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Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding


LePaul
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Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

After several months of lobbying, I was able to finally purchase Ultimaker S5 printers for the workplace.

 

Now, it's one problem after another.  This wasn't the trouble free printing experience I had envisioned.

 

We received these printers a few weeks ago and just started doing basic test prints, to tech the students.

 

Printer One keeps having an issue grinding into the PVA material.  Or not feeding at all. 

We frequently have to manually "move" material for the prints to print with material.  The feeder tension is set to the middle position and I'm still seeing these grinding issues.

 

Printer Two is even worse.  Feeding filament into extruder two is nearly impossible.  Filament doesn't smoothly pass through.  It takes a few pushes to get it into the Bowden, which just leads to a ground up filament segment if we attempt to move the material or print.  I've had the extruder cover off, referred to the manual and I have 6+ years of experience with Ultimaker UMO/2/2+ printers.  I don't know what's messing up that extruder but it's clean, no debris...and just not right.

 

I know PVA is tricky and brittle, but no matter how much we change the tensioner, it's grinding and again, that feed from extruder to bowden seems compromised.

 

I've reached out to Support and hopeful they can offer some advice I haven't thought of.

 

Have others had issues with their feeders?   I thought I would inquire with the community while awaiting a response.

 

I spend a lot of effort promoting the ease of use of Ultimaker at work.  Now...I'm pretty red faced.

 

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Hi @LePaul, thank you for your message and for lobbying for the Ultimaker S5! 

    Printer one only has troubles with PVA, or also other materials? Do you preserve the PVA in anyway, either prior or during printing? 

     

    Printer two; did you try different types of filament? (Old?) and new? Could you perhaps share a picture of your feeder, potentially with the cover off if you mention you had it off before? I'm not sure what I would be looking for, but perhaps something catches our eye. Thanks! 

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    One has only tried PVA that came with the printer.   It's working now....but we had to play the "move material" game to get material to flow.   Not the normal process.

     

    Again, only new filament...what came with it and the 40 rolls of UM filament from PrintedSolid.

     

    Picture coming

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    I think one thing I found is the collet piece holding the bowden into the extruder has some play.  So there may be some misalignment there causing friction.  I just put it together again but left a bit of filament in the extruder as a guide to getting the collet/bowden to align/fit right.  I cleaned out some more debris before putting it all back.

     

    More testing

     

    image.thumb.png.7e938514f1f628ab3331804acf7dc272.png

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Can you push the filament so far into the Bowden tube that you see about 5cm of it? I always load it that way, then you don't have to wait funtil it comes out of the print core.

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding
    10 minutes ago, Dim3nsioneer said:

    Can you push the filament so far into the Bowden tube that you see about 5cm of it? I always load it that way, then you don't have to wait funtil it comes out of the print core.


    Same here.   But that’s the issue.  Pushing the filament into the extruder isn’t smooth.  There’s something about how it’s connecting to the bowden tube that seems problematic. It can take several shoves to finally get it in there.  But that leads to the failure and grinding 

     

    Only using new PVA that came with it

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    If not done already, check if the Bowden tube is mounted the correct way round.

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    I personally always cut a point on the end of my filament when i load it, it makes it so much more easy to load than a flat end. Grinding with PVA can come from it being wet, PVA can get wet very fast going by the type of place its in.

     

    So i would dry it out 65C for 4-8 hour should do it and then put it in a polybox or some other airtight system, even when in use.

     

    IMG_9814.thumb.JPG.a0ce52aaa42ce623437a0d56dbdcd43f.JPG

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    I've been working with Erin over to support on this.

     

    To update, I've done some cold pulls on the BB hot end and the first one had a lot of PVA stuck to it.  The second came out clean.

     

    I reloading the PVA and it was trickling out of the hot end.

     

    This morning I had a student start a print with support and nothing is coming out the PVA side.

     

    Still working through some ideas.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    as you said... PVA is tricky... (it may vary depending on the brand though...)

     

    I always remove the PVA from the printer (if i don't need it immediately again), and feed some cheap PLA through the BB core (just with the normal "load material" function). This removes any PVA residues from the print core and is much more easy and gentle than those hot/cold pulls (IMHO). I never had a clogged BB core since i use this method (no matter how long it rests unused in a drawer).

     

    I guess any leftover PVA will slightly expand in the nozzle when it absorbs moisture and then simply clogs, if it is reheated again...(but that's just my simplified theory)?

     

    Oh - and double check if the feeder is correct reassembled - especially take sure that this screwhead is back inside the housing.

     

    grafik.png.e279742bdca0ac5962a84a7f35c3122a.png

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Screwhead is inside, thanks for that reminder.  It always makes that un-nerving SNAP when you open the feeder.

     

    I think I have narrowed it down a bit more.  When feeding filament in, it doesn't seem to always hit the hole in the level to glide into the bowden.  It definitely takes some finesse to get through there but it seems like more than usual.

     

    With the cover off, we can see how it should work.  

     

    With the cover on (tension screw under the cover), we tension it to the middle position, per the service manual.

     

    This last time, we loaded PVA and heard a SNAP sound, and it broke the PVA in the tube.  There was a few inch gap between the two segments, so we used the Move process to push them together.

     

    Side note, is there a way for the PVA extruder to do the prime blob as the primary one does at start of print (we checked that on in Cura)  I know we can do a prime tower but that's overkill.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Interesting...we're seeing that the PVA is trying to prime off the side of the bed?  How could that be fixed?

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding
    21 hours ago, LePaul said:

    Side note, is there a way for the PVA extruder to do the prime blob as the primary one does at start of print (we checked that on in Cura)  I know we can do a prime tower but that's overkill.

