Feature request - Extrusion multiplier - where is it?

[pieri70 1]

Hello

I'm new to cura 3.x, I am trying to use it instead of some other slicers (S3D)

 

In Simplify 3d and many other slicers there is an option to fine tune and correct the extrusion, i.e. extrusion multiplier.

 

Where is this value located?

I thought it was in material management but it's not there and I can't see it elsewere

 

Thanks

Pietro

Edited February 13, 2018 by pieri70
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[kmanstudios 1,120]

You may be wanting the flow percentage in the materials area you looked in. I am not familiar with S3D that well, but that is my guess.

[yellowshark 153]

probably;  I print via Repetier and they call flow % too.

[pieri70 1]

Thanks I see...

But this is something that is not linked to a particular material.

I mean, different material could behave differently (by over extrusion/under extrusion point of view) to the same extruder settings (fine tuned steps/mm).

On my machine I fine tune the actual filament length extruded with caliper and set fine tuned steps/mm this is a value saved to my firmware (eeprom) settings.

Then Each time I change a filament spool I make a new calibration process, with thin wall - single shell hollow cube to measure if the wanted shell thickness is what is actually printed.

The ratio between what is "wanted" and what is "achieved" is my extrusion multiplier for a given material on a given spool.

So for example I print PLA Tech with 0.96  extrusion multiplier, Pla wood with 0,92, PETG with 1.03 and so on.

 

So I would expect to find extrusion multiplier in "materials" tab under preferences, because each "material" has its own fine tuned extrusion multiplier on a given machine..

Flow percentage in Cura’s settings panel is fixed for a given profile and doesn't change when I change printed material..

 

In S3D I can save extrusion multiplier with material settings, together with hot end/bed temperature and fan speed for first layer and consecutive ones.

 

Is it possible to do the same with Cura?

 

Thanks

Pietro

[kmanstudios 1,120]

41 minutes ago, pieri70 said:

Thanks I see...

But this is something that is not linked to a particular material.

I mean, different material could behave differently (by over extrusion/under extrusion point of view) to the same extruder settings (fine tuned steps/mm).

On my machine I fine tune the actual filament length extruded with caliper and set fine tuned steps/mm this is a value saved to my firmware (eeprom) settings.

Then Each time I change a filament spool I make a new calibration process, with thin wall - single shell hollow cube to measure if the wanted shell thickness is what is actually printed.

The ratio between what is "wanted" and what is "achieved" is my extrusion multiplier for a given material on a given spool.

So for example I print PLA Tech with 0.96  extrusion multiplier, Pla wood with 0,92, PETG with 1.03 and so on.

 

So I would expect to find extrusion multiplier in "materials" tab under preferences, because each "material" has its own fine tuned extrusion multiplier on a given machine..

Flow percentage in Cura’s settings panel is fixed for a given profile and doesn't change when I change printed material..

 

In S3D I can save extrusion multiplier with material settings, together with hot end/bed temperature and fan speed for first layer and consecutive ones.

 

Is it possible to do the same with Cura?

 

Thanks

Pietro

Not that I am aware of.

[pieri70 1]

Thank you kmanstudios

so I must enter flow % for each material manually without saving a new profile each time?

Is it possible to ask for adding this feature to the software - if feasable?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I am not the one to ask about adding this feature. But hopefully the powers that be will see this thread and make note.

 

Also, you can create material profiles and make all the adjustments to them. Just open up settings and go to materials. You will find a 'wizardy' sort of interface to help you through. Not really a wizard, but an easy interface.

 

If you are making a new one, just duplicate an existing profile and then edit to rename and put in your values.

 

Nowadays, I just make dummy project files with proper labels with each set of values pre-edited. This way your project files should always load and not have issues between upgrades. And, it does not clog up your whole interface.

 

Up to youse

[pieri70 1]

18 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

If you are making a new one, just duplicate an existing profile and then edit to rename and put in your values.

Ok now I see, I must duplicate a material and then rename it and it's brand and a new section appears under brands..

Not much intuitive.

 

By the way, extrusion multiplier could be a nice addendum

 

Thanks again

Pietro

[tinkergnome 927]

2 hours ago, pieri70 said:

By the way, extrusion multiplier could be a nice addendum

 

Just an idea:

Perhaps it is possible to change the according setting for material diameter instead.

This has the same effect (change of the extruded volume) and should be stored together with the material.

[pieri70 1]

2 minutes ago, tinkergnome said:

 

Just an idea:

Perhaps it is possible to change the according setting for material diameter instead.

This has the same effect (change of the extruded volume) and should be stored together with the material.

Nice idea, I'll try some hollow cubes to see if this work as should be.

Thanks!

[kmanstudios 1,120]

2 hours ago, pieri70 said:

Ok now I see, I must duplicate a material and then rename it and it's brand and a new section appears under brands..

Not much intuitive.

I would say that depends on the individuals experience. For instance, people trained on Windows think the MAC is a mess and vice versa. Intuitive is over used these days IMHO. As software got more and more powerful and in depth, it kinda lost that value.

 

2 hours ago, pieri70 said:

By the way, extrusion multiplier could be a nice addendum

 

Thanks again

Pietro

I think this is a case of the same thing being called a different name. CG is full of messy nomenclature. Such as one function that has been around since we carved our keyboards out of clay tablets is "Surface of Revolution." But too many programs call it something else like ' lather' or 'revolve.' Surface of Revolution is the proper name and it should be called that.

