Ultimaker 2+ feeder problem

[LePaul 331]

Well I have been doing 14-hour prints with success until the third one.

10 hours into the print it looks like I got a filament kink.

I didn't have time before leaving for work to address the problem, but thought I was ask for some suggestions before Ultimaker staff are gone for the day (Darn time zones)

I see filament all through the bowden, but here is what I see outside the feeder....

So disappointed...since the print just kept on going, there's no way to save this large job.

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi LePaul,

Good to hear you have been nicely printing away with your Ultimaker 2+!

I am not entirely sure what you are asking, on how to straighten your filament or how this kink got in the first place?

What is the bowden tube full off? Dirt and remainders of grinding of the filament?

Is it no longer feeding?

Thanks!

[LePaul 331]

The tube is full of filament. I haven't removed the material yet

My worry is that this will happen again, should the filament kink...even though it goes directly, off the spool, in to the feeder

[SandervG 1,521]

How is it possible the kink got in there in the first place, any ideas?

[LePaul 331]

None!  I am only 1/3 of the way into that roll.

I would understand if I was at the end of the roll

Some suggested the ball bearing style guides on Youmagine.  

I had another failure last night  :(

I noticed the printer made a "rumbling" sound as the print head passed over the object.  This caused the support material to tip and one of the supported pieces failed.  I'm not sure why this happened?

Edit: Wanted to mention, I do have coasting on...not sure that would cause such a problem on a large part. And again, no changes to the gcode...I have print two successfully before.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Guest
Edit

[LePaul 331]

I am really getting mad at this printer.

It failed on the support material again. And then Ultimaker brand filament managed to kink itself up and jam the feeder. Half a roll of filament has been failed prints.

I can't attach photos using my phone, for some reason. I will do so shortly.

[LePaul 331]

Pictures... :(

Super filament spool tangle....

And the support structure fails on the bottom of the print (note it is facing you, not vertical)

I just want to be one of those people who slices in Cura, pushes in the SD card and gets perfect prints!

[SandervG 1,521]

Do you have any more information on this specific reel of filament?

Is it old? new?

Usually if it gets tangled up, there has been a moment where you (by accident?) let go of the end of your filament, and it uncoiled itself. There is a risk of when putting it back on the reel, this can get tangled up later.

It doesn't look like a hardware problem to me.

Do you print your support at a certain speed, or have you tried different patterns?

Have you tried a different reel, to see how that goes?

Doesn't mean we can't trouble shoot this one, but if it goes alright it is kinda clear that this filament is the source of your problem. Helps us to focus on something.

Thanks!

[LePaul 331]

Hi Sander

1) Spool just seems to be hexxed or cursed. I haven't encountered so many feed problems on a spool of filament before, asides the occasional tangle.

I have some bearings on order to print some filament guides others have mentioned on Thingiverse and Youmagine

2) Using Cura 2.3.0, I have left many of the defaults intact. Changes were made to resolution (0.2), infill (50%) and walls/top-bottom thinkness (1.2mm). Support material has been "lines" and I seemed to hear the print head bumping into it the previous attempt, so I made this change...

I increased the bed temp to 68C.

Coasting is on.

Again, the biggest frustration is I had two successful prints, but the past two have failed.

[LePaul 331]

Here's a picture of the model in Cura, so you can see those bottom two pieces in the middle that are becoming troublesome.

[StephanK 30]

Did it actually get tied in a knot or did it get stuck because of the angle it comes off the spool?

Looks like you're having the "end of spool"-blues. It's been driving me crazy as well. I think the UM2+ needs a filament guide like the UM2 has and to be honest, I think the original spool holder isn't terribly good to beginn with.

I ended up replacing the whole spool holder with something very similar to IrobertIs design here: https://www.youmagine.com/designs/low-friction-um2-spoolholder and in addition printed a free standing holder that i use for more brittle filaments to feed in a less angled path, Between those two my problems went away.

[Torgeir 266]

Hi LePaul,

I'm very sorry to see this, however, you will be one of those printing perfect print every time I'm sure!

So what happened here?  As the filament is “grabbed” on the “outside of the loop” and forced to bend against its memorized (born) position, it will always try to go back to the memorized position. If there is a slightly mating offset, the filament will easily go the way it is guided and stay at this side. The result is a filament that is twisted all the time when it is feeding toward one side or the other, and then ending up as your picture shows.

The other more “normal” effect of using the outside curve of the filament for feeder wheel, is the additional friction that’s created in the top of the bowden tube under load, the higher the load the more friction (as the rough track from the feeder wheel grab into top of the Teflon house(the bowden tube)! So, at high load, the filament will be forced toward the top of the bowden tube and acting as some sort of a brake.

