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brunbjoern

UM2+ for ABS - perfect printer?

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Hi,

I am currently struggling with a Da Vinci 2.0A and am looking into buying a new printer. I currently only print ABS as the stuff printed needs to survive summer time in a car.

But more options - more fun. :)

I've got the OK from my wife to shelf out a larger amount of money this time (this is an important first step). UM printers seem to get praised a lot but I am not sure yet if this is the right printer for me. If I order a UM2+ I would get doors as well. I would use high quality filament.

I spent numerous hours reading reviews, forum entries and watching videos but I am at a point where every other review starts to confuse me more and more.

I am aware that this is an Ultimaker (centric) forum. And I am also aware that I would need to spend some time with the printer to get to know it and what works best.

What I am looking for:

- reliable, good quality ABS prints

- durable printer (low maintenance, e.g. hardly ever filament clogging - I've never had this problem with my da Vinci))

- not much tinkering needed (I don't mind tinkering later on, it's fun and I enjoy it a lot but the printer should print reliably from the beginning)

- should print without problems if not used for 2-3 weeks (I never had problems with this, but heard that Ultimaker might have issues here. Is that true?)

Please correct me on the following classification...

UM2+ pros:

- large community

- spare parts available

- open

- good quality PLA prints (tests online seem most of the time to be done with PLA only)

(but what about ABS quality?)

UM2+ cons:

- doors and top cover missing (doors are avaliable, top covers or complete casings are expensive)

- no Ethernet/Wifi (ok, there are some projects out there)

- expensive (yes it's a lot of money :) )

- I cannot use the 1.75mm filament I currently have (without problems or tinkering needed)

Currently with the da Vinci, as it is a closed, dongled system. Filament comes in cartridges and they usually don't have a problem with humidity. With UM+ as well as most of all the rest of the printers the filament is stuck outside. Do you leave it there or do you always unload the filament and store it in a dry place?

I would really appreciate your help and feedback.

I am currently really frustrated because my current printer is a road with a dead end.

I would like to move on and I have a direction but don't know which way exactly to go.

Thank you very much in advance!

Viele Grüße from Germany,

brunbjoern

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I had a davinci aio and a 2.0, both are really really really bad compared to a umo+

But I remember that it did two or 3 things right. Having an enclosed area to make very easy abs prints. Using a directdrive, speed/temp was a new concept when I started with an um, but not because the directdrive but that um print speed is just lightyears from what a davinci can do. Even a bad calibrated um will do better stuff than a davinci. But bowden makes more blobs, drips more when moving from a to b, so you will need to control more elements when printing more than one object at the same time. Also, since the top is open, you will get (imo) the nasty abs smell. That on the davinci was only when I opened the door (still the same thing).

If you really need abs, think about a door and an enclosure with a filter (there's quite a few youmagine models and some shop sells the thing ready to use).

IMO abs is crap, after learning pla, platec, abs is like a joke. The um since can use much more materials it allows you to play with more stuff. But don't thiythat you will be printing wood or flexibles first day, that materials for example, need fine tuning, special care of speed and feeder tension, and a long etc.

If you just want abs, ofc cura team has developed basic profiles so you don't need to adjust much, but the bare minimum for abs is a frontal door to keep the heat around.

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It's easy to get confused reading other people's opinions of various 3D printers. But in all fairness, it's rather difficult to compete with the UM2+. At least at this price point, even if it is expensive. It is a mature and reliable machine that produces high quality prints.

It's as with any other product. Opinions vary. Yes, there are printers that produce better quality. Yes, there are more reliable printers. Yes, there are cheaper printers.

Are there any that can truly claim to have it beat on all three points? If we put on the eyeglasses of neutrality - it's doubtful. There are some that are at least comparable. I will say that whenever you hear someone claiming they have the Ultimaker beat by miles at a much cheaper price point (like it seems trendy to do some places on the internet), I reserve the right to call bullshit.

There are many other excellent printers out there though. I've heard several people raving about the Zortrax M200, for instance. No doubt a solid printer. I hear it's very, very good for ABS printing. High quality prints, apparently very reliable, cheaper than the UM2+. I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole because of the closed ecosystem around it. I want versatility and hackability. I want to feed it whatever odd filament I stumble across. But that's just me.

You say you want ABS because your prints must survive elevated temperature. ABS is just one such choice. As neotko mentioned, there's PLATEC. I've been playing with ASA quite a bit too. Both of which don't stink up the house :)

Edited by Guest
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ABS warps a lot and does not easily stick to a glass build plate. And its smell is toxic.

