How do I make top layers independent of embossing?

[Deses 0]

Hi, I want to make some plaques, and I have to EMboss some text, but that obviously counts as top layers ruining the finish of the plaque a little bit.

 

 

I don't want to just have 6 top layers because that would make 6 top layers on some places and 3 on others, and then the 3 layers of embossing. I want 3 top layers of plaque and then 3 layers of embossing. How do i do that?

 

Project file attached. :)

Test.3mf

[Slashee_the_Cow 303]

Top layer settings aren't just the very top of the print - it's any part of the print exposed to air above it.

 

So you have 4 top layers set - here's layer 23 at the top. I'm assuming we're focusing on the circle bit:

Four layers going up to layer 23 starts at 20 (remember folks, we're counting inclusively here), so here's 20:

Most of the plaque finishes at layer 20, so it starts at layer 17:

 

The main part of the plaque becomes exposed to air above layer 20, so the last four layers (17-20) are printed as top layers. But the circle doesn't get exposed to air until you go above layer 23, so its last four layers are 20-23. So they only share one layer which gets completely filled in (20).

 

And if you're wondering about the text and picture not being cut out of 17-19, they're only a couple of lines wide so they're not big enough to be part of the enclosed area (something has to be big enough to have infill to count).

 

It's not going to be noticeable in the final print, nor does it affect the strength (unless you're deliberately trying to break it).

[Deses 0]

Yes, I know all that.

 

Now, how do I make what I want to achieve, if at all possible?

 

I don't want to print 4 top layers just to have 1 real complete layer under the logo and waste time doing 4 layers on the rest of the plaque.

[Torgeir 247]

Hi @Deses,

 

We would normally select the highest height Z resolution as possible, with your printer 0.12 mm, then your model will be 38 layer height. This will give 5 layers for the symbol and the letters to be extruded.

You'll need to lower the speed to default top layer speed 25 mm/s (or maybe less!).

To make a smooth surface (top), select "Enable Ironing" under "Top/Bottom" in Cura, but remember to deselect the "Iron Only Higher Layer" box setting. This way both the plaque surface and the text plus symbol are ironed.

In order to save filament and time, we're using to sink the model into the bed in order to print only the interesting layers.

Just use a negative value for Z height.

But a smaller model with same text symbol type go much faster for sure.

 

Just some small tip.

Good Luck

Torgeir

[Deses 0]

Hi @Torgeir. Funny enough my print quality looks better without ironing than with it enabled, as it's only ironing around the logos and letters, ironing in an uneven (non-monotonic??) order and making odd shades depending on how the light shines.

 

To aid in what I want to achieve, I separated the logo and letters and the plaque to different models and then put it together in CURA.

 

That results in what I want to do, but it's rather cumbersome to do.

Test2.3mf

[Torgeir 247]

Hi @Deses,

 

Ok, there are lots of way to do this for sure.

Using "Ironing" may need some fine tuning, I've learned in here - this are the balancing between speed and flow and both have to be with quite a lo settings. Only way to solve this are try to fine tune the setting for your printer, maybe someone have a profile for your printer printing nice using Ironing?

Hmm., maybe @GregValiant have some good advice with this?

 

 

[Deses 0]

Yes but we are fixating on the ironing, when what I want to do is have 3 complete top layers (18-19-20) on the plaque ignoring the 3 top layers where the letters are (21-22-23). Please let's ignore ironing for now.

Edited May 19 by Deses

[Torgeir 247]

Aha., Ok. Just to come to think about the setting "Horizontal Expansion", can be found under "Walls".

Press "search" and use "Horizontal Expansion" then select "Walls", default value here are "0".

By adjusting this value slightly under "0", -say -0.1 and see if the text become better (not leaving openings).

This is a way to adjust the width of the letters that might help..

Note: Using Cura 5.71

Edited May 19 by Torgeir
Additional text.

[Deses 0]

Sorry, what?

 

I don't need horizontal expansion here, on the contrary, enabling it makes some tildes not print at all. I usually print everything with -0.1 and removed it specifically for this job as it was not printing some small tildes.

 

I don't understand why are we fixating on unrelated stuff when I just want more complete top layers. Am I not explaining myself clearly enough?

Edited May 19 by Deses

[Torgeir 247]

Sorry man.

 

Actually, the first thing I noticed on your model was the undercut of the "logo" started inside the infill.

In layer 20 you'll also see the "shadow" of the logo with the text.

There are just one layer to cover the outer surface. Then my question, do you have the original cad drawing of this object?

I'll think this shadow layer disturb Cura/printer in some way visible in the print?

