Cura Build Volume for Ultimaker 3

[korneel 176]

Hi;

getting some strange results here;

trying to print something in Dual Extrusion.

according to the specs, the printer supports 197 x 215 x 200 mm using dual extrusion.

according to Cura, when scaling to max size, my object can only be 18.2 over the X axis.. that's 1.5 cm's that I need..

so is Cura wrong or is the spec wrong?

what is the next step?

[korneel 176]

nevermind, found the solution.. but i don't like the solutions I found :(

[korneel 176]

ok I'm still dissatisfied.

i tried printing the large volume and honestly, when using dual extrusion, you can't really do that without some form of priming. so disabling the prime tower is not really an option..

@SandervG .. honestly, I think the build volume should be updated on the website. while not technically wrong, it is near impossible to use.

if you substract the priming tower, which you kinda need for PVA, you loose quite the amount of surface. if you use the default settings in Cura, or even the settings you can see, you are about 1.5 to 2 cm away from the specified print volume. that is quite the percentage..

I had to search the community to find out all the trickery i had to do to fit objects in.. and i could not work a prime tower in, which when printing with PVA is not fun, which you could normally fix with the horizontal expansion with support.. which you must also disable..

so while the spec is technically correct (and yes, that's the best form of correct), it is not a realistic build volume..

[nallath 1,120]

ok I'm still dissatisfied.

i tried printing the large volume and honestly, when using dual extrusion, you can't really do that without some form of priming. so disabling the prime tower is not really an option..

@SandervG .. honestly, I think the build volume should be updated on the website. while not technically wrong, it is near impossible to use.

if you substract the priming tower, which you kinda need for PVA, you loose quite the amount of surface. if you use the default settings in Cura, or even the settings you can see, you are about 1.5 to 2 cm away from the specified print volume. that is quite the percentage..  

I had to search the community to find out all the trickery i had to do to fit objects in.. and i could not work a prime tower in, which when printing with PVA is not fun, which you could normally fix with the horizontal expansion with support.. which you must also disable..

so while the spec is technically correct (and yes, that's the best form of correct), it is not a realistic build volume..

 

You can move the tower, so how can you communicate this build volume? "Depending on the location of the prime tower you have nnxnnxnn build area" isn't that helpfull either.

[DidierKlein 729]

And with some clever position you can also fuse the tower in the support structure (if you can use horizontal expansion), which really helps for the stability

[korneel 176]

 

ok I'm still dissatisfied.

i tried printing the large volume and honestly, when using dual extrusion, you can't really do that without some form of priming. so disabling the prime tower is not really an option..

@SandervG .. honestly, I think the build volume should be updated on the website. while not technically wrong, it is near impossible to use.

if you substract the priming tower, which you kinda need for PVA, you loose quite the amount of surface. if you use the default settings in Cura, or even the settings you can see, you are about 1.5 to 2 cm away from the specified print volume. that is quite the percentage..  

I had to search the community to find out all the trickery i had to do to fit objects in.. and i could not work a prime tower in, which when printing with PVA is not fun, which you could normally fix with the horizontal expansion with support.. which you must also disable..

so while the spec is technically correct (and yes, that's the best form of correct), it is not a realistic build volume..

 

You can move the tower, so how can you communicate this build volume? "Depending on the location of the prime tower you have nnxnnxnn build area" isn't that helpfull either.

 

well, moving the tower doesn't really help if your object is square..

what I would recommend is to set the specs for the default print volume a it is with Cura out of the box. that would be realistic.

right now, the print volume is set as the max area with fifteen asterisks.. so you can reach that max print volume with dual extrusion IF you disable the prime towers, disable skirt, disable horizontal expansion, disable a part of the travel etc. etc.

that is a lot of asterisks..

[SandervG 1,521]

I see how it can be confusing, but it is true that this is the build volume you can use. Technically, but also.. well.. normally A wipe tower is not always necessary, so I agree that a disclaimer or description of different scenarios could just add to the confusion.

What could be a solution then...

I can imagine that having to search for the solution is part of feeling frustrated, maybe in Cura there could be a message or intuitive way of indicating that a wipe tower make your build volume a bit smaller?

What do you think?

Most people expect it to list the max possible build volume.

No one lists a smaller build volume, and with an asterisk mention, well.. you can also print bigger if you disable these and these settings.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Guest

[korneel 176]

I see how it can be confusing, but it is true that this is the build volume you can use. Technically, but also.. well.. normally A wipe tower is not always necessary, so I agree that a disclaimer or description of different scenarios could just add to the confusion.

What could be a solution then...

I can imagine that having to search for the solution is part of feeling frustrated, maybe in Cura there could be a message or intuitive way of indicating that a wipe tower make your build volume a bit smaller?

What do you think?

Most people expect it to list the max possible build volume.

No one lists a smaller build volume, and with an asterisk mention, well.. you can also print bigger if you disable these and these settings.

 

totally understand that this is a hard egg to crack.. but still.. if i buy a printer and i load a model that is smaller then advertised, and I can't print it.. I might be annoyed.

sure, the wipe tower might not always be needed, but horizontal expansion is seriously needed when doing PVA..  

so perhaps there might be at least an asterisk that indicates that the volume is " fluid"  so to say..

[korneel 176]

I see how it can be confusing, but it is true that this is the build volume you can use. Technically, but also.. well.. normally A wipe tower is not always necessary, so I agree that a disclaimer or description of different scenarios could just add to the confusion.

What could be a solution then...