There are materials that are as heat-resistant and strong, but that do warp far less, stick better, and are not toxic: PET, more and more polyesters, high-temp PLA, nylon, PC,... And there will be more developed in the next years. So more and more people seem to move away from ABS.

An UM2 has the advantage that you can print all sorts of materials from all a lot of different manufacturers, as long as it is 2.85mm diameter, and not too flexible (as it is hard to push an elastic rubber band through a bowden tube). But every material (and every printer) has a learning curve, thus expect that.

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Hi there,

The others posts here have talked about the flexibility of the UM2+, alternatives to ABS that meet your requirements and about the Zortrax being good at ABS but with other potential downsides.

But I just wanted to mention, specifically, you can get very good ABS results with a UM2(+). But maybe not quite out of the box.

Traditional issues have been bed adhesion and warping. But with the new door+sheet addon from Ultimaker, or with BuildTak/PrintInZ/3DLac/ABS Juice/ABS Puck/etc. and some kind of enclosing, you can make it work.

Plus, you also get all the other great capabilities of the UM2+. :)

For enclosing, you can buy or build a front cover. For a top cover I use a plastic tote box from an office supply store that had good dimensions. I saw one person printed adapter clips to make a tote box work. Others have used giant turkey basting bags, vinyl table cloths, cardboard boxes, folded paper, fancy acrylic custom covers, etc. There are even a couple commercial offerings you can buy.

With enclosing to control ambient temperature and some kind of adhesion solution, ABS works just fine on a UM2+. But again, not so much out of the box.

As for smell and venting, you already have experience with that, but there are odourless ABSes out there like those from FormFutura.

All this said, I personally have only limited experience with ABS on UM2(+), but the above comes from both personal experience and a lot of reading of the UM forums.

I will say, that pretty much other than, say, PEEK, I have not found a material or object that I could not print on an UM2(+). So, you do definitely get a flexible machine that you can grow in to and experiment with. But as others have said, there are other options out there, so do your research. :)

Anyway, I hope this helps. Good luck! :)

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Hello everyone,

many thanks for your replies and help provided! It is really appreciated!

I have ordered an UM2+ last night with a roll of ABS filament from Verbatim and am looking forward to give it a try.

I hope it doesn't get too frustrating before getting good prints.

I will let you know and I hope I don't have to cry out loud too many times for help. :)

Viele Grüße,

brunbjoern

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I think you made a good choice. There's always grumbling about the price, but very few people who have prior experience with 3D printers wind up disappointed by the UM2+. I bought one. Played around with it for a couple of months getting happier and happier with it. And then I bought another. So watch yourself :p

Also, forgive me for prying... I know your location says Germany but are you somehow related to Scandinavia?

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@Brunbjoern, congratulations and welcome to the forums! :)

Like some have already mentioned, there are a few tricks you can do that will make your ABS prints easier, I would certainly look at those. Especially the door. We have an advanced 3D printing kit that has a door and some adhesion sheets you could look at, but if you are mostly interested in the door you might as well be better off to make one your self. There are a few options on YouMagine.

Cura has some pretty good default profiles for ABS, however, they are customized for Ultimaker ABS. So I can't tell you if they will work similarly to Verbatim ABS.

I assume your Ultimaker 2+ will also come with 1 reel of PLA? I would like to recommend you start with PLA first.

That way you can get familiar with the printing process, how the material behaves and how the bed works. PLA is easier to print with and will allow you to get familiar with the machine and build some confidence.

Then, you should know what to aim for when you start with ABS.

Good luck, and curious to see what you will be making :)

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I have ordered an UM2+ last night with a roll of ABS filament from Verbatim and am looking forward to give it a try.

I hope it doesn't get too frustrating before getting good prints.

 

I have had two UM2+'s (sold one and got a UM3) and I did get frustrated trying to print ABS.  I got it to work but not before I invested in an enclosure (search this forum for After Market Enclosure for a good discussion) and got good at putting down Klapton tape.  I have now given up on ABS in favour of anything else depending on the temperature requirements.  I would suggest that the moment you get frustrated with ABS, and I think you might, try one of the alternatives mentioned above.  In fact, I would order up an alternative reel now!  I love my UM2+ but have lost my love of ABS (developed when I had a Makerbot clone).

