Jump to content

Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended


DDoove

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited) · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

Hello all,

 

Since quite some time we've been printing only ABS on our Ultimaker 3 extended, because we've been experiencing troubles when printing PLA. Our S5 printer is quite busy lately, so we'd like to resume printing PLA on the U3.

The problem is under extrusion. What we see is that the feeder is grinding into the material.

 

Information:

- The tensioner is indicating the right tension

- Printers have been serviced, so cores are cleaned

- Both cores show the same problem

- Knurled wheels have been exchanged

- Bowden tubes have been exchanged

- Cores have been exchanged

- Filament spools are new

- ABS does not show any problem

 

Does anyone have any tips we could still try to solve this problem?

2023-08-14 11.58.05.jpg

2023-08-14 11.57.40.jpg

UM3E_Houder aandrukker C400 V2.3mf

Edited by DDoove
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    • DDoove changed the title to Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended
    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Check the front fan.  Heat up either print core and by the time the core gets to 60C the front fan (not the side fans) should be spinning.  Push the head around to see if it shuts down when the cable is twisted one way or another.  Jiggle the main cable a little to see if that affects the front fan.  Open and close the front door to see if that affects the front fan.

     

    You say tensions is correct.  Sometimes people reassemble the feeder wrong but if the indicator is centered then it's assembled correctly.  Is it centered?

     

    Another issue is speed.  You may simply be printing too cold or too fast.

     

    Another issue is retractions.  For example when I printed the eiffel tower I had over a kilometer (yes a kilometer!) of retractions and that ended up grinding the filament because there were retractions non-stop and the same bit of filament went through the feeder too many times.

     

    Please reply to all my points and if none of these help I have a much longer list.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted (edited) · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended
    1 hour ago, gr5 said:

    Is there any chance you are accidentally printing ABS with PLA temperatures?

     

    We use the default temperature setting used by Cura, which automatically changes according to the material, so this should not be the case.

     

    And I think you mean printing PLA with ABS temperatures, cause ABS goes fine, but PLA keeps failing.

     

    Will get back to your previous comment on wednesday. Thank you for the support! 🙂
    image.thumb.png.8cdea1841c7ee902152340fc0a9ef524.png

    Edited by DDoove
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    PLA prints very fast at ABS temperatures (which are hotter temperatures).  Most of these plastics get thinner (less viscous) the hotter you go.  I'm worried you are printing too cool or too fast but as long as you aren't messing with speeds and temps, the existing profiles should be fine.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended
    On 8/14/2023 at 3:47 PM, gr5 said:

    Check the front fan.  Heat up either print core and by the time the core gets to 60C the front fan (not the side fans) should be spinning.  Push the head around to see if it shuts down when the cable is twisted one way or another.  Jiggle the main cable a little to see if that affects the front fan.  Open and close the front door to see if that affects the front fan.

     

    You say tensions is correct.  Sometimes people reassemble the feeder wrong but if the indicator is centered then it's assembled correctly.  Is it centered?

     

    Another issue is speed.  You may simply be printing too cold or too fast.

     

    Another issue is retractions.  For example when I printed the eiffel tower I had over a kilometer (yes a kilometer!) of retractions and that ended up grinding the filament because there were retractions non-stop and the same bit of filament went through the feeder too many times.

     

    Please reply to all my points and if none of these help I have a much longer list.

    I've checked the front fan, it worked fine in all conditions you mentioned.

    Tensioner is indeed centered.

     

    We did modify the print speed, since we like the print profiles which are available for the S5, we changed the profiles for the S3 to be more like the ones used for the S5. I've reset the speed from 40mm/sec to 80mm/sec, though the temperature setting is the same between U3 and S5 with different speeds.

     

    I've also disabled the retraction.

     

    The same print job did finish without error. Will print a bigger print with enabled retraction to see if the speed or the retraction was the problem.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Retractions are only a problem if you have tens of thousands of retractions.  Do you have tens of thousands of retractions?

     

    Do you have many hundreds of retractions in just a minute or two?

     

    Doubling the speed is a huge red flag.  There are I think 7 speeds?  Did you double all 7 of them?  Search for "speed" in the settings search box and it will show you all of them at once.

