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chuckmcgee

Freeze on nozzle purge

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Hi all,

 

Anyone have any idea why my UM3+ freezes on the initial blob purge in the front left corner?  It happens after every time I fire up the printer to use after it has not been used in a day or so.  I have no choice to but to turn the printer off manually and move the bed down to get the blob cleared...otherwise, it will just keep dispensing filament until it totally ruins the print head.  It has already almost nearly destroyed the silicone that protects the two nozzles.


Otherwise, the printer is working great.

 

Thanks for the advice.

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wow, that seriously sounds horrible!

 

Can you provide logs? and the first 100 lines of gcode or so (or the whole gcode)

Edit: logs can be dumped to a usb stick using the "SYSTEM->Maintenance->Diagnostics->Dump logs to USB" menu option.

Edited by robinmdh

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Hi robinmdh,

I would be happy to.  I will export when I get home.

 

As for the print job, it's any standard gcode that comes from my slicer (Cura 3.2.1 this time).  What's interesting is that, after the reboot - sending the exact same job - it works perfectly.  This has happened with multiple versions of Cura, going back a few versions now.  I am just tired of not trusting it when I start it for the first time after a day off or so.

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Hi all,

 

I decided to send an email to Ultimaker support and have been working with a gentleman named Joseph Williams in North America support.  He is still gathering data, but I did (easily) capture the footage of the issue today, as it happens almost every first use of the printer after it's been off a day or two:

 

 

 

What I noticed from this video is that the issue is happening before the print even starts.  It is the final phase of the start up process where it purges the nozzle, that it fails.  When I powered it back on after powering it hard off, I thought it remarkable that it automatically started the print up again without prompting me to do so.  I did have to acknowledge the failure upon restart, but not to resume the print.  This makes me wonder if my printer is flawed during that start up process.

 

As I provided to Joseph, this problem has been happening for many versions of Cura and at least 3 of the latest versions of the UM3 firmware, including the one from earlier this month.

 

I am still without a solution.

 

Chuck

Edited by chuckmcgee

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Sorry for the late reply.  It has happened on multiple versions of the software and firmware.   I am not getting prompted to restart...mine just restarts the print after I power the printer back on and confirm that I cleared the print bed.  It just happened to me tonight using the newest version of Cura (3.3) and the latest stable firmware (4.3.2.20180308)

 

I am wondering what would happen if I turned off the blob in Cura.  That will be my next test print.  Although...I can't make this happen on command...it has a high probability of the printer has sat for a day or two without printing.  The first print after the delay comes with this freeze up.

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On 3/14/2018 at 8:33 AM, robinmdh said:

wow, that seriously sounds horrible!

 

Can you provide logs? and the first 100 lines of gcode or so (or the whole gcode)

Edit: logs can be dumped to a usb stick using the "SYSTEM->Maintenance->Diagnostics->Dump logs to USB" menu option.

 

Sorry for the delay, but here are those logs...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6l83m7wtl41nbz/AAAfayNSkwq5GyGm45ifOYQOa?dl=0

 

This is still a problem, even with a replacement printer from Matterhackers and changing from wireless to wired.  These are the logs from the new printer which has already experienced two freezes, including one yesterday.

 

Edited by chuckmcgee

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you are turning the printer off there while it's still feeding in more material?

or is it turning off on it's own?

 

the logs show a bunch of errors in the cura connect part but not much else.

 

We have an issue with incorrect prime when you aborted the previous print. so if you don't have the issue after load material and do have it after aborting the previous print it could be that just different then what we've seen (super long prime extrude). you can feel the feeder on the back to see if material is still being moved in.

 

if it's powering off on it's own then that does prompts some further questions:

1 did they switch out the power brick?

2 are you using any of the same hotend cartridges? (maybe 3rd party ones)

3 what is your ambient temperature where you're printing? (maybe if it's really cold there could be problems)

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Fantastic response - thank you robinmdh.

 

I have only ever turned the printer off between uses if I know it will be a couple days or more between prints.  Otherwise, the power off event was due to the fact that the extruder would not stop spewing filament until I did that.  At the point where I have to turn it off hard, it has done an auto bed level and has heated the bed and nozzle.

 

Regarding your questions:

1.  The brick that came with the new unit was causing very strange behavior, including lights flickering (see this youtube link).  It was suggested I keep the original brick, which I am still using.  This is the only component that hasn't been replaced.

 

2.  All of the hot-end cartridges are the new ones that came with the replacement printer (which was brand new from Matterhackers).  Since the replacement, the freeze (or extended purge) has happened on both hot ends...I had to turn it off hard in each case).  Also, in each case, it froze when that was the start of a print after many hours of being powered off.  I did one print where I was using the right extruder exclusively.  When it started on that one, it froze on the purge.
 

3.  Ambient temperature is about 65-70 degrees F.  Not too cold at all.  Located in a small room in my basement where I keep the door closed. 

 

Hope this helps.  

 

Edited by chuckmcgee

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7 hours ago, chuckmcgee said:

I have only ever turned the printer off between uses if I know it will be a couple days or more between prints.  Otherwise, the power off event was due to the fact that the extruder would not stop spewing filament until I did that.  At the point where I have to turn it off hard, it has done an auto bed level and has heated the bed and nozzle. 

I Meant in the first video you posted, not in general, all the lights go off, is that you doing it or not?

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21 minutes ago, robinmdh said:

I Meant in the first video you posted, not in general, all the lights go off, is that you doing it or not?

 

That is definitely not me.  That was the result of the replacement power supply running on the replacement printer.  I still have the replacement printer, but because of that flickering/apparent power issue, it was suggested I try (and keep using) the original power supply.  

 

So far, the extended purge/freezing has now happened on both the old and new device, and the power supply is the only component in common to both units.

