Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

[msurunner 2]

Okay, so I've got a couple thoughts for you Daid that I think would greatly improve some prints for Cura 14.4.

First, a comb vs. retract variable would be awesome. I.E., I don't mind if it wants to comb on an infill around the steeply angled portion of a circle where it would be combing less than 10 mm, but I don't want it to comb all the way across the 200 mm part. That should be a fairly easy one I think, just comparing the two values and generating the appropriate move based upon the user variable (probably in the expert settings so the newbies don't accidentally mess things up).

Second, I'm still not 100% sold on the current internal brim setting and think that an additional option for internal brim count would be awesome. Again, in the expert settings next to the current brim count. I think that would actually speed up the work flow through the slice depending on the algorithm you are using to determine if it has closed the gap or not, but I could be wrong.

I know Cura is supposed to be a simple GUI for beginning to intermediate users, so I would totally understand if you wanted to keep those out of the equation to avoid the over-variablization that made SF give birth to Cura, but if they are kept in the Expert Settings, I think everyone wins still.

Thanks for everything you have already done!

 

[nick-foley 5]

I agree completely about the combing vs. retraction threshold. I've had way too many prints structurally ruined due to long combing moves that cause massive underextrusion after dropping all of their plastic during the comb.

I don't even think it necessarily needs to be a user-facing variable - just set it so that all moves longer than 10mm or so require a retraction. I think there is probably a sweet spot around 10mm which is the correct value in almost all circumstances

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Okay, so I've got a couple thoughts for you Daid that I think would greatly improve some prints for Cura 14.4.

First, a comb vs. retract variable would be awesome. I.E., I don't mind if it wants to comb on an infill around the steeply angled portion of a circle where it would be combing less than 10 mm, but I don't want it to comb all the way across the 200 mm part. That should be a fairly easy one I think, just comparing the two values and generating the appropriate move based upon the user variable (probably in the expert settings so the newbies don't accidentally mess things up).

 

 

I agree completely about the combing vs. retraction threshold. I've had way too many prints structurally ruined due to long combing moves that cause massive underextrusion after dropping all of their plastic during the comb.

I don't even think it necessarily needs to be a user-facing variable - just set it so that all moves longer than 10mm or so require a retraction. I think there is probably a sweet spot around 10mm which is the correct value in almost all circumstances

 

Guys, for the case you don't know the plugin: RetractWhileCombing might give you what you want when filled with the right numbers...

 

[nick-foley 5]

Wow, very useful. Had no idea that existed!

Which brings up another problem: Cura plugins are impossible to find! There is no way to browse them! Even now, browsing the Ultimaker Wiki, your plugin doesn't show up in the list of available plugins.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Wow, very useful. Had no idea that existed!

Which brings up another problem: Cura plugins are impossible to find! There is no way to browse them! Even now, browsing the Ultimaker Wiki, your plugin doesn't show up in the list of available plugins.

 

It's right at the top of the middle column of the cathegory table on the plugin-page.

 

[gr5 2,265]

The wiki is editable by anyone (you just need to register) and Dimensioneer knows this so he edited it himself a while back.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Thanks for the flowers!

The plugin documentation mechanism is actually quite nice. You write your own plugin, you put it into the plugin folder of your Cura installation, you activate the plugin, you press the '?'-button on the activated plugin and an initial documentation page is automatically created for your plugin!

And then you need the login which gr5 just mentioned... B)

 

[nick-foley 5]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkx6r2p8qbaygtf/Capture.JPG

Where???

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkx6r2p8qbaygtf/Capture.JPG

Where???

 

What the ... !?!

Are we browsing the same internet?

Mine looks like this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15273556/Ultimaker/Pictures/curapluginpagebottom.jpg

EDIT: must be a permission issue. 20 plugins are displayed if one is logged in, 13 if not. Maybe illuminarti can help? I think to remember he fixed some other issues on the wiki.

 

[msurunner 2]

Didn't know about the plug-in, but I still would maintain that if it were a user entered value rather than a post-script plug-in, it would be better in the long run. Regardless, I would still like to see the internal vs. external brim line count option.

