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Tiger91

Printing with TPU95A?

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I just got TPU95A and have been working with it.  It seems to be OK for printing simple structures that require almost no jumping, but anything that is large, more complex than a cylinder, or requires support seems to cause ugly stringing that ruins the print and prevents layers from sticking to each other.

 

Is there a way around this?  Also, is there any way to have successful dual prints with this material and PLA/Nylon/etc?

 

Thanks

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8 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

I think most have used NinjaFlex and others, so it may be that. I do not have experience with that specific filament meself. But I have printed a few dinosaurs with the NinjaFlex materials.

 

Also, what printer and slicer are you using?

I'm using the ultimaker 3 with the most current cura slicer. 

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16 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

I think it is a question of playing with temps and speed and retractions. And, no matter what, if you look at prints across the web, there seem to be more strings and such on elaborate shapes.

My main issue is that the stringing prevents adhesion between layers - even simple shapes that are a few millimeters high.  I've come back to prints only to see them turn into silly string.

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Maybe no real help, but i printed dual prints of TPU95A red with PLA as a sealing (was not airtight) on a UM3E successful. Quality rose as i dried the filament. And i tried to avoid supports by using 45°-60°ramps/overhangs and 8-corner holes. Printing a phone case was ok, but the material is too weak for that. All done with the UM-Profiles and a little tweaking.

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2 hours ago, Tiger91 said:

My main issue is that the stringing prevents adhesion between layers - even simple shapes that are a few millimeters high.  I've come back to prints only to see them turn into silly string.

On the flex materials I have used (NinjaTek) I had to crank the temp and lower the speed otherwise it would drag a noodle of filament around and not bond with the layer below.

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20 hours ago, dxp said:

Maybe no real help, but i printed dual prints of TPU95A red with PLA as a sealing (was not airtight) on a UM3E successful. Quality rose as i dried the filament. And i tried to avoid supports by using 45°-60°ramps/overhangs and 8-corner holes. Printing a phone case was ok, but the material is too weak for that. All done with the UM-Profiles and a little tweaking.

So you can't really use supports with TIPU?  I've been trying but have had no luck.

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3 hours ago, Tiger91 said:

So you can't really use supports with TIPU?

Well, i just avoided it. TPU as support would be a mess. Adhesion on PLA is maybe too good to use it as support material, never tried it that way.

I got better results with dry filament (3-5hrs @ 90°C) and slow speeds. It all depends on the actual model.

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I tried UMs TPU for the first time last night.  Actually first time I've printed flexible material of any kind.

 

I printed a Benchy that came out very well, and that is a reasonably complex model, but does not require supports.

 

I also printed a phone case which came out very nicely as well.  According to Ultimaker's material guide (https://ultimaker.com/en/resources/49799-material-compatibility) TPU with PVA or Breakaway is considered experimental, so you may have to do a lot of fiddling to make it work.

 

You have me curious, and as I have TPU and Breakaway currently loaded in my machine I may try a test tonight and see if it works out.

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I've made some tests with TPU 95, in my experience, with basic CURA settings, you need to stick to prints that are geometric shapes (or combinations), and avoid using it for support at all cost as well as make sure that there is the least retractions possible when you print.

 

With standard settings, you will get some stringing, blobs of the stuff as it retracts and then extrudes again, and even can get a bit of burnt material for small parts as it stays in contact too long with the print head.

 

What I've seen is that, with standard setting, the TPU melts and oozes out of the print head. It can last for a minute or two even after the print as finished, producing tiny hair thin strand of the stuff that goes everywhere.

 

I'd need to run some more tests to see if it can be solved, but the printer is often busy with customer's projects.

 

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While I have not used the TPU 95 per se, I have used NinjaFlex and had no issues with organic or supported prints.

The grey is PLA and the black is NinjaSemiFlex. One of my VERY early prints from a year ago.

DinoCompare.thumb.jpg.7fdce88e8a562fabb64c6d2169e39696.jpg

And all of these are flex (NinjaFlex natural and NinjaSemi-Flex Black and Cheeta Red) prints with many using PVA support. The flat stuff obviously not. But, I never got it as clean as a hard plastic.

VariousFlexMaterials.thumb.jpg.d263a5bc81530431201935650b7c9fff.jpg

That is even a column of cubes that are ball and joint tests I made.

Here is a teeny lettering test with NinjaSemiFlex

FlexTeenyLetteringTest.thumb.jpg.077fc367bfca00d4b9ee76d0b81b8440.jpg

NinjaFlex with Matterhackers PVA

NinjaFlexwithMHPVA.thumb.jpg.f65489b0a90060fb28c73e5607c10502.jpg

NinjaSemiFlex with UM PVA

NinjaFlexwithUMPVA.thumb.jpg.11c3714f880d19b61716e9db7ad61a02.jpg

Painted SemiFlex, even the base for the dinos. Grey is still PLA. Spider is spray painted NinjaSemiFlex.

PaintedFlex.thumb.jpg.d2d3d547b3c499ae699cbdb633138457.jpg

Ball and joint before assembly

BallAndJointFlex.thumb.jpg.bfd292352a12c9dc73004844eb2bd121.jpg

And after assembly with other semiflex prints.

