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Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts


msurunner
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Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

Okay, so I've got a couple thoughts for you Daid that I think would greatly improve some prints for Cura 14.4.

First, a comb vs. retract variable would be awesome. I.E., I don't mind if it wants to comb on an infill around the steeply angled portion of a circle where it would be combing less than 10 mm, but I don't want it to comb all the way across the 200 mm part. That should be a fairly easy one I think, just comparing the two values and generating the appropriate move based upon the user variable (probably in the expert settings so the newbies don't accidentally mess things up).

Second, I'm still not 100% sold on the current internal brim setting and think that an additional option for internal brim count would be awesome. Again, in the expert settings next to the current brim count. I think that would actually speed up the work flow through the slice depending on the algorithm you are using to determine if it has closed the gap or not, but I could be wrong.

I know Cura is supposed to be a simple GUI for beginning to intermediate users, so I would totally understand if you wanted to keep those out of the equation to avoid the over-variablization that made SF give birth to Cura, but if they are kept in the Expert Settings, I think everyone wins still.

Thanks for everything you have already done!

 

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    I agree completely about the combing vs. retraction threshold. I've had way too many prints structurally ruined due to long combing moves that cause massive underextrusion after dropping all of their plastic during the comb.

    I don't even think it necessarily needs to be a user-facing variable - just set it so that all moves longer than 10mm or so require a retraction. I think there is probably a sweet spot around 10mm which is the correct value in almost all circumstances

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Okay, so I've got a couple thoughts for you Daid that I think would greatly improve some prints for Cura 14.4.

    First, a comb vs. retract variable would be awesome. I.E., I don't mind if it wants to comb on an infill around the steeply angled portion of a circle where it would be combing less than 10 mm, but I don't want it to comb all the way across the 200 mm part. That should be a fairly easy one I think, just comparing the two values and generating the appropriate move based upon the user variable (probably in the expert settings so the newbies don't accidentally mess things up).

     

     

    I agree completely about the combing vs. retraction threshold. I've had way too many prints structurally ruined due to long combing moves that cause massive underextrusion after dropping all of their plastic during the comb.

    I don't even think it necessarily needs to be a user-facing variable - just set it so that all moves longer than 10mm or so require a retraction. I think there is probably a sweet spot around 10mm which is the correct value in almost all circumstances

     

    Guys, for the case you don't know the plugin: RetractWhileCombing might give you what you want when filled with the right numbers... ;)

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Wow, very useful. Had no idea that existed!

    Which brings up another problem: Cura plugins are impossible to find! There is no way to browse them! Even now, browsing the Ultimaker Wiki, your plugin doesn't show up in the list of available plugins.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Wow, very useful. Had no idea that existed!

    Which brings up another problem: Cura plugins are impossible to find! There is no way to browse them! Even now, browsing the Ultimaker Wiki, your plugin doesn't show up in the list of available plugins.

     

    It's right at the top of the middle column of the cathegory table on the plugin-page.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    The wiki is editable by anyone (you just need to register) and Dimensioneer knows this so he edited it himself a while back. :)

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Thanks for the flowers! :D

    The plugin documentation mechanism is actually quite nice. You write your own plugin, you put it into the plugin folder of your Cura installation, you activate the plugin, you press the '?'-button on the activated plugin and an initial documentation page is automatically created for your plugin!

    And then you need the login which gr5 just mentioned... B)

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts
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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    What the ... !?!

    Are we browsing the same internet?

    Mine looks like this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15273556/Ultimaker/Pictures/curapluginpagebottom.jpg

    EDIT: must be a permission issue. 20 plugins are displayed if one is logged in, 13 if not. Maybe illuminarti can help? I think to remember he fixed some other issues on the wiki.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Didn't know about the plug-in, but I still would maintain that if it were a user entered value rather than a post-script plug-in, it would be better in the long run. Regardless, I would still like to see the internal vs. external brim line count option.

    Also, I have looked for like fifteen minutes trying to get the same one you're looking at Dim3nsioneer... I'm apparently on the wrong internet too.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Guys the combing vs. retraction is not only useful for structural integrity when it produces underextrusion on long moves, the top layer also suffers because there are long travel moves that are very visible:

    combing

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    ^Exactly what I mean.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    I know Cura is supposed to be a simple GUI for beginning to intermediate users, so I would totally understand if you wanted to keep those out of the equation to avoid the over-variablization that made SF give birth to Cura, but if they are kept in the Expert Settings, I think everyone wins still.

     

    FYI, The expert settings dialog is on the chopping block ;-)

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    What?!?!?!

    Do tell.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    If I chop something, then I have more individual pieces afterwards which I can arrange in various ways. Remembering Daid saying he doesn't want Cura to become Slic3r, I doubt that I share Daid's idea of a chopping block...

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    If I chop something, then I have more individual pieces afterwards which I can arrange in various ways. Remembering Daid saying he doesn't want Cura to become Slic3r, I doubt that I share Daid's idea of a chopping block...

     

    Actually, I think you are wrong. I think our ideas match more then you would think.

    The expert settings dialog is becoming an unwieldy beast. And most settings actually relate to something you configure at another place. So the idea is to give each setting "group" different levels of configuration. So you no longer have expert-settings. You have expert-brim-settings for example. Gives room for more settings, without cluttering the UI with lots of options. As you only see what you want to see. (and if you want to see everything, you can)

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Actually, I think you are wrong. I think our ideas match more then you would think.

    The expert settings dialog is becoming an unwieldy beast. And most settings actually relate to something you configure at another place. So the idea is to give each setting "group" different levels of configuration. So you no longer have expert-settings. You have expert-brim-settings for example. Gives room for more settings, without cluttering the UI with lots of options. As you only see what you want to see. (and if you want to see everything, you can)

     

    Sometimes, I really like when I'm wrong... :) Great news!

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    You should be able to get to the retract while combing plugin directly here:

    http://wiki.ultimaker.com/CuraPlugin:_RetractWhileCombing

    Daid? Who is in charge of the wiki? For some reason it seems to have some kind of script or feature that i can't get to that only shows certain plugins if you don't log into the wiki. But if you create an account on the wiki and log in you see another 7 plugins.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    Love the plugin

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    I didn't know about it because the wiki didn't show it :/

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    does the "layer number" setting use layer numbers as specified in the gcode file or as specified in the GUI or are they the same now. At least in earlier version of Cura, they were offset by 1 in the GUI vs the gcode.

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    does the "layer number" setting use layer numbers as specified in the gcode file or as specified in the GUI or are they the same now. At least in earlier version of Cura, they were offset by 1 in the GUI vs the gcode.

     

    It's the layer number in GCODE.

    btw: I think there is still a discrepancy of the layer numbers in the GUI and the GCODE... :huh:

    But the GUI will change anyway...

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    It's fixed! Someone fixed it! I brought it to the attention of Daid, and Sander and someone fixed it. Yay. Now all 20 are visible even if you don't log into the wiki.

    http://wiki.ultimaker.com/Category:CuraPlugin

     

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    Posted · Comb vs Retraction and other thoughts

    I like the idea of the eliminating the expert settings. Sounds like a solid plan. I am against declaring the retract while comb as the final solution, though. That still will cause the nozzle to follow a combing path, and yes it should help with face scarring and material loss, but it still is not ideal. If I am executing a retraction, I want the nozzle to then move as quickly as possible to the next location, not work itself to the next location along as many perimeters as possible. Just my two cents, as that should be a simple "If/then" in the logic sequence that should provide a lot of benefits I think. And again, please please please on internal brim count!

    Thanks Daid!

     

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