UM3 first print PVA mess

[muffinkiller86 0]

I've recently upgraded from 2+ to 3 and for my first print I decided to make use of the PVA for supports. I used the filament that came with the UM.

I have ran calibration.

This was what I woke up too (I aborted):

Also surprised by the times. I've printed parts this large before and the most they have taken is around 14 hours. This quoted 42h on the machine.

Settings: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/7o8zg32be0a6u84/2016-11-10%20at%2010.04.png

Model: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7543934/gun_bodyFront.stl

Ideas?

Edited November 11, 2016 by Guest

[DidierKlein 729]

Please use the forum gallery to upload images!

(First image is invalid)

Hard to help you!

[fbrc8-erin 298]

Hi, MuffinKiller86,

Regarding the print time, you're going to see longer times for dual extrusion prints compared to single extrusion prints the same size because every time the printer switches from one material to the other, it's going to take time to cool down the first nozzle and heat the second. It's designed this way to help prevent oozing across the model, but it does add more time to the printing.

Can you use less infill? Or go into the advanced settings and increase the layer height? I printed an model based off Escher's Relativity earlier this week and took the time down from about 3 days to 2 days by increasing from a .15 layer height to .2 and it still came out pretty well.

The image isn't coming through for your print, but one thing I've noticed with the UM3, is that I'm getting better results using a glue wash on the bed. With the UM2/UM2+ I very rarely used glue on the bed with PLA, but I'm finding it does make a difference when printing on the UM3.

[muffinkiller86 0]

I re-added the image. The external image embed doesn't like google photos it seems.

> Can you use less infill? Or go into the advanced settings and increase the layer height?

I can, but I wanted this part to be stronger. I've used this infill amount before. Maybe I'm crazy but I could swear the infill is 'thicker' with UM3 rather than just more lines.

R/e glue same here, but my first layer was perfect in this case. It was the higher ups which went to pot.

[IRobertI 521]

PVA has a hard time sticking to PLA so on top of the model it can be a bit difficult to get it to stick sometimes. Make sure that "Support Bottom Thickness" isn't set to 0 so that you get a solid layer on top of the PLA, this helps.

You can also reduce the print time quite significantly in some cases by reducing the size of the prime tower. I've printed it down to 5mm square IIRC. The trick is to move your part so that the support connects to the wipe tower to keep it stable. And you can also try disabling it completely, I've printed a couple of things without it and it worked fine.

Finally, there's a separate setting for infill line width so yes, it can be thicker. You can add in that setting by clicking the gear icon that appears when hovering over the "Quality" header in the settings to the right.

[muffinkiller86 0]

Darn, I tried all of that and the next one failed too. This time the support structure got too weak towards the top and stopped the PLA adhering to itself.

Gonna have to print this the old fashioned way. Disappointed with the dual extrusion so far :(

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi Muffinkiller86,

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

PVA is a different material than PLA, and it also behaves different while printing.

You are now adding this new material to your print experience, so you have to get to know it a little bit. You should not use the same settings as you have been doing for PLA when building support structures.

Did you already take a look at this thread?

Edited November 15, 2016 by Guest

[yellowshark 153]

Hi SandervG, that link is giving me a 404

[ultiarjan 1,223]

You can also reduce the print time quite significantly in some cases by reducing the size of the prime tower. I've printed it down to 5mm square IIRC. The trick is to move your part so that the support connects to the wipe tower to keep it stable. And you can also try disabling it completely, I've printed a couple of things without it and it worked

 

For pla/pva I would advice against that. As the bonding between pla/pva is poor the change of a failing tower is pretty big when you make it smaller. 2 separate small towers seems a beter idea but cura is not supporting that atm

When you don't use a tower at all its mostly ok with pla/pla due to the lower temperatures. But with pva you risk small holes in your item due to pva pollution in your model.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Darn, I tried all of that and the next one failed too. This time the support structure got too weak towards the top and stopped the PLA adhering to itself.

 

If you have small support structures or support starting on pla it might help to play with increasing "horizontal expansion" on the support. But it does make print times even longer

...

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi SandervG, that link is giving me a 404

 

I have fixed the link, could you try again?

It has a lot of useful tips like:

Recommended settings

Temperatures

Ultimaker PVA requires a build plate temperature of 60 °C when printed as a single material. If PVA is printed as a support material, just use the build plate temperature required for the accompanying build material (see the table below). A nozzle temperature between 215-225 °C is used for the Ultimaker PVA print profiles in Cura for the Ultimaker 3 and Ultimaker 3 Extended. For the best results, select the right Ultimaker 3 printer in Cura. When printing via Wi-Fi in a print farm setting it is crucial to select the proper Ultimaker 3 printer. The right print cores will be automatically detected by the Ultimaker 3 and Ultimaker 3 Extended. The NFC chip on the new Ultimaker material spools will automatically load the correct material and printing settings in Cura.

 

PVA - PLA 215ºC-225ºC. Bed: 60ºC. PVA brim, cooling speed 50%

PVA - Nylon 215ºC-225ºC Bed: 60ºC PVA raft, cooling speed 50%

For best results, use 50% print cooling fan speed while PVA is being printed.

[Titus 170]

Hi SandervG, that link is giving me a 404

 

It is working here. It points to: https://ultimaker.com/en/resources/23003-how-to-print-and-store-pva

[yellowshark 153]

Yup working for me now, thank you

[muffinkiller86 0]

I'll try it again when I have a smaller print to do. It's too risky on 48h print jobs