 

Hope this helps.

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1 minute ago, robinmdh said:

and when you say freeze you mean lights off?

 

no...sorry...two distinct issues.  

 

The freeze issue is the one that brings me here and has existed on both of the UM2E's that I have had in my possession since buying the printer in November.  The flickering was a new problem that showed up on the replacement (2nd of the two printers) that seemed to be related to the power supply.

 

I only share the flickering problem in response to your question about whether or not I replaced the power supply with the second unit  I did not since the replacement power supply appeared to be faulty - causing the flickering.  I just happened to record a video of the flickering as well.

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OK, well the beeping is just the feeder motor retracting during the print, not sounds to be alarmed about. The flickering is odd and points to a power issue, indeed.

 

If it is indeed a power problem it might be related to your local wiring or power grid (since you have problems with multiple power bricks and printers), I would suggest powering the printer via a UPS. Possibly try the power brick that leaves your printer flickering and beeping (this seems preferable to a freezing/rebooting printer).

 

Other than that I could make a file that suppresses your printers power consumption a bit more, if you're willing to try that it would involve logging into the machine via SSH is that something you've done before? if so on which OS (windows/mac/Linux) are you using?

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Thank you for the explanation on the beeping.  I did get some help to determine that was normal.  A couple points of clarification regarding the rest:

 

First, I do not know if the freezing/extended purge would have happened on the new power supply.  That flickering started right away so it was suggested to use the original power supply. 

 

Second, I am currently powered by UPS.   I have been for a couple months now.  I have seen the extended purge happen on the original printer when not connected to UPS as well. 

 

Lastly, regarding the file to reduce power, my preference is to not make me or my printer a snowflake when compared to others.  I just want my printer to work like everyone else’s.  Just concerned about what it means for me later when new versions of code come out and I am using something custom. 

 

Through MatterHackers, I have been pointed to Erin Oliver at Ultimaker North America Support. She has been back and forth with me.  The question I have for her (and you) is...does it make sense to try a replacement power supply?  It’s the only component in common to both printers that have failed the same way. 

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52 minutes ago, chuckmcgee said:

does it make sense to try a replacement power supply?

It could indeed be the problem, however the likelihood of encountering 2 faulty power bricks is fairly low and we have not found out that is actually the problem, see below:

 

55 minutes ago, chuckmcgee said:

my preference is to not make me or my printer a snowflake when compared to others.

My suggestion was just to verify that is indeed the problem, at worst this will lower the maximum reachable bed temperature, not much else. It could be your power system, did you run it on the UPS with mains power unplugged?

 

Me, not being in any kind of support position, I would defer to the judgment of people like Erin Oliver (that is @fbrc8-erin, right?) on the replacing of the power brick.

Being a software engineer I'm more interested in finding out what is actually the problem as more people could be having this issue, that means one more experiment at least :)

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Thanks Robinmdh.  To clarify about there power brick, I only have the one that I am using now.  This is the original power brick from the first Ultimaker.  We decided to keep this one when the new one had the flickering.  I was only suggesting that maybe this particular power brick is responsible for the extended purge on both of the Ultimaker printers I have had.  

 

And yes...that is the same Erin.  She’s great.  

Edited by chuckmcgee

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24 minutes ago, robinmdh said:

Being a software engineer I'm more interested in finding out what is actually the problem as more people could be having this issue, that means one more experiment at least :)

 

You mentioned others that might be having this issue - as you may have seen @kmanstudios commented earlier in this thread that he is having the issue.  Coincidentally, he and another are exchanging replies in another thread with @SandervG.  This is the thread:

 

https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/22032-big-blob-and-huge-retraction-um3-after-abort/

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7 minutes ago, chuckmcgee said:

@kmanstudios commented earlier in this thread that he is having the issue. 

Your printer turns off during prime and stops. That thread is about a long retract after abort, we are aware of that and will try to fix it but it's a different Issue.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, robinmdh said:

Your printer turns off during prime and stops. That thread is about a long retract after abort, we are aware of that and will try to fix it but it's a different Issue.

 

 

 

Yeah. I was just pointing out that there was another reply within the thread that had the same problem. I hope I’m not belaboring the point, but my issue is not that the printer turns off during that purge, it’s that it keeps dispensing filament at the point of the purge until I have no choice but to turn it off manually. For all intents and purposes, the printer appears to freeze as the controls are completely unresponsive.  

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... Then yes it's a know software problem, not a power issue at all...  The problem is that during abort some moves are discarded but it's not know exactly which moves so the filament position is then not known and an incorrect length prime/deprime happens.

 

 

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FYI It happens on the next print after aborting a print, past the heating up stage, and depending on where /what gcode was being processed at the time...

Edited by robinmdh
  • Thanks 1

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16 minutes ago, robinmdh said:

FYI It happens on the next print after aborting a print, past the heating up stage, and depending on where /what gcode was being processed at the time...

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I have seen it occur most often right after the printer is powered on after an extensive period of time of not being used and after heating the bed and hot end for the first print.  After that, it works for multiple print jobs.

 

Questions:

  1. As a known issue, is it safe to assume this will be fixed by a firmware update?  I have experienced this issue across at least two of the latest firmware updates.  Wondering how long this has been known and whether the fact that this still exists is a sign of a bigger issue
     
  2. Why is this not an issue for more people (or maybe it is)?  I haven't found a lot of threads pointing back to this and thank goodness, @kmanstudios made me at least feel like I wasn't the only one (even though his hasn't occurred in a long time)
     
  3. Is there anything I can do to improve the likelihood that this won't happen?  Would it help to turn off the prime blob and assume the filament will regulate during a skirt or brim process?

Thanks for the help here!

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