     

    If you want to print faster, don't increase the speed, instead increase the layer height or use a bigger nozzle like a 0.8mm nozzle.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Actually increasing the layer height without going for a larger nozzle (.6 or .8) might be bad also.  It's the feeder you had trouble with so it's probably the volume of filament that was too much for the feeder.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended
    On 8/18/2023 at 2:33 AM, gr5 said:

    Retractions are only a problem if you have tens of thousands of retractions.  Do you have tens of thousands of retractions?

     

    Do you have many hundreds of retractions in just a minute or two?

     

    Doubling the speed is a huge red flag.  There are I think 7 speeds?  Did you double all 7 of them?  Search for "speed" in the settings search box and it will show you all of them at once.

     

    If you want to print faster, don't increase the speed, instead increase the layer height or use a bigger nozzle like a 0.8mm nozzle.

     

    No, we halved the printing speed. The default general print speed setting for the U3 is 80 mm/sec for PLA. The other print speed settings are lower, but change according to the general setting. 

    The default setting for the general print speed S5 is 30 mm/sec for PLA when using the engineering profile. All print speed settings are at 30 mm/sec within this profile.

     

    We generally print at 45 - 60 mm/sec. meaning we raise the speed for the S5 normal engineering - .15 mm profile and lower the speed for the U3 Normal - .15 mm profile.

     

    For both printers the print temperature for PLA is 200 °C, if print speed proves to be the cause of error, then I still don't understand why.

     

    Regarding the retraction; with small objects or objects that consist of many small geometry it is likely that there are a lot of retractions. I'm not sure how many, but I'm sure that the same piece of filament will pass the knurled wheel several times, like maybe even up to 10-20 times. In these cases I'll uncheck the Enable retraction setting.

    At the moment a relatively large object is being printed with few retractions, so we'll see if this one succeeds at the same printing speed.

     

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    when I say "speed" sometimes I meed volume per second.  So increasing only the layer height is doubling the "speed" if that's what I mean by "speed".  Other times I really do mean X and Y speed.

     

    There are settings to control the number of retractions on the same spot of filament.  I've had to use these when, for example, I printed the Eiffel tower with it's hundreds of separated girders.  It's a problem for Voronoi prints (google image search if you don't know what that means), and any print where there are hundreds of "islands" on a given layer.  Like when printing hundreds of vertical fencing bars in an architectural model.

     

    The settings are:

    maximum retraction count

    minimum extrusion distance window

     

    I like to set the window to the same length as the retraction distance (I think it's 8mm on an S5).  And then the count is set to how many times the same bit of filament can go back and forth through the feeder.  10 is a very safe number if the window is 8mm.  The S5 can usually do 20 on a filament that doesn't grind too easily and if you aren't printing "fast" (there's more pressure in the print head so there is more grinding when printing faster).  In my experience you will almost certainly fail (by grinding the filament to dust) if you set the count to 40 (and you have that many retractions in 8mm).  Meaning the same spot of filament went back and forth through the feeder wheel 40 times.

     

    You can even set it to just 5 which should be very safe.  This way Cura does as many retractions as possible unless you hit this limit so this will reduce the stringing and blobs on your print.

     

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted (edited) · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Printing of some PLA and TPLA prints went quite good.

    Started with standard profile Normal - 15mm, disabled retraction and speed 80 mm/sec.

    Then tried Normal - 15mm, PLA and TPLAdisabled retraction and general speed 60 mm/sec. Still good.

    Then tried Normal - 15mm, PLA, enabled retraction and general speed 60 mm/sec. Still no trouble.

    Then tried Normal - 15mm, PLA, enabled retraction, retraction window 6,5 mm, maximum number of retractions 15 and general speed 60 mm/sec. No trouble.

     

    Did the monthly maintenance, lubricating and greasing plus cleaning print cores with cleaning filament.

     

    Then tried Normal - 15mm, TPLAenabled retraction, retraction window 6,5 mm, maximum number of retractions 15 and general speed 50 mm/sec. Print failed.

    Poor printing quality already started at lower layers where not many retractions should have taken place.

    image.thumb.png.06aae583d2cd0e03ea0231390cea3615.png

    Now printing the same print with retraction disabled and general speed on 60 mm/sec. Print failed with the same result.