Edited by Guest

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I have a UM2 and have been printing exclusively with ABS with excellent results. As I'm sure you have already heard you need to keep the heat in. Print cooling is off. I don't have a door but I do have a plastic bin that's the perfect size sitting on top of the system. This seems to be all I need as it reduces convective currents through the machine (helping keep the heat in). I run the bed at 110C and use WolfBite to coat the glass for good adhesion. WolfBite is awesome. Parts hold tight when building but afterward as the glass cools the parts pop off on their own. I doubt you will be disappointed with your choice.

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Print cooling is off.

 WolfBite is awesome.  

 

First, Is WolfBite easy to apply?  Adhesion has been one of my issues with anything but Klapton tape which I find to be a pain.  I occasionally want to print something in ABS (for smoothing) but talk myself out of it as opposed to Kaptoning the glass.

Second, my other problem with ABS is with fine details.  I had a Makerbot clone and a directed fan that made that kind of detail work possible that I have not been able to duplicate on my UM2+ (but that does work pretty well on the UM3).  DO you do prints like what I am describing and if so how do you get a good result?  Here is an image of a model that I struggled doing with ABS on my UM2's:  The details on the top of the hull would not have that definition.

TankPainting205.jpg

I don't mean to hijack you thread @brunbjoern!

Edited by Guest

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I have done my first test prints with the PLA provided with the printer. That was easy and the result looked good.

I have now ordered a door and a top cover to be able to print ABS and also ordered a roll of ApolloX to give this a try. I got feedback from another user who had problems printing larger pieces with ApolloX.

GrimJeeper91, unfortunately, WolfBite doesn't seem to be available around here.

SytaxTerror, no I'm not from Scandinavia. Some years ago I have visited Skansen Zoo in Stockholm and liked the swedish name for brown bear. Now I would rather choose the icelandic name for pandas: bambusbjörn :)

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Print cooling is off.

 WolfBite is awesome.  

 

First, Is WolfBite easy to apply?  Adhesion has been one of my issues with anything but Klapton tape which I find to be a pain.  I occasionally want to print something in ABS (for smoothing) but talk myself out of it as opposed to Kaptoning the glass.

Second, my other problem with ABS is with fine details.  I had a Makerbot clone and a directed fan that made that kind of detail work possible that I have not been able to duplicate on my UM2+ (but that does work pretty well on the UM3).  DO you do prints like what I am describing and if so how do you get a good result?  Here is an image of a model that I struggled doing with ABS on my UM2's:  The details on the top of the hull would not have that definition.

TankPainting205.jpg

I don't mean to hijack you thread @brunbjoern!

 

Yes WolfBite is easy to apply as it's a solution that you brush on in a thin layer and it dries very fast. For higher detail you might need to experiment with some fan usage or slowing down the print toward the top of the print.

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SytaxTerror, no I'm not from Scandinavia. Some years ago I have visited Skansen Zoo in Stockholm and liked the swedish name for brown bear. Now I would rather choose the icelandic name for pandas: bambusbjörn :)

 

Well you had me wondering for a bit!

And yes the Icelandic language has fantastic words for everything, since they stubbornly refuse to adopt any loan words. There are actual laws to keep such words out of the language. They prefer to figure out something new themselves. Hell, even such a thing as AIDS got renamed. No wonder "panda" didn't make it either :)

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GrimJeeper91, unfortunately, WolfBite doesn't seem to be available around here.

 

I believe WolfBite is simpye acetone with ABS dissolved into it so perhaps you can make your own.  When you brush it on in a thin layer the acetone quickly evaporates leaving a thin film of ABS behind it.  I'm not kidding when I say the parts pop off on their own.  As the tray cools you can hear cracking sounds of the ABS releasing from the glass.  If you wait for the glass to come to room temperature the parts will literally jump up when they finally release.

Edited by Guest

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I wanted to give some feedback after some weeks of printing with ABS.

After printing successfully with the silver PLA provided I got myself a door and a top cover and started printing ABS.

I got ABS filament from Ultimaker in order to reduce fiddling with parameters and once the bed was correctly levelled the prints came out very well. I am preparing the bed with the UHU glue stick and prints so far stick very well.

With the UM I produce almost no scrap, everything comes out fine. Compared to the Da Vinci prints the quality is much better, altough it prints slower (Cura settings: 0.4mm nozzle and fast printing compared to 0.4mm nozzle and normal speed on S3D and the Da Vinci).

I am quite happy!

Thanks again for your advice!

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