 

And you are quite welcome :).

[kmanstudios 1,120]

4 minutes ago, tinkergnome said:

 

Just an idea:

Perhaps it is possible to change the according setting for material diameter instead.

This has the same effect (change of the extruded volume) and should be stored together with the material.

OK...scratch my previous ramblings LOL.....

[Stuarts 1]

As flow is set in the material profile, it is specific to the material. You have a different profile for each material.

[pieri70 1]

Flow in cura 3.2 isn't set in material profile, it is relative to print profile, so it changes with let's say layer thickness and other print specific settings.

If you select different material in the uppermost section of  sidebar flow don't change in a given print profile..

[pieri70 1]

Hello,

coming back to this post to clear some doubt.

 

In Simplify3d there is the "flow" parameter that for a 1,75 filament should be lowered if in over-extrusion and risen if in under-extrusion condition.

If I correctly understand  this can be achieved, in cura 3.2.1, changing filament diameter, with lower diameter for under extrusion condition and higher diameter for over extrusion.

Am I right?

 

Then

there is some problem in filament selection in cura

If I create a new filament and I set all parameters (temperature, retraction speed, filament diameter..) and I select a filament from the drop down list in printing profile, then the diameter of the filament under material section is not updated.

I must close and restart Cura (version 3.2.1 on MacOSx HSierra).

Anyone could confirm this?

 

Thanks

Pietro

[yinyarr 1]

Cura 3.2.1. The extrusion factor can be entered in the MATERIAL section under FLOW. There is also an extrusion factor adjustment for the initial layer (Initial Layer Flow). Those working with 3D printing for some time usually look for the "extrusion factor" terminology.  

 

However, the popup description is clear on using FLOW for this function. I find the pop-up's really helpful.

[pieri70 1]

Thank you I see

This parameter is is relative to material or to profile?

I mean, Flow should be linked to material and it shouldn't change changing profile if material is the same.

Am I Wrong?

[gr5 2,172]

flow is a parameter in the profiles.  Cura comes with about 100 profiles and it's possible for there to be different flow settings for each material but in actuality it's always set to 100%.

 

You can create your own custom profiles and have a different flow for each profile.

 

You can name your profiles whatever you want such as "CPE PROFILE".

 

Your method of measuring wall thickness with a caliper is interesting.  The factors that affect flow the pressure on the feeder and material properties - how much the material slips in the feeder for a given pressure.  The pressure is affected by printing speed and the viscocity and resistances through your feeder.  Viscocity is affected by temperature.  So the things that affect what flow correction you may want to use include:

 

print speed

layer height (affects volumetric speed of filament going through nozzle)

line width

print temperature

material

 

It seems like a lot of work to calibrate these but if you always print with the same layer height and line width and you always print with a consistent temperature for a given filament type then it's not too bad.

 

[pieri70 1]

Thank you gr5

I fine calibrate my extrusion multiplier using a speed (60mm/s) that I use for most of my prints with 0,2mm layer thickness.

That is the maximum speed I use and temperature is a constant value, I fine set it after some printed pieces, considering how they result in terms of smoothness, layer adhesion etc..

In this condition material slip in the feeder will be more or less constant and it will depend on material characteristics.

In Simplify3d extrusion multiplier is coupled to material. So for a given profile you get different extrusion multipliers (flow) if you change filament.

In Cura there is no parameter called "flow" or "extrusion multiplier" in material management.

Anyway that isn't a big problem because I can set different diameter for my custom filament.

The result, at the end, is a change in material flow.

 

[Stuarts 1]

In my cura there is a flow parameter in Material for each profile. You just have to turn on the visibility of the setting. 

[pieri70 1]

Hi Stuarts I know there is that parameter.

But if you set flow (Extrusion multiplier) with that parameter you have two options:

1. crate a profile for each material, so for example you will have a profile to print PLA yellow, PLA Orange, PETG xxx with the same speed and layer height only because they have a different "slip behaviour" or because they have a slightly different diameter
2. remember which is the flow for each material and change it every time you change profile

Using a "flow" or "extrusion multiplier" linked to each material in materials library will solve this problem.

But again, changing a little the diameter for a given  material in material library will solve this problem..

 

 

[Stuarts 1]

Unfortunately, just changing colour in the same brand of filament can need almost all parameters changing, making a per material flow almost pointless.  You will still need to adjust it in your profile. I generally print in eSun pla plus in white grey and black. They need very different profiles. 

[ianmcmill 0]

AFAIK all host softwares available have a "Flow rate" setting. I personally never touched that.

An Extrusion Multiplier setting is different from flow rate in terms of calibration.

Cura has it's built in slicer.

Repetier uses external slicers like Slic3r. Slic3r has this extrusion multiplier setting. This is not a host software feature.

Of course you could calibrate your Filament Width setting (ex. 1.75mm ->1.6548mm).

What I use to do in Slic3r is to enter the average filament width (1.74~1.73) and then print hollow boxes to calibrate via the extrusion multiplier.

I think the extrusion multiplier is then used to calculate all the other different line widths that are generated.

I am not sure that an adjusted flow rate does the same. Also I don't like to mess with flow rate settings to calibrate a print. I think this somewhat mediocre. I don't know. It just doesn't feels right.

Edited December 19, 2018 by ianmcmill

[ahoeben 1,948]

Cura has a setting called Material Flow, which does exactly the same as an extrusion multiplier in the slicer.

[ianmcmill 0]

Will check this out. Thanks.