    Just saw that the default speed for TPLA is 45 mm / sec, but 50 mm/sec shouldn't have been a problem then.

     

    @gr5, any thoughts?

     

    Edited by DDoove
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    The above part should have very few retractions.  I was expecting something more like this (photo below) which only prints tiny bits of plastic in between each retraction.  I could be wrong as I can't see portions of your part but I don't think retractions are related for this part.

     

    What is the 15mm thing you refer to?  Do you mean ".15mm" layer height?

     

    What is the layer height for these prints?

    container_forging-iron-forged-balcony-ra

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    When you set "the speed" to 80mm/sec or 50mm/sec that changes MANY speeds.

     

    Screenshotfrom2023-08-2415-47-50.thumb.png.f9c5645818e755285b2d8fdb730061c8.png

     

    When you change only the "print speed", most (all?) of the speeds change.  I think the speed you were referring to was just the infill speed but most of your layers don't have much infill I think.

     

    For your part - based on the "look" of it I'm guessing you would be happer with something more accurate but not necessarily pretty.  The settings you are using will reduce "ringing" but you will get a more accurate part and a faster print (typically - not always) if you use the engineering settings.

     

    Screenshotfrom2023-08-2415-48-24.thumb.png.19cdec49a34c45dd2835d70c8482a3db.png

     

    I sliced a part similar to yours and it was only 20% slower with the engineering settings.

    Screenshot from 2023-08-24 15-48-24.png

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    So analyzing your speeds - assuming you have an AA 0.4mm nozzle:

    50mm/sec X .15mm layer height X 0.4mm nozzle gives you 3 cubic mm/sec.  That's a SLOW volume for an S5.  You should be able to print 5 no problem.  On rare occasions I've pushed things and printed at 18 mm^3/sec with very little underextrusion although I think that was a .6 nozzle maybe.  Which can print double the flow.  So something indeed seems to be a problem.

     

    First of all there is a bug in 5.4 where it doesn't print the surface sometimes for certain models.  90% of models are fine but if you have a certain geometry then it will happen consistenly with you.  If you zoom in on the part in PREVIEW mode you can see that it doesn't print the outer wall AT ALL occasonally and it shows up as very thin yellow lines showing through the red exterior.  Make sure you have the PREVIEW color scheme set to "line type".  Walls should be red everywhere but if you see yellow inner layers then you hit the bug.

     

    More likely something is wrong with your printer.

     

    I'd check the feeder first as it's easy to do - although not with a material station.  You need to grab the filament below the feeder and fight the feeder.  A good feeder can pull 15 pounds.  Even 10 pounds is okay.  Yours probably can't even pull 5 pounds if it's the feeder.  It's probably not the feeder.  Also make sure the feeder tension is on the middle setting for TPLA.  Half way through the little window in the feeder.

     

    I'd replace the print core.  Many things can go wrong (the sensor, the inside of the nozzle can have build up, issues with the internal teflon, and more).  Just swap it with another print core.  Your S5 should have come with two AA 0.4 print cores.  Or just buy another one for a test.  It's worth it to have a 3rd printcore just to diagnose your issue.

     

    Those are two very quick things to check for.

     

    Also I know you said you checked the *middle* fan but check it while the print is failing.  The wires in the cable to the print head connector can get loose or other issues and it may start off spinning fine when you start printing but stop spinning when the print is failing.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Hi @gr5,

     

    Little reminder, we're having trouble on the Ultimaker 3 Extended. So unfortunately, the printing profiles we use with the S5 are not available for the U3.

     

    11 hours ago, gr5 said:

    What is the 15mm thing you refer to?  Do you mean ".15mm" layer height?

     

    What is the layer height for these prints?

    My bad, I meant 0,15 mm, so layer height is 0,15mm.

    image.png.c644551a4e0991630793a8f7d323f68a.png

     

     

    Then, with general printing speed I mean the Print Speed. The default Print Speed for TPLA is 45 mm/s. The print which failed was set to 50 mm/s, so that should not have been a problem.

    image.png.8a334cb00f918dadc1034263b82b0db7.png

     

     

    We've already exchanged the print cores with the S5, which prints perfectly fine with the cores, but the U3 fails prints with the same cores.

     

    I will check the feeders, but it is grinding into the filament. Sounds more like it has more than enough force rather than not enough.

