Print with bronzefill fail 'material error' (SOLVED)

[jaysenodell 18]

If it is directional and "after time" can you compare "when it occurs" on multiple models to see if it is at the same approximate height on the model? I recently had a similar issue that was caused by a change I made yo my enclosure creating drag on my filament feed when the gantry was in specific locaitons. The drag resulted in undre extrusion. In my case a small change to filament routing addressed the problem. I've heard of warn Bowden/ptfe tubes causing excess drag as well. 

 

Just an idea. 

[Torgeir 262]

Hi @Xhoax,

------------------------

Xhoax said

 

With the 0.6 we are printing and the error doesn't occur. But there is some underextrusion. See photo below.

 

UMS3(photo)

We did the test printing at 195° and flow 100%

Wall speed 30

Infill speed 45

Retraction distance 4.5 and speed 30 

 

The Tower thing wint help because the underextrusion is only after few hours. We alsof notice that the infill the lines from left onder to upper right are good.

And from right under to upper left are bad.

How?? 

 

I don't think this is better, what can we try to improve this?

---------------------------

 

Well, -this filament are not easy to deal with, so lets look a little more into this filament.

From the properties for a clean copper, we know that copper is a good electrical conductor -and this are also true for the heat transmission.   Also, just to mention, -this filament bring us into the "experimental" mode -as there are no "official" profile for this filament, yet..

 

After looking into your pictures, it made me think that this are a kind of friction making this fluttering lines.

So, during printing the heat transfer much faster along the filament due to the high amount of copper infill.

This may soften the filament above the teflon insulator adding more friction to the feeding of the filament -and this could be the reason for uneven extrution/under extrution that's become visible in the print object. It may take some time for this to occur.

 

I'll assume that you're printing only with nozzle no 1, right?  (Cause your support are also printed with same filament?)

If the above is right; "how can we prevent this softening of the filament in the "cold" zone of the nozzle unit?"

 

There are (at last) two ways of doing this, printing without using the heat bed

and/or improve the cooling of the nozzle no 1.

 

So to your settings:

 

I would increase the flow to (103-105)% this as "infilled filament" always need more flow than "clean" filament, due to the added friction by high density filament.

 

Speed: You better use the same speed for all print setting (outer, inner and infill), I would go with 25 mm/s. (Steady speed are important with this type of filament, as often speed changes -can create lines due to difference feeding.)

 

Retraction; I'll think 4.5 mm at speed 30 mm/s are ok. (Normally we use 6.5mm.) This lo distance are used to avoiding molten plastic to enter the cold part of the nozzle. Maybe less retraction than this can help a little, if this is the problem..

 

3d printing with this type of filament can be very challenging, as small variations in settings can have a big impact on the quality of the object you print.

 

Hope this can give some improvement to your project.

Thanks

Torgeir

Edited August 8 by Torgeir
Added text.

[gr5 2,224]

The infill is likely at a different print speed.  A faster print speed.  Slow that one down to the speed of the walls which look better.  But keep in mind that it's normal for infill to be a bit underextruded as it is intended mostly to hold up top surfaces (similar to support).  But not this underextruded.

 

Tower is mostly only intended to be used when you have dual extrusion to help prime a new nozzle everytime you swap nozzles.  For a single extrusion print it just causes problems.

[Xhoax 4]

On 8/9/2024 at 12:28 AM, Torgeir said:

Hi @Xhoax,

------------------------

Xhoax said

 

With the 0.6 we are printing and the error doesn't occur. But there is some underextrusion. See photo below.

 

UMS3(photo)

We did the test printing at 195° and flow 100%

Wall speed 30

Infill speed 45

Retraction distance 4.5 and speed 30 

 

The Tower thing wint help because the underextrusion is only after few hours. We alsof notice that the infill the lines from left onder to upper right are good.

And from right under to upper left are bad.

How?? 

 

I don't think this is better, what can we try to improve this?

---------------------------

 

Well, -this filament are not easy to deal with, so lets look a little more into this filament.

From the properties for a clean copper, we know that copper is a good electrical conductor -and this are also true for the heat transmission.   Also, just to mention, -this filament bring us into the "experimental" mode -as there are no "official" profile for this filament, yet..

 

After looking into your pictures, it made me think that this are a kind of friction making this fluttering lines.

So, during printing the heat transfer much faster along the filament due to the high amount of copper infill.

This may soften the filament above the teflon insulator adding more friction to the feeding of the filament -and this could be the reason for uneven extrution/under extrution that's become visible in the print object. It may take some time for this to occur.

 

I'll assume that you're printing only with nozzle no 1, right?  (Cause your support are also printed with same filament?)

If the above is right; "how can we prevent this softening of the filament in the "cold" zone of the nozzle unit?"

 

There are (at last) two ways of doing this, printing without using the heat bed

and/or improve the cooling of the nozzle no 1.

 

So to your settings:

 

I would increase the flow to (103-105)% this as "infilled filament" always need more flow than "clean" filament, due to the added friction by high density filament.

 

Speed: You better use the same speed for all print setting (outer, inner and infill), I would go with 25 mm/s. (Steady speed are important with this type of filament, as often speed changes -can create lines due to difference feeding.)