VariousGeometryNinjaFlex.thumb.jpg.8001ab15542e38f35c581377cf5cfa55.jpg

 

 

Edit: I found these.

These are the profiles I developed all those eons ago to print these with:

Ninja-SemiFlex-Draft.curaprofile

NinjaFlex NoSprt Normal.curaprofile

NinjaFlex NoSprt Draft.curaprofile

NinjaFlex Fast.curaprofile

NinjaFlex Draft.curaprofile

Ninja-SemiFlex-Hi.curaprofile

Ninja-SemiFlex-Fast.curaprofile

Edited by kmanstudios
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Very nice. I'll remember your profiles if I ever get some ninjaflex. For now, I wouldn't trust UM TPU to try and print the dinosaur, my earlier tests suggests that it would be a mess. I'd need to fiddle with the settings when I have the time.

 

Just had a thought: it might be a good idea to have a central repository where all the settings developed by the community are stored, so it would be easier to find for everyone.

 

@SandervG What do you think? Could it be possible to create a repository of those curaprofiles somewhere on the site or even on the forums? We would need to get some sort of naming convention to make it quick and easy to find what one is searching, but I think it might be of great help.

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10 minutes ago, Brulti said:

Very nice. I'll remember your profiles if I ever get some ninjaflex. For now, I wouldn't trust UM TPU to try and print the dinosaur, my earlier tests suggests that it would be a mess. I'd need to fiddle with the settings when I have the time.

Why not try to see if what I cobbled together would work as Ninjatek's flex materials are some variant of TPU formulas. I am not sure what Cheetah is though.

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On 2/17/2018 at 5:59 AM, kmanstudios said:

 

While I have not used the TPU 95 per se, I have used NinjaFlex and had no issues with organic or supported prints.

The grey is PLA and the black is NinjaSemiFlex. One of my VERY early prints from a year ago.

DinoCompare.thumb.jpg.7fdce88e8a562fabb64c6d2169e39696.jpg

And all of these are flex (NinjaFlex natural and NinjaSemi-Flex Black and Cheeta Red) prints with many using PVA support. The flat stuff obviously not. But, I never got it as clean as a hard plastic.

VariousFlexMaterials.thumb.jpg.d263a5bc81530431201935650b7c9fff.jpg

That is even a column of cubes that are ball and joint tests I made.

Here is a teeny lettering test with NinjaSemiFlex

FlexTeenyLetteringTest.thumb.jpg.077fc367bfca00d4b9ee76d0b81b8440.jpg

NinjaFlex with Matterhackers PVA

NinjaFlexwithMHPVA.thumb.jpg.f65489b0a90060fb28c73e5607c10502.jpg

NinjaSemiFlex with UM PVA

NinjaFlexwithUMPVA.thumb.jpg.11c3714f880d19b61716e9db7ad61a02.jpg

Painted SemiFlex, even the base for the dinos. Grey is still PLA. Spider is spray painted NinjaSemiFlex.

PaintedFlex.thumb.jpg.d2d3d547b3c499ae699cbdb633138457.jpg

Ball and joint before assembly

BallAndJointFlex.thumb.jpg.bfd292352a12c9dc73004844eb2bd121.jpg

And after assembly with other semiflex prints.

VariousGeometryNinjaFlex.thumb.jpg.8001ab15542e38f35c581377cf5cfa55.jpg

 

 

Edit: I found these.

These are the profiles I developed all those eons ago to print these with:

Ninja-SemiFlex-Draft.curaprofile

NinjaFlex NoSprt Normal.curaprofile

NinjaFlex NoSprt Draft.curaprofile

NinjaFlex Fast.curaprofile

NinjaFlex Draft.curaprofile

Ninja-SemiFlex-Hi.curaprofile

Ninja-SemiFlex-Fast.curaprofile

This is great!  I'll definitely try ninjaflex.

 

Also, the dinos are really cool :)

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The points in this thread about TPU (in each of its forms) being hygroscopic is worth taking seriously -- dry out that filament, and it will treat you better! but darned if I can fully eliminate retraction stringiness myself. I just tweak the model to prepare for this and disable retraction where I can. That won't necessarily help you now that you have something you want to print, but consider whether you can clip strings with a flush cutter afterwards.... 

 

I think you'd do fine with TPU 95A or NinjaTek's Cheetah -- very similar materials and the slightly less squishy durameter can make it easier to predict and print at higher speeds than NinjaFlex (at Shore 85A) and softer materials.

 

 

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I've used the AprintaPro HARD FLEX (98° shore A) on my UM3 last weekend.
Retraction seems to be useless so I disabled it. After the Feeder stopped molten material is running out of the nozzle for quite a few seconds.
Printed a test cylinder and the outside was ok but the infill is not so good. Bad stringing on the travels (only inside).

So I'll try it for some basic parts.
The bonding between the layers is fantastic. If you cut through the printed object it is like cast rubber.

But I think the Ultimaker TPU is quite different to my AprintaPro HARD FELX - some Problems seem to be the same.

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