    Will also check the fan during the print.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    It could possibly be the feeder.  For example if you ever print with glowfill or CF fill on the UM3 you will grind down the gnurling on the feeder so that the little pyramids are now smooth.  Then you can indeed grind up the filament.

     

    But also it could be in the hot end keeping the filament from moving and then you still get grinding at the feeder.  So the grinding doesn't tell you a ton except that something is wrong in the hot or cold end.

     

    Did I mention the front fan?  Your description sounds exactly like a bad front fan.  Did you check the front fan while it is underextruding?

     

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Here's an old list - this is my complete list of causes for underextrusion on UM3.  Maybe you can eliminate many of them immediately.  Some require tests.

     

    CAUSES FOR UNDEREXTRUSION ON UM3 AND HOW TO TEST FOR THEM AND REMEDY THEM

    As far as underextrusion causes - there's just so damn many.  none of the issues seem to cause more than 20% of problems so you need to know the top 5 issues to cover 75% of the possibilities and 1/4 people still won't have the right issue.  Some of the top issues:
    1) Print slower and hotter!  Here are top recommended speeds for .2mm layers (twice as fast for .1mm layers) and .4mm nozzle:
    20mm/sec at 200C
    30mm/sec at 210C
    40mm/sec at 225C
    50mm/sec at 240C
    The printer can do double these speeds but with huge difficulty and usually with a loss in part quality due to underextrusion.  Different colors print best at quite different temperatures and due to imperfect temp sensors, some printers print 10C cool so use these values as an initial starting guideline and if you are still underextruding try raising the temp.  But don't go over 240C with PLA.

    Note that your "print speed" may be 40mm/sec but it may be printing infill at 80mm/sec so CHECK ALL SPEEDS.

    2) Line Width larger than nozzle.  In cura 3.X search in settings for all line widths.  If any of them are larger than the nozzle diameter this can cause underextrusion.  There are 8 of these in cura 3.2.1.

    3) Curved filament at end of spool - if you are past half way on spool, try a fresh spool as a test.

    4) curved angle feeding into feeder - put the filament on the floor -makes a MASSIVE difference.

    5) Bad core.  Try a different core.  It could be clogged, or something more complex like the temp sensor in the core.

    5a) clogged nozzle - the number one most suspected problem of course.  Sometimes a grain of sand gets in there but that's more obvious (it just won't print).  Atomic method (cold pull) is the cure - from the menu do a few cold pulls.  The result should be filament that is the exact shape of the interior of the nozzle including the tiny passage to the tip of the nozzle.  If it doesn't look like that you need to pull at a colder temperature.  You can do it manually instead of through the menu if it's not working right but learn through the menu initially.  95C is roughly the correct "cold" temperature for PLA.  Higher temps for other filaments. Simpler cold pull (3dsolex cores only - doesn't work on ultimaker cores because you can't remove the nozzle): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u07m3HTNyEg


    5b) Temp Sensor bad - even the good ones vary by +/- 5C and bad ones can be any amount off - they usually read high and a working sensor can (rarely) fail high slowly over time.  Meaning the sensor thinks you are at 220C but actually you are at 170C.  At 170C the plastic is so viscous it can barely get out of the nozzle.  You can verify your temp sensor using this simple video at youtube - on you tube search for this: mrZbX-SfftU


    6) feeder spring issues - too tight, too loose.  You want the tension such that you can clearly see the diamond pattern biting into the filament.  You want to see at least 2 columns of diamonds.  4 columns is too much.  You usually want the tension in the center.  If the white marker isn't in the center, make sure the adjustment screw actually moves the marker.  If not then someone put the feeder back together wrong.

    7) Other feeder issues, one of the nuts holding UM2 and UM3 together often interferes with the feeder motor tilting it enough so that it still works but not very well.  Other things that tilt the feeder motor, sleeve misaligned so it doesn't get a good grip.  Gunk clogging the mechanism in there.