 

Retraction; I'll think 4.5 mm at speed 30 mm/s are ok. (Normally we use 6.5mm.) This lo distance are used to avoiding molten plastic to enter the cold part of the nozzle. Maybe less retraction than this can help a little, if this is the problem..

 

3d printing with this type of filament can be very challenging, as small variations in settings can have a big impact on the quality of the object you print.

 

Hope this can give some improvement to your project.

Thanks

Torgeir

Thank you for this input. I feel like i owe you a drink!

We are making good statues now.

Heated bed off

All speeds at 25mm

Flow 105%

 

The last print we had a weird thing, the print is super smooth, but we have lines and underextrusion at top of the print.

 

Is this random? Or can this be fixed?

It was very hot yesterday 35+°C where we are printing. Could this be it.

 

Thanks again

[Torgeir 262]

Hi @Xhoax.

 

This looks much better and I'll think this are the a bit of "softening of filament" in the cold area of the core.

Remember, a little less retraction "may" remove this -but may also led to more stringing.

 

You're only using the left (no. 1) core right, -and the right (no. 2) core are not USED during this print.

If you want to improve the cooling flow to core no1, core no2 can be partly blocked by rolling a length (1.5 turn and lock with scotch tape) of paper around the cooling fins leaving two fins open for cooling the electronics in the back.

This might increase the air flow from 100% to approx 135% through core 1, if you're lucky..   You may use an old core for this purpose..   This might be enough for you to have success with this experimental printing..

So, remember to remove this "modification" after this special printing.

 

Sure, -this is not something Ultimaker recommend.

 

An air-conditioned printing office would be a perfect solution.

 

Thanks

Torgeir

 

[gr5 2,224]

35C can cause 2 different problems.  The extruder drivers (the electronics) overheat easily and they have a thermal cutoff so when they get above a certain temperature they shut down.  Only for a few milliseconds at a time but enough for the extruder to spin backwards.  This will cause zero extrusion for sometimes as long as 20 seconds.

 

Also it can soften PLA filament and make it so that it comes out the feeder squished.  The feeder is already quite warm from the stepper motor which can get warm.

 

These temperatures (35C) will not harm or affect the steppers themselves and will not cause any damage to the printer.

 

The second problem listed above could be fixed if you can find other types of brass fill filament.  Anything besides PLA as all other filaments melt at higher temperatures than PLA.  PETG would be ideal.  Note that PETG has to be kept extremely dry.  Humid air will "ruin" PETG in just a week or so.  It needs to be stored in a sealed container and never left idle on the back of the printer.  Inside the sealed container you want about 1/4 litre of color changing desiccant and you need to recharge the desiccant in the microwave every few months.  "wet" PETG strings like crazy.

 

PLA doesn't have any issues with water or humidity.  I have left PLA out in humid air for years and there is no problem.

[Xhoax 4]

On 8/14/2024 at 2:41 PM, gr5 said:

35C can cause 2 different problems.  The extruder drivers (the electronics) overheat easily and they have a thermal cutoff so when they get above a certain temperature they shut down.  Only for a few milliseconds at a time but enough for the extruder to spin backwards.  This will cause zero extrusion for sometimes as long as 20 seconds.

 

Also it can soften PLA filament and make it so that it comes out the feeder squished.  The feeder is already quite warm from the stepper motor which can get warm.

 

These temperatures (35C) will not harm or affect the steppers themselves and will not cause any damage to the printer.

 

The second problem listed above could be fixed if you can find other types of brass fill filament.  Anything besides PLA as all other filaments melt at higher temperatures than PLA.  PETG would be ideal.  Note that PETG has to be kept extremely dry.  Humid air will "ruin" PETG in just a week or so.  It needs to be stored in a sealed container and never left idle on the back of the printer.  Inside the sealed container you want about 1/4 litre of color changing desiccant and you need to recharge the desiccant in the microwave every few months.  "wet" PETG strings like crazy.

 

PLA doesn't have any issues with water or humidity.  I have left PLA out in humid air for years and there is no problem.

This was it, the ambiant temperature.

 

It's cooler now and we are printing perfect statues now

 

So thanks everyone for the input!

[Xhoax 4]

On 8/14/2024 at 2:18 AM, Torgeir said:

Hi @Xhoax.

 

This looks much better and I'll think this are the a bit of "softening of filament" in the cold area of the core.

Remember, a little less retraction "may" remove this -but may also led to more stringing.

 

You're only using the left (no. 1) core right, -and the right (no. 2) core are not USED during this print.

If you want to improve the cooling flow to core no1, core no2 can be partly blocked by rolling a length (1.5 turn and lock with scotch tape) of paper around the cooling fins leaving two fins open for cooling the electronics in the back.

This might increase the air flow from 100% to approx 135% through core 1, if you're lucky..   You may use an old core for this purpose..   This might be enough for you to have success with this experimental printing..

So, remember to remove this "modification" after this special printing.

 

Sure, -this is not something Ultimaker recommend.

 

An air-conditioned printing office would be a perfect solution.

 

Thanks

Torgeir

 

This was it, the ambiant temperature.

 

 

 

It's cooler now and we are printing perfect statues now

 

 

 

So thanks everyone for the input!

[gr5 2,224]

14 minutes ago, Xhoax said:

It's cooler now and we are printing perfect statues now

 

Good to know!  Thanks for the information!