So what is the solution for you?

Since you've already upgraded to a 2+ version, the feeder should be repositioned to the right side of the back (looking from the front side), the side where the number two feeder was planed to go.

If the feeder is installed there, the feeder track line will be on the inside of the natural loop of the feeder. This is the place where there is less friction when feed through the bowden tube. Do this and I'm sure you'll be as happy as those always print nice..  

Sure, there is another one as well; put back the old feeder.. :(  -Or roll off the filament from the spool and put it on a chair, like here.

https://www.google.no/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-qvwFZPYqluE%2FVGyuJEqn_1I%2FAAAAAAAAXOU%2FOOGJ5Xxg6J0%2Fs1600%2F20141119_090515.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fultimaker2prints.blogspot.com%2F2014%2F11%2Fdont-over-tighten-material-feeder.html&docid=jJHSqoyT_e8uRM&tbnid=vqMNTgFJk-YgQM%3A&w=1600&h=900&bih=1132&biw=1920&ved=0ahUKEwiE-rqvnIjQAhVH3SwKHY-MDUM4ZBAzCEQoQjBC&iact=mrc&uact=8

Here is some pictures about the issues:

Edit: I marked the filament with a black line, to make the track visible through the bowden tube. First outer path, then the inner path (inside and outside the loop).

This first one is when the track line is on the outside loop.

As you see, the track line is going all the way at the top if you're using outside feeder wheel route.

Edit:

So where did it go when using the inside part of the filament loop for the feeder wheel to drive the filament?

Starting at the feeder, track is inside the loop.

And at the extruder, inside the loop.

Well, this is all and I'll hope that things sink in now...

If you like to dig into the post, there is several engineers pointing this out.

For those with the old black feeding unit (Ultimaker 2 version), just turn it around so the back become the front, and you'll become a happy 3D printing member as well.

Here is a little more:

I'll think that the design engineer NEVER wanted the feeder to go this way. (?)

So how can I assume this? Well, have a closer look at the old stock (black) feeder unit and you will find that on one side there is one hole larger than the others. Actually, this is the front side as the engineer/designer made it. This extra wide hole is to allow you to remove the front side of the extrude hose in order to clean out dust/particles without loosening the fourth screw holding the other part of the feeder half and the feeder stepper motor.

Here's a picture of the one half of the old feeder with no 4 scew:

Here's a picture of the old feeder with no 4 scew and top cover half loosely installed:

Here's what I've want to show you, and I'm really hope this attempt start some forward moving. If not all three printers (UM2, 2+ and 3 (left extruder when looking from front) will suffer due to this problem.

When writing this, I do hope I did not offend anyone as this never was my intention.

Thanks

Torgeir.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Guest

[LePaul 331]

Wow that is a very detail post, thank you @Torgeir

@stephank , you're right. It is acting as if it is at the end of the roll. This started happening 1/3 into a new roll of Ultimaker PLA.

I was a little surprised the filament guide is absent from the 2+ printers.

I know others found a work around by just clipping the amount of material they will need off the spool.

[bondtech 25]

Hi @LePaul, I just want to inform you that there is a solution available to feeding related problems and that is our Bondtech Extruder that never slips or grind the filament. We have many happy Ultimaker customers. If you want more information you can contact me at martin@bondtech.se

[LePaul 331]

Hi @LePaul, I just want to inform you that there is a solution available to feeding related problems and that is our Bondtech Extruder that never slips or grind the filament. We have many happy Ultimaker customers. If you want more information you can contact me at martin@bondtech.se

 

Hi @bondtech,

I have looked at your product these past few days. If the filament guides and faulty spool do not resolve this...we will be talking.

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @Torgeir,

Thank you for your detailed post.

What I understood from reading it, but not so certain from looking at the photo's you suggest to remove the feeder from an Ultimaker 2+ from the (looking from the front) left back side and move it to the right backside? With the intention that the curvature of the filament when you reach the end of a reel won't cause so much friction?

If you also have to invert the reel itself.. wouldn't that kinda eliminate moving the feeder? In my mind it does, plus your photo's don't really support this idea so I am kinda assuming I didn't get your point

[Torgeir 266]

Hi Sander,

Thanks.

When I saw this post I installed the extra feeder unit I've into my printer installed two rolls of filament and shot another picture and here it is.

I'll hope this better describe my point in this topics.

Edit: One small note here: This have been my setup from day one and I never had any issue with the feeder, none! Also, the filament stay where it should be.

Any question, just fire off..

Regards.

Torgeir.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Guest