    😎 Filament diameter too big - 3mm is too much.  3mm filament is usually 2.85mm nominal or sometimes 2.9mm +/- .05.  But some manufacturers (especially in china) make true 3.0mm filament with a tolerance of .1mm which is useless in an Ultimaker.  It will print for a few meters and then clog so tight in the bowden you will have to remove the bowden from both ends to get the filament out.  Throw that filament in the trash!  It will save you weeks of pain

    8b) Something wedged in with the filament.  I was setting up 5 printers at once and ran filament change on all of them.  One was slowly moving the filament through the tube and was almost to the head when I pushed the button and it sped up and ground the filament badly.  I didn't think it was a problem and went ahead and printed something but there was a ground up spot followed by a flap of filament that  got jammed in the bowden tube.  Having the wedgebot (link below) helps you feel this with your hand by sliding the filament through the bowden a bit to see if it is stuck.

    https://www.youmagine.com/designs/wedgebot-for-ultimaker2

    9) Extruder mis calibrated.  Maybe you changed equipment or a wire fell off.  Try commanding the filament to move exactly 100mm and then measureing with a ruler that it moved 100mm within 10% accuracy.  If not adjust the steps/mm (this is done by editing a json file on the UM3).

    10) Z axis steps/mm.  it's easier than you might think to double or half the Z axis movement as there is a jumper on the circuit board that can be added or removed.  If the Z axis is moving 2X you will get 50% underextrusion.  Your parts will also be 2X as tall.

    11) Crimped bowden.  At least one person had an issue where the bowden was crimped a bit too much at the feeder end although the printer worked fine when new it eventually got worse and had underextrusion on random layers.  it's easy to pull the bowden out of the feeder end and examine it.  Similar to 8b above - use the wedgebot to feel how much friction there is in the bowden.

    12) Worn Bowden.  After a lot of printing (or a little printing with abrasive filaments) the bowden resistance can be significant. It's easy to test by removing it completely from the machine and inserting some filament through it while one person holds it in the U shape.  Preferably insert filament that has the pattern from the feeder and fight the movement by applying 2kg force on both ends at the same time and then seeing how much harder you have to push it on top of 1kg force.  UM2 feeders can push with 5kg force.  UM3 can push quite a bit more.  5kg is plenty.

    13) Small nozzle.  Rumor has it some of the .4mm nozzles are closer to .35mm.  Not sure if this is actually true.  I'm a bit skeptical but try a .6mm nozzle maybe.  This shouldn't be a problem on the UM3 which has very good quality control but try a different core.

    14) CF filament.  The knurled sleeve in the extruder can get ground down smooth - particularly from carbon fill.  4 spools of CF will destroy not just nozzles but the knurled sleeve also.  Look at it visually where the filament touches the "pyramids".  Make sure the pyramids are sharp.

    15) Hot feeder driver.  I've seen a more recent problem in the forums (>=2015) where people's stepper drivers get too hot - this is mostly a problem with the Z axis but also with the feeder.  The high temps means the driver appears to shut down for a well under a second - there is a temp sensor built into the driver chip.  The solution from Ultimaker for the um2 is that they lowered all the currents to their stepper drivers in the newer firmware.  Another solution is to remove the cover and use desk fan to get a tiny bit of air movement under there.  This doesn't seem to be a problem on UM3 even though it's the exact same circuitry but they lowered the current in the firmware.  But it's worth considering if air temp is 30C or hotter.  It would probably happen only after printing for a while (air heats up slowly under the printer).


    16) third fan broken.  This tends to cause complete non-extrusion part way through a print.  In the door of the head.  You can hear it come on when cores get above 40C.  Without this fan several things can go wrong.  It can take a while as usually you also need several retractions to carry the heat upwards.  There are a few failure mechanisms and I don't understand them all.  One of them is probably that the molten PLA spreads out above the teflon and sticks to the metal in a core or fills the gap at the base of the bowden in UM2.  Later it cools enough to keep the filament from moving up or down.

    17) Spiralize/vase mode.  This is a rarely used feature of Cura but you might have left it on by accident?  In this mode the wall of your part is printed in a single pass.  So if you have a .4mm core and the wall is .8mm thick it will try to over extrude by 2X.  This is difficult to do and may instead lead to underextrusion.

    18) too many retractions (this causes complete failure) - if you have too many retractions on the same piece of filament you can grind it to dust.  10 is usually safe.  20 is in the danger zone.  50 should guarantee failure.  You can tell cura to limit retractions to 10 per a given spot of filament.  Do this by setting "maximum retration count" to 10 and "minimum extrusion distance" to your retraction distance (4.5mm for UM2 and 6.5 for UM3).