Also, I have looked for like fifteen minutes trying to get the same one you're looking at Dim3nsioneer... I'm apparently on the wrong internet too.

 

[Nicolinux 288]

Guys the combing vs. retraction is not only useful for structural integrity when it produces underextrusion on long moves, the top layer also suffers because there are long travel moves that are very visible:

 

[msurunner 2]

^Exactly what I mean.

 

[Daid 306]

I know Cura is supposed to be a simple GUI for beginning to intermediate users, so I would totally understand if you wanted to keep those out of the equation to avoid the over-variablization that made SF give birth to Cura, but if they are kept in the Expert Settings, I think everyone wins still.

 

FYI, The expert settings dialog is on the chopping block ;-)

 

[Nicolinux 288]

What?!?!?!

Do tell.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

If I chop something, then I have more individual pieces afterwards which I can arrange in various ways. Remembering Daid saying he doesn't want Cura to become Slic3r, I doubt that I share Daid's idea of a chopping block...

[Daid 306]

If I chop something, then I have more individual pieces afterwards which I can arrange in various ways. Remembering Daid saying he doesn't want Cura to become Slic3r, I doubt that I share Daid's idea of a chopping block...

 

Actually, I think you are wrong. I think our ideas match more then you would think.

The expert settings dialog is becoming an unwieldy beast. And most settings actually relate to something you configure at another place. So the idea is to give each setting "group" different levels of configuration. So you no longer have expert-settings. You have expert-brim-settings for example. Gives room for more settings, without cluttering the UI with lots of options. As you only see what you want to see. (and if you want to see everything, you can)

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Actually, I think you are wrong. I think our ideas match more then you would think.

The expert settings dialog is becoming an unwieldy beast. And most settings actually relate to something you configure at another place. So the idea is to give each setting "group" different levels of configuration. So you no longer have expert-settings. You have expert-brim-settings for example. Gives room for more settings, without cluttering the UI with lots of options. As you only see what you want to see. (and if you want to see everything, you can)

 

Sometimes, I really like when I'm wrong... Great news!

 

[gr5 2,265]

You should be able to get to the retract while combing plugin directly here:

http://wiki.ultimaker.com/CuraPlugin:_RetractWhileCombing

Daid? Who is in charge of the wiki? For some reason it seems to have some kind of script or feature that i can't get to that only shows certain plugins if you don't log into the wiki. But if you create an account on the wiki and log in you see another 7 plugins.

 

[aviphysics 9]

Love the plugin

 

[Nicolinux 288]

I didn't know about it because the wiki didn't show it :/

 

[aviphysics 9]

does the "layer number" setting use layer numbers as specified in the gcode file or as specified in the GUI or are they the same now. At least in earlier version of Cura, they were offset by 1 in the GUI vs the gcode.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

does the "layer number" setting use layer numbers as specified in the gcode file or as specified in the GUI or are they the same now. At least in earlier version of Cura, they were offset by 1 in the GUI vs the gcode.

 

It's the layer number in GCODE.

btw: I think there is still a discrepancy of the layer numbers in the GUI and the GCODE... :huh:

But the GUI will change anyway...

 

[gr5 2,265]

It's fixed! Someone fixed it! I brought it to the attention of Daid, and Sander and someone fixed it. Yay. Now all 20 are visible even if you don't log into the wiki.

http://wiki.ultimaker.com/Category:CuraPlugin

 

[msurunner 2]

I like the idea of the eliminating the expert settings. Sounds like a solid plan. I am against declaring the retract while comb as the final solution, though. That still will cause the nozzle to follow a combing path, and yes it should help with face scarring and material loss, but it still is not ideal. If I am executing a retraction, I want the nozzle to then move as quickly as possible to the next location, not work itself to the next location along as many perimeters as possible. Just my two cents, as that should be a simple "If/then" in the logic sequence that should provide a lot of benefits I think. And again, please please please on internal brim count!

Thanks Daid!