Using E3D nozzles on an Original extruder

[zumfab 3]

As I am gearing up to experiment with the new Colorfabb XT-CF20, I am looking into different nozzle options due to the extra wear this type of filament causes. E3D does not only have brass nozzles, but also stainless steel ones. For as far as I understand, these nozzles should pretty much be a drop in replacement, though they are a bit shorted, so either the end-stop, the platform or the software will need to be adjusted to make this work.

I very much like the idea of having different nozzle options, which will be handy for metal filled filament too, but feel there is currently no need to replace the full extruder. Has anyone tried the E3D nozzles with the Ultimaker Original extruder? What were the results?

 

[Labern 774]

I have been running the E3D stainless steel nozzles and printing with XT-CF20 for about 2 weeks on my UM2. the nozzles are great but im not sure about fitting them to UM0.

I find you have to set the temp a little higher then the brass nozzles and slow down the rate the fans come on otherwise I get under extrusion. but you might get different results on the UM0 setup.

 

[chrisr 18]

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7689-custom-heater-block-to-fit-e3d-nozzle-on-ultimaker-2/

Any good?

 

[zumfab 3]

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7689-custom-heater-block-to-fit-e3d-nozzle-on-ultimaker-2/

Any good?

 

To be blunt, I have literally no idea what the Ultimaker 2 extruder looks like and whether any of that is applicable to the Original. If I am to believe the spare parts page it looks different in what appear to be relevant ways.

If anyone could fill me in, that information would be more than welcome

 

I have been running the E3D stainless steel nozzles and printing with XT-CF20 for about 2 weeks on my UM2. the nozzles are great but im not sure about fitting them to UM0.

I find you have to set the temp a little higher then the brass nozzles and slow down the rate the fans come on otherwise I get under extrusion. but you might get different results on the UM0 setup.

 

I will keep this in mind, it's always good to have some ideas on where to go when things do not work out.

 

[Anders Olsson 136]

You might have a problem with the fan shroud hitting the platform: http://ultimaker.com/en/ultimaker-original/view/78-quality1

Apart from that, I see no particular reason why it would not work.

I have only tested the other way around, UMO-nozzle fitted to the custom heater block on the UM2, and it worked fine.

 

[zumfab 3]

You might have a problem with the fan shroud hitting the platform: http://ultimaker.com/en/ultimaker-original/view/78-quality1

 

Apart from that, I see no particular reason why it would not work.

I have only tested the other way around, UMO-nozzle fitted to the custom heater block on the UM2, and it worked fine.

 

That 3,5 mm difference is one thing to look out for indeed, though that is something that should be fixable I am looking into how to do that exactly, but since I plan on installing after market shrouds I have some play.

 

[tommyph1208 55]

It should work just fine if you pay attention to the shroud, adjust z home etc.

A very common approach when people started adopting the E3D hotend (at least v5)into UMOs, has been to keep the UM heatblock, incl. heater and thermocouple.. This way, there was less things to rip apart, less risk of damaging heater or thermocouple, you didn't have to drill out the thermistor hole in the e3d block, etc.

Summing up: E3D nozzles fit the UMO heatblock just fine

If you indeed are starting to experiment with exotic filament, I would suggest just going full E3D v6 though

[amedee 349]

On my old UMO, I have 3mm clearance for the fan shroud. So I can easily re-print it a bit smaller.

On the UMO+ I would have to get rid of the 'nice' metal shroud.

 

If you indeed are starting to experiment with exotic filament, I would suggest just going full E3D v6 though

 

Which implies a bit more hacking on the electrical part, as if I get it right you need additional power for the head fan, and the right voltage for the head...

 

[tommyph1208 55]

Which implies a bit more hacking on the electrical part, as if I get it right you need additional power for the head fan, and the right voltage for the head...

 

- Yes... The active cooling of the cold part of the E3D hotend (man that was a complicated explanation) is a tiny 12V fan I would think the UMO board should be able to deliver that tiny addintional amount of current on the 12v, without any problems.

Plugging it in with eg. the fans for the electronics cooling (since they are also supposed to be always on)

- The UMO heater cartridge for the hotend is 18V, 40W...

E3D will ship either 12V or 24V, 40W heaters...

BUT, if you keep the original UMO heatblock, thermocouple and heater, and replace the rest with E3D parts, you are past that problem... this way you can go with the "metal parts only" option on E3Ds website (though you would have to supply a small 12V fan yourself, or buy it on the website as well)

Alternatively you can move the original heater and thermocouple from the UMO heatblock to the E3D heatblock (which for the v6 is smaller, and nicer in design), but you would have to drill out the thermistor hole to fit the thermocouple (and tolerances are quite tight), or get rid of the thermocouple (and the annoying amplifier board) and just use the thermistor (this of course requires some firmware changes)

 

[amedee 349]

Thank you for all the explanations.

So the original heater with the E3D thermistor seems to be the less intrusive (just another firmware and a resistance on the board)

In case I would like to use the E3D heater, what would be the best approach? Step down to 12V, Step up to 24v, separate power supply, ...?

I don't intend to do this shortly, but if I order an E3D kit, it is better to get the 'correct' heater (12/24v) upfront.

 

[zumfab 3]

It should work just fine if you pay attention to the shroud, adjust z home etc.

A very common approach when people started adopting the E3D hotend (at least v5)into UMOs, has been to keep the UM heatblock, incl. heater and thermocouple.. This way, there was less things to rip apart, less risk of damaging heater or thermocouple, you didn't have to drill out the thermistor hole in the e3d block, etc.

Summing up: E3D nozzles fit the UMO heatblock just fine

If you indeed are starting to experiment with exotic filament, I would suggest just going full E3D v6 though

 

At the moment I am just intending to print carbon filled filament for a specific project. It would be nice to be able to print with as many materials as possible though, as that is one of my goals anyway. When it comes to wear and consumables, the full metal E3D v6 hotend looks like the way to go. I hear that it prints well with ABS, but that PLA can be a hassle sometimes.

Anyway, that is all for a later time, as right now I am only going to replace the nozzle with a stainless steel variety to prevent excessive wear. What would be the best way to compensate for those 3,5 mm? Through software or by adjusting the end stop?

 

[tommyph1208 55]

I would say adjust the endstop and level your bed... Done

[zumfab 3]

I would say adjust the endstop and level your bed... Done

 

That was pretty much my idea too I am not sure I have enough travel left on the end stop slots, it looks to be somewhat close, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[neotko 1,417]

I have use e3d nozzles on my umo+ and it works just fine. I did some abs tests (since I got to remove the fan). Anyway until I buy a couple of fans for pla I won't be doing the final change. But they do work just fine without big changes.

[amedee 349]

Got my E3D nozzles -- very small compared to the stock UMO...

(I was planning a quick test on my UMO, but I just remember I still have the old extruder with M8 nozzles...)

 

[itmaxx 1]

After a huge clogging on my UM1 (I decided to swap nozzles with something beefier, to achieve faster print and less nozzle clog.

FOund this 3d, read it, bought some new nozzles from e3d.

But the situatin is not the same as yours. My UM1 nozzle has a female thread and so is VERY different from e3d nozzles.

Any advice on how to mount the e3d 0.6 or 0.8 nozzle to my UM1?

[tommyph1208 55]

After a huge clogging on my UM1 (I decided to swap nozzles with something beefier, to achieve faster print and less nozzle clog.

FOund this 3d, read it, bought some new nozzles from e3d.

But the situatin is not the same as yours. My UM1 nozzle has a female thread and so is VERY different from e3d nozzles.

Any advice on how to mount the e3d 