    19) Brittle filament.  Espciallty with older PLA but even brand new pla can do this.  If you unspool some (for example if it's in the bowden) for many hours (e.g. 10 hours) it can get extremely brittle and it can snap off into multiple pieces in the bowden.  It's not obvious if you don't look for this.  Then it starts printing just fine and at some point one of those pieces reaches the print head and gets hung up somewhere and the printer suddenly stops extruding for now apparent reason.  This usually happens within the first meter of filament - once you get to printing the filament that was recently on the spool it should be fine from then on.

    20) The "plus" feeder can have an issue where the filament doesn't sit properly for one print and it permanently damages the arm inside the feeder as shown by this photo - the hole is ground down asymetrically: http://gr5.org/plus_feeder_issue.jpg

    21) Filament tangle - the end of the filament can get tucked under a loop on the spool and this tangle can propagate from then forever to the end of the spool until you fix it.  It will cause many many jam ups and slow then halt extrusion.  Repeatedly.  The fix is to remove the filament from the printer, unroll a few meters and respool and put back on the printer.  Never let go of the end of the filament spool until it's in the bowden.
    =======

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Question: Should feeder tension be the same for all nozzle sizes? I can feed well with 0.8 but 0.4 is under-extruded significantly.

     

    Olaf

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Hi,

    feeder tension is the same for all nozzle sizes. The only situation for changing the feeder tension is to lower it before taking the feeder apart for maintenance (cleaning) and restore it to the middle position after maintenance.

    Regards

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Some people lower feeder tension for very flexible materials like ninjaflex which is similar softness as the material in a rubber band.

     

    But the answer is "No, tension doesn't change for different nozzle sizes".

     

    If tension is too high you can grind up the filament into powder.  If too low it slips.

     

    So the 0.8 nozzle is 2X the diameter and 4X the area and has 4X less "friction" and so you can pass through 4X the volume per second (typically half of that is taken up by double line widths and the other half through thicker layers).

     

    Try a different AA 0.4 core (every printer comes with two AA 0.4 cores - maybe it's still in the original box?).  Your core may need some cold pulls (read about it in the maintenance menu), or maybe you are printing too cold or too fast.  Or maybe 10 other things.

     

    It's common for the inside of an AA 0.4 nozzle to get a layer of caramelized goo inside it such that it seems "fine" but it's really now a 0.3 nozzle and should probably be replaced or burnt out or it needs some very serious cold pulls.

     

    Ultimaker priced AA 0.4 cores "lower than filament costs" and it's meant to be an expendable part.  Like filament - sort of.  When I say cheaper than filament that assumes an absolute minimum of 4 spools of filament bought for every print core bought.

     

    Having said all that, cores tend to last a very long time.  I'm guessing 30-100 spools.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted (edited) · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    Hi @gr5,

     

    On 8/26/2023 at 3:54 AM, gr5 said:

    It could possibly be the feeder.  For example if you ever print with glowfill or CF fill on the UM3 you will grind down the gnurling on the feeder so that the little pyramids are now smooth.  Then you can indeed grind up the filament.

     

    But also it could be in the hot end keeping the filament from moving and then you still get grinding at the feeder.  So the grinding doesn't tell you a ton except that something is wrong in the hot or cold end.

     

    Did I mention the front fan?  Your description sounds exactly like a bad front fan.  Did you check the front fan while it is underextruding?

     

     

     

    We only print with Ultimaker materials and for like 95% PLA, TPLA, ABS and PVA. Then again, the knurled wheel has been replaced a while back (about 1,5 years back). After replacing them the error was still present, so we only printed ABS experiencing almost no grinding at all. Knurled wheels should therefore still be in fine condition.

     

    I've checked the front fan while it is underextruding, I've checked for a few layers and it was working fine.

     

    On 8/26/2023 at 3:57 AM, gr5 said:

    1) Print slower and hotter!  Here are top recommended speeds for .2mm layers (twice as fast for .1mm layers) and .4mm nozzle:
    20mm/sec at 200C
    30mm/sec at 210C
    40mm/sec at 225C
    50mm/sec at 240C
    The printer can do double these speeds but with huge difficulty and usually with a loss in part quality due to underextrusion.  Different colors print best at quite different temperatures and due to imperfect temp sensors, some printers print 10C cool so use these values as an initial starting guideline and if you are still underextruding try raising the temp.  But don't go over 240C with PLA.