As have not printed this plaque, I've no idea of how it looks like.

I'll have a look at the gcode file in S3D.

[Torgeir 247]

Just looked at the plaque in S3D and sure the problem are the shadowing visible in layer 20.

If you change the the color scheme from "line" to "layer thickness" it's more easy to see this shadowing in the gcode file, using Cura.

So then I'll see that your solution make sense as there in no under laying "disturbing" layer present..

 

Edited May 19 by Torgeir
Additional text.

[Torgeir 247]

Just sliced the plaque with Cura 14.3.1, the last stable old version of Cura that's look ok.

Sure I'll know that different object are sliced different over all the different slicers, but this one is some strange.

Maybe someone else fill in here.

 

CE3E3V2_Test.gcode

 

Torgeir.

[Slashee_the_Cow 303]

11 hours ago, Deses said:

I don't want to print 4 top layers just to have 1 real complete layer under the logo and waste time doing 4 layers on the rest of the plaque.

Really bad idea.

• Unless maybe you're printing black, a single skin layer isn't going to be opaque enough and you're going to be able to see through to the infill, which will be exacerbated if you're using the Grid or Lines infill pattern, because that just has complete hollow spaces vertically so any source of light will just go straight through. Even black would show light through, it just might be enough to hide the individual lines.
  • At that thickness and infill density, even the patterns which create filled volumes (Cubic, Cubic Subdivision, Octet and Quarter Cubic) aren't going to have enough infill to actually complete whole pockets so there'd still be some see through.
  • Given that, Gyroid would be the best for blocking light transmission but it's still not going to be anywhere near enough to actually block the light and you'd be able to see squiggly lines through it.
• The surface pattern is also going to be a lot more visible with just a single layer, and not just because you'll be able to see the light. This is why the Lines and Zig Zag patterns alternate their direction every layer by default.
• If air pockets are created during printing, a single layer of skin isn't going to be enough to flatten them out so your result might have bulges in it.
• With your current infill settings, the lines are 4mm apart. That means for the first skin layer it's bridging 4mm gaps constantly. If any of them sag a bit, they're not going to have any more skin on top to hide that.
• If you're printing PLA, remember that that is fairly brittle. If these plaques are awards and you want them to last, you need more strength than just a single layer. I could push through it enough to break it open using just my pinkie finger with just a single layer. Also, I don't know how hot it gets where you are, but PLA has a glass transition temperature of about 52°C I think so it'll start melting as soon as it gets that hot, and unsupported roof is going to be one of the first things to go.
  • If you're printing PETG, it's almost certainly going to sag enough in those gaps that you'd notice it.
  • If you're printing ABS, I'm not sure it would have the adhesion to keep straight lines going bridging the distance over the infill.
• For basically all of these reasons except bridging, you're going to want more than two bottom layers.

Still, if you insist... just don't say I didn't warn you.

test single top.3mf

[Deses 0]

I asked somewhere else and they gave me the answer I wanted straight away.

 

I just needed to play around with Skin Expand Distance.

 

It was that simple, guys.

Test3.3mf

Edited May 20 by Deses

[Slashee_the_Cow 303]

2 hours ago, Deses said:

I just needed to play around with Skin Expand Distance.

 

It was that simple, guys.

It is that simple when you change the rules 😠

 

22 hours ago, Deses said:

I don't want to print 4 top layers just to have 1 real complete layer under the logo and waste time doing 4 layers on the rest of the plaque.

So you reduced the top layers to 3. That's not having 1 complete layer and not "wasting time" with more layers for the rest of the plaque. I could have told you to play with the skin expansion in 30 seconds if you'd said "I want all the layers below the plaque to be full without a cutout for the logo".

 

Also: at 0.2mm layer height, 4 top and bottom layers. Trust me on this. Especially if you're going to stick with grid for your infill pattern. With how you've lowered the density the lines are now more than 5mm apart. The first skin layer is going to have to bridge many gaps that big and if you're only printing it at 30mm/s, you're relying on filament to stay in place without sagging for 0.2 seconds. Might not sound like much but how many things do you know of that completely set in 0.2 seconds? (Speaking of which: fan should be at 100%). If you insist on printing with this low an infill density, use gyroid infill. It nearly halves the distance between lines compared to grid.

 

But if you're giving these things out as prizes, you want them to be top notch.

Slow print > bad print.

More filament used > weak print.

[Deses 0]

Sorry, I did not change the rules, I think you either misunderstood me or I wasn't clear enough. 

 

Regardless, we are done here. Thank you for your time. :)