I can imagine that having to search for the solution is part of feeling frustrated, maybe in Cura there could be a message or intuitive way of indicating that a wipe tower make your build volume a bit smaller?

What do you think?

Most people expect it to list the max possible build volume.

No one lists a smaller build volume, and with an asterisk mention, well.. you can also print bigger if you disable these and these settings.

 

totally understand that this is a hard egg to crack.. but still.. if i buy a printer and i load a model that is smaller then advertised, and I can't print it.. I might be annoyed.

sure, the wipe tower might not always be needed, but horizontal expansion is seriously needed when doing PVA..  

so perhaps there might be at least an asterisk that indicates that the volume is " fluid"  so to say..

[tinkergnome 927]

totally understand that this is a hard egg to crack.. but still.. if i buy a printer and i load a model that is smaller then advertised, and I can't print it.. I might be annoyed.

sure, the wipe tower might not always be needed, but horizontal expansion is seriously needed when doing PVA..  

so perhaps there might be at least an asterisk that indicates that the volume is " fluid"  so to say..

 

my two cents:

IMHO none of your arguments are related to the specifications of the printer, instead you're talking about restrictions of the slicer.

I think one should not mix-up these things. The printer has a specified build volume and that's correctly stated on the data sheet. Point.

If one wants to prepare print files with Cura (free of charge) there are some restrictions / settings that are leading to the fact that Cura can not use the whole build volume out of the box... so what...

With other words: the free slicer in it's current version does not use the full potential of the device. That's not ideal from the manufacturer's perspective, but does not change the technical data of the printer, does it?

The printer and Cura are not strictly bundled. If any - the "asterisks" has to be added to the Cura manual, not for the printer.

[korneel 176]

 

totally understand that this is a hard egg to crack.. but still.. if i buy a printer and i load a model that is smaller then advertised, and I can't print it.. I might be annoyed.

sure, the wipe tower might not always be needed, but horizontal expansion is seriously needed when doing PVA..  

so perhaps there might be at least an asterisk that indicates that the volume is " fluid"  so to say..

 

my two cents:

IMHO none of your arguments are related to the specifications of the printer, instead you're talking about restrictions of the slicer.

I think one should not mix-up these things. The printer has a specified build volume and that's correctly stated on the data sheet. Point.

If one wants to prepare print files with Cura (free of charge) there are some restrictions / settings that are leading to the fact that Cura can not use the whole build volume out of the box... so what...

With other words: the free slicer in it's current version does not use the full potential of the device. That's not ideal from the manufacturer's perspective, but does not change the technical data of the printer, does it?

The printer and Cura are not strictly bundled. If any - the "asterisks" has to be added to the Cura manual, not for the printer.

 

in the end, it's a limitation in the printer.. for 2 reasons

first of all, it's a complete package. i buy the printer and I need to use Cura for that. Cura is the packaged software, it's a complete package for me, so there should be no difference. limitation in the slicer is a limitation in the total package.

secondly, even with a different slicer, i would need to expand on the PVA and have something like a prime tower.

i do understand your point and as i said before, it's difficult. how do you present limitations in your offer without discouraging people from buying this?

let me think about this.

[tinkergnome 927]

secondly, even with a different slicer, i would need to expand on the PVA and have something like a prime tower.

 

I see, our opinions differ not soooo much..

Well, call me a nitpicker... - but if one uses "horizontal expansion" the sliced model becomes bigger (yes - for sure - the supports are part of the sliced model). And the bigger model has to fit into the build volume. I don't believe that someone has different expectations...? (it's the same with an ooze shield, draft shield, skirt, brim,.. whatever...)

During the beta test I printed nearly all PVA tests without a prime tower. That worked just fine - just try it out. I regard this as a benefit of the printer, not as a limitation...

Sorry, but I disagree about another point: You don't need to use Cura. The printer already works with gcode from other slicers and I'm sure, that this will be even more simple in the future.

I agree, that Ultimaker should provide printer definitions for Cura that are allowing the use of the whole print volume (especially for single extrusion). I assume this is only a matter of time and finally: it's open source...

[fabreax 15]

Do you manage to print PLA+PVA without prime tower ?

[tomnagel 126]

Do you manage to print PLA+PVA without prime tower ?

 

Cura 2.4 (available in Beta) has some new features, making it possible to disable the prime tower in most of the printing profiles (amongst which are the PLA/PVA profiles), while retaining print quality. Saves material and printing time!

[fabreax 15]

 

Do you manage to print PLA+PVA without prime tower ?

 

Cura 2.4 (available in Beta) has some new features, making it possible to disable the prime tower in most of the printing profiles (amongst which are the PLA/PVA profiles), while retaining print quality. Saves material and printing time!

 

Thanks ! It works very well :

What are your support distance settings ? I'm using X/Y and Z distance equal to 0 :

[tomnagel 126]

What are your support distance settings ? I'm using X/Y and Z distance equal to 0 :

 

I only use the default settings, I'm not sure what they are. These work really well.

What is the pink support material? Is that some form of PVA?

[fabreax 15]

The pink material is "Formfutura Atlas Support" PVA. I can see what has not been dissolved because it's not transparent.

[fabreax 15]

Do not use X/Y distance = 0, it will cause little holes in the part due to PVA residues.

[eldrick 65]

Ultimaker has overstated the possible print volume and dimensions since the Ultimaker 2.

Call it simple lying or call it marketing, the machine cannot print an object of the stated size.

[fabreax 15]

And with Simplify3D ?