    Note that your "print speed" may be 40mm/sec but it may be printing infill at 80mm/sec so CHECK ALL SPEEDS.

    The print profile as provided by Cura has a default temperature setting of 200 °C while printing speeds range from 30 to 80 mm/s. Does this mean I should ignore the provided profile due to low dependability, and create my own? I think this will be a long search of the right settings. Might prefer to buy a new printer then.

     

    Other question; our S5 prints perfectly. S5 Hardware is quite comparable with S3 hardware I think. Can I copy the settings from the standard profiles for the S5 to the U3?

     

    We'll soon discuss how to proceed with the situation. 1 printer is not enough to print PLA/TPLA with. For now we're looking at 2 possible options; Replace Feeder and printcore of de U3, or buy a new Ultimaker/Bambulab or other printer.

    Edited by DDoove
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Structural grinding when printing PLA with Ultimaker 3 extended

    80mm/sec with .2 layer and .4 line width is pushing things a bit.  Are you really doing .2 layer?  Thats .2*.4*80 = 6.4 cubic mm/sec.  The section #1 above was written for the UM2 *original* and the UM3 can print much faster.  I doubt this is your issue - if you are using the profiles for layer height, temp, line width, and speed, then #1 in my list is not the issue.

     

    Did you look at the other items in the list?  I never know what people are going to say - sometimes they are like "oh, the printer is in a room that is around 30C".  Most of the things in the list are unusual but worth going through the list.

     

    Underextrusion has to be either the cold end (the feeder), the hot end, or the bowden.  It's possible it is the bowden but not likely.  Above is a test to be absolutely sure it's not the feeder.  Finally it's almost surely the print core.  Since the printer came with 3 you can just try another.  The BB core can be used to print other materials.  You just have to hit the ignore button when it complains that you have the wrong core.

     

    You can indeed buy another printer but it seems like just buying a print core is cheaper.  Note that all your filament for the Ultimaker is "3mm" and Bambulabs uses 1.75mm filament so they are incompatible.

     

    I've heard both fantastic and horrible things about the bambulabs.  Amazing printer.  Tends to fall apart with loose screws and other issues that are very frustrating to figure out.  But more than half of them are absolutely fine.  Prints very fast.

     

    Unfortunately it's confusing, but there is the Ultimaker S3 and the Ultimaker 3 (and UM3 extended).  You have the UM3ext, right?

     

    Can you use S5 profiles on the UM3?  I don't know.  I never tried it.  You can use UM2go profiles on the UM2; or UM3 profiles on the extended.  But I've never tried S5 on UM3.  Your problem is almost certainly not Cura.  Well, unless you are using version 5.4.  There are some bugs in 5.4 that look similar to underextrusion but I don't think that's what you have.  Worth trying an older Cura I suppose.

     

    So I would slice for core #2.  That way you are using a different feeder, a different bowden, and also try a different print core.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now
    • Our picks

      • UltiMaker Cura 5.7 stable released
        Cura 5.7 is here and it brings a handy new workflow improvement when using Thingiverse and Cura together, as well as additional capabilities for Method series printers, and a powerful way of sharing print settings using new printer-agnostic project files! Read on to find out about all of these improvements and more. 
         
          • Like
        • 20 replies
      • S-Line Firmware 8.3.0 was released Nov. 20th on the "Latest" firmware branch.
        (Sorry, was out of office when this released)

        This update is for...
        All UltiMaker S series  
        New features
         
        Temperature status. During print preparation, the temperatures of the print cores and build plate will be shown on the display. This gives a better indication of the progress and remaining wait time. Save log files in paused state. It is now possible to save the printer's log files to USB if the currently active print job is paused. Previously, the Dump logs to USB option was only enabled if the printer was in idle state. Confirm print removal via Digital Factory. If the printer is connected to the Digital Factory, it is now possible to confirm the removal of a previous print job via the Digital Factory interface. This is useful in situations where the build plate is clear, but the operator forgot to select Confirm removal on the printer’s display. Visit this page for more information about this feature.
          • Like
        • 0 replies
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...