PVA Strings between a print job and a prime tower

[coduy 0]

Hi there, a complete newbie here. I am getting some very thin PVA strings between the print and the prime tower, as can be seen the attached picture. 

 

 

 

The material is Ultimaker PVA that comes with the box. I have been doing some investigation and found out that this can be caused by temperature that is set too high or/and print speed. Currently PVA print temperature is  set to 225 C. Print speed is 35 mm/s. First I am planning to lower the temperature (to 215 C), but would like to ask the community first just in case I'm tottally wrong. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brulti 177]

Why are you not using the standard setting for PVA which is 215°C?

[tinkergnome 927]

mmmh, and why is the prime tower so far away?
I guess it would be better to place the tower closer to the printed object, this would avoid such long travel paths.

[Smithy 1,144]

Or print without a prime tower, should also work as I have learned on another thread.

[coduy 0]

17 hours ago, Brulti said:

Why are you not using the standard setting for PVA which is 215°C?

hi there, I used recommended temperature for PVA. At least in Cura that I have: 225C : PVA Fast Profile,  220C: PVA Normal Profile, 215C PVA Fine Profile. 

 

So I have been using Fast profile since the beginning. Next time I will lower the temperature to see if this helps. Thanks. 

[coduy 0]

15 hours ago, tinkergnome said:

mmmh, and why is the prime tower so far away?
I guess it would be better to place the tower closer to the printed object, this would avoid such long travel paths.

 

Well, I'm a newbie and haven't toyed with object placement yet, thanks, I will give it a go now. 

[coduy 0]

13 hours ago, Smithy said:

Or print without a prime tower, should also work as I have learned on another thread.

 

I read that using prime tower is advisable when using two print cores and when you want to avoid printing quality issues. So I always use  a prime tower when a print job goes with PVA and PLA. Do you think I go over a top with this? What's your opinion on using prime tower? 

[Smithy 1,144]

2 hours ago, coduy said:

I read that using prime tower is advisable when using two print cores and when you want to avoid printing quality issues. So I always use  a prime tower when a print job goes with PVA and PLA. Do you think I go over a top with this? What's your opinion on using prime tower? 

 

I haven't tried it myself, but a few days ago there was another thread and @kmanstudios mentioned there that he doesn't use a prime tower anymore for all his PVA prints and get a perfect result.

 

The problem with the prime tower is that it the object is higher, the chance that the tower will fall off and probably ruins the print is very high. And if the result is also good without a prime tower, you don't waste your material. So I would give it a try.

[coduy 0]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

 

I haven't tried it myself, but a few days ago there was another thread and @kmanstudios mentioned there that he doesn't use a prime tower anymore for all his PVA prints and get a perfect result.

 

The problem with the prime tower is that it the object is higher, the chance that the tower will fall off and probably ruins the print is very high. And if the result is also good without a prime tower, you don't waste your material. So I would give it a try.

 

Thanks for your comments. I will try to do some prints without a prime tower. As for a prime tower that can ruin a print job: yes, I read the same on the other posts but also read that this had been improved a lot in Cura 3.5.1 and there're some nice settings for a primer tower to choose from that make it more stable. 

[Brulti 177]

4 hours ago, coduy said:

hi there, I used recommended temperature for PVA. At least in Cura that I have: 225C : PVA Fast Profile,  220C: PVA Normal Profile, 215C PVA Fine Profile. 

 

So I have been using Fast profile since the beginning. Next time I will lower the temperature to see if this helps. Thanks. 

 

You're very right, I didn't check what profile I was looking at when checking the temperature for PVA.

 

Prime towers can be useful but, at least in the case of printing PVA and PLA together, they're not really needed as the settings in CURA are very good and you get very little troubles when using those two materials together. I've recently printed a nice sculpture for a customer, a fantasy character that required quite a lot of support with 0.06 layer to keep the looks and make the curves as best looking as possible, and I didn't use a prime tower.

 

Printing lasted about two days, the print came out beautifully and with very little surface defects, nothing that couldn't be fixed by a bit of cleaning.

[coduy 0]

2 minutes ago, Brulti said:

 

You're very right, I didn't check what profile I was looking at when checking the temperature for PVA.

 

Prime towers can be useful but, at least in the case of printing PVA and PLA together, they're not really needed as the settings in CURA are very good and you get very little troubles when using those two materials together. I've recently printed a nice sculpture for a customer, a fantasy character that required quite a lot of support with 0.06 layer to keep the looks and make the curves as best looking as possible, and I didn't use a prime tower.

 

Printing lasted about two days, the print came out beautifully and with very little surface defects, nothing that couldn't be fixed by a bit of cleaning.

 

Nice, now I will defo go with no prime tower for the next print! Thanks! 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

2 hours ago, Brulti said:

Printing lasted about two days, the print came out beautifully and with very little surface defects, nothing that couldn't be fixed by a bit of cleaning.

Just for time and material differences, would you mind doing a slice with the tower and without to demonstrate that difference? That was a big statue and I can imagine how that would accrue over the total print.

 

2 hours ago, coduy said:

Nice, now I will defo go with no prime tower for the next print! Thanks! 

 little like jumping off something high, eh? I know it was for me and then I gave it a whirl and it was a very nice experience.

[Brulti 177]

16 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

Just for time and material differences, would you mind doing a slice with the tower and without to demonstrate that difference? That was a big statue and I can imagine how that would accrue over the total print.

 

The statue is about 20cm tall. I don't have the stl file at the moment to give precise numbers, but, if memory serves, the print I did was 1 day and 20 hours without the tower, and close to 3 days with one. The statue is tall but thin, so I think the tower added quite a lot of material to it. I'll check if I can find the file on my other computer to compare and post precise numbers.

[Shadowman 53]

I just completed 3 prints using Ultimaker Breakaway filament for the first time.

 

Print 1, the Prime Tower failed a couple day’s into the print and drug Breakaway filament into the print; it was not good.

 

Print 2, no Prime Tower and the print was without issues.

 

Print 3, no Prime Tower and the print was without issue. 

 

Now I will try Printing PVA and PLA without a Prime Tower and see how it goes.

 

Without the Prime Tower time print time is measurably less and certainly less material is used.

 

For what it’s worth I am using Ultimaker Cura 3.4.1 so I have not tried the new style Prime Tower.

 

Takes care.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

At the risk of asking the obvious, then why try the new prime tower if prints are doing well without it. Or is this just a test to see if it works?

[Shadowman 53]

54 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

At the risk of asking the obvious, then why try the new prime tower if prints are doing well without it. Or is this just a test to see if it works?

Good question 

 

Based on my results remain thus far I will forgo using Prime Tower. 

 

I was simpky sharing which version of Ultimaker Cura that I am using during which I have had the Prime Tower fail numerous times and also making clear that I have no experience with the new version so others reading would have a baseline to compare to.

 

I followed your suggestion and am “very” happy with the results.

 

As I stated previously; my reason for using Prime Tower was as the direct result of Ultimaker’s team telling me that it would offer the best results; I can now share without reservation that this is not the case.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Honestly, I think the prime tower is a great idea as it offers comfort to newbies. I know it did me until I got information about it and this was during the changes that they put in regarding the preheating and cool down temps.

 

But it is nice to get weened off it as it does add a lot of material usage and time.

 

Basically, a great starting point when new to machines, but eventually there is a time to expand.

 

Edit: and though they do try to offer things that are good for other printers than the UM line, it does carry well with the UM printers.

Edited November 7, 2018 by kmanstudios

[Shadowman 53]

35 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

Honestly, I think the prime tower is a great idea as it offers comfort to newbies. I know it did me until I got information about it and this was during the changes that they put in regarding the preheating and cool down temps.

 

But it is nice to get weened off it as it does add a lot of material usage and time.

 

Basically, a great starting point when new to machines, but eventually there is a time to expand.

 

Edit: and though they do try to offer things that are good for other printers than the UM line, it does carry well with the UM printers.

For me the Print Tower was a new feature as was having dual Print Cores so when told to use it I just assumed it was a prerequisite required to get the best out of the two Print Cores.

 

Much frustration was felt when it failed.

 

I have learned .... and been weened.

 

Thank you 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Shadowman
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