glass with no gaps in the brim. The first trace going down should be flat like a pancake, not rounded like string. don't run the leveling procedure if it is off, just turn the 3 screws the same amount while it is printing the skirt or brim. Counter clockwise from below gets the bed closer to the nozzle. Don't panic, take a breath, think about which way to move the glass, think about how the screw works, then twist. This may take 30 seconds but it's worth it to not rush it. You can always restart the print.

If you do all this you will then ask me "how the hell do I get my part off the glass?". Well first let it cool completely. Or even put it in the freezer. Then use a sharp putty knife under a corner and it should pop off.

[LePaul 321]

I've noticed that the default settings for PLA in Cura 2.3 have the fan turn on immediately, rather than after the first layer as on the previous versions (well, at least on the Windows version).

Having the fan off will help that first layer adhere.  I went into the advanced settings and had the fan come on at Layer 1 rather than Layer 0.  You may want to check that on your system.

 

You read my mind...I was going to mention that! (I appreciate you detailing the fix, too)