     

     

    Yes, it can do a prime blob just be sure you click on that print core at the top of the settings to swap the settings over to that print core.

     

    509637293_Screenshot2020-02-22at12_45_55.thumb.png.23b6fdd4f5a375daac714b40b5cea079.png

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Perfect, thanks!

     

    It looks like a bad roll of PVA is the cause of my issues.  But to be sure I have taken Erin's advice to install an AA core, load some PLA and do a print from extruder two.  That's next!

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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Hi @LePaul,

    Your post is very interesting.

    We just bought the S5 pro bundle and encountered the exact same problem with PVA in extruder 2 BB 0.4, temp. 215'C, (i did not tried extruder 1 because it is working perfectly with tough pla and I prefer to keep at least this head working...)

    We are using Ultimaker natural PVA kept in the provision store.

     

    Have you found a solution for this issue?

    In my case, I thought I found a solution by increasing the extruding speed from 35mm/s to 70mm/s and it worked, the first times.

    But after a few prints it got back to a clogged head (i.e. 0mm/s).

    Obviously, the filament's feeder continued to push the filament in such a way that the last bowder between the feeder and the head got disconnected reducing the push inside the head even further.

     

    After cleaning the head with cleaning filament, we indeed observed a kind of caramelized clogged material.

     

    Thanks for your feedback (and solution if you have one 🙂 ),

    Yoshi

     

    Edited by sankayop
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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Hi @sankayop, thank you for your message and welcome to the community! Please do be aware that you are responding to a post that is over 1,5 years old, and answers given or information found may be outdated by now. 

     

    Before you used your PVA, did you dry it to ensure it is dry enough to use? It is important to realise that the material station is intended to keep your filament dry, not to make it dry. You can find instructions on how to dry it here.

     

    We have introduced a new feeder wheel after Paul's original issue which significantly increase the reliability of printing with PVA. 

     

    I would recommend to stick to the original profile, and make sure your PVA is dry before you load it in the material station.

    You might want to check if the coupler holding your bowden tube did not get damaged why the bowden tube got loose. You can do so by removing the horse shoe, push down the coupler and pull out the bowden tube. The coupler should now sit loose in the feeder and you should be able to get it out. In the inside you should see 4 small metal blades that grab into the bowden tube. If they seem bent or missing you might want to get a new coupler from your reseller (they don't cost much). If they are still good or when you have new ones make sure the bowden tube is put back properly. Instructions can be found here

     

    So I would recommend to dry your PVA, use the default profile, make sure the print cores are clean and let us know how it goes then. Good luck! 

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding

    Thanks @SandervG,

    In the meanwhile, I have put a new BB 0.8 head to reduce the clogging effect.

    The result is on-going but looks ok. Of course, at the cost of the resolution (that is now limited to 0.2mm).

    I'll let know if this helped or not.

     

    Concerning the BB 0.4, I don't think our natural PLA is wet because I don't see any groves from the feeder at its outlet, neither any issue with the feeder (except the bowder loosening).

    Nevertheless, I just read about the cardbox procedure (with 50'C on the building plate) for 2-4hrs ; or the 8-10hrs in an industrial oven. (I don't see why such a difference). We have both so, I'll give it a try.

     

    Concerning the bowder coupler, I have never seen these 4 small metal blades, so I suppose I should look after them (re-order).

     

    Default profile is what we are using currently.

     

    Cleaned core: I have cleaned it with PLA filament 4 times, and Cleaning filament 4 times.

     

    So,

    Thanks for all your guidances, I do have some threads I can try before reverting to you.

     

    Step by step, I will first continue with the BB 0.8, default profile, and do my part.

    Then, go back to BB 0.4, clean the head once more, dry the PVA and give it a try.

    If it does not work, redo the process after having ordered the metal blades.

    Thanks,

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    Posted · Ultimaker S5 feeder problems and grinding
    1 hour ago, sankayop said:

    Thanks @SandervG,

    In the meanwhile, I have put a new BB 0.8 head to reduce the clogging effect.

    The result is on-going but looks ok. Of course, at the cost of the resolution (that is now limited to 0.2mm).

    I'll let know if this helped or not.

     

    Concerning the BB 0.4, I don't think our natural PLA is wet because I don't see any groves from the feeder at its outlet, neither any issue with the feeder (except the bowder loosening).

    Nevertheless, I just read about the cardbox procedure (with 50'C on the building plate) for 2-4hrs ; or the 8-10hrs in an industrial oven. (I don't see why such a difference). We have both so, I'll give it a try.

     

    Concerning the bowder coupler, I have never seen these 4 small metal blades, so I suppose I should look after them (re-order).

     

    Default profile is what we are using currently.

     

    Cleaned core: I have cleaned it with PLA filament 4 times, and Cleaning filament 4 times.

     

    So,

    Thanks for all your guidances, I do have some threads I can try before reverting to you.

     

    Step by step, I will first continue with the BB 0.8, default profile, and do my part.

    Then, go back to BB 0.4, clean the head once more, dry the PVA and give it a try.

    If it does not work, redo the process after having ordered the metal blades.

    Thanks,

     

    Hi there

     

    I have purchased 6 Ultimaker S5's for my workplace.  We sort of have a love/hate relationship with PVA.  We have found that if we put it in our filament dryer for a few hours, it will work pretty well.  Every now and then we observe it breaking within the Bowden tube.  I highly recommend the PrintDry Pro series of filament dryers!  We also vacuum seal the material in their plastic containers.  They are not cheap but for the research printing we do, we feel it is worth it.

     

    We are trying out the Ultimaker Breakaway material.  We're still working on the ideal settings for it since some of the team find it difficult to remove.

     

    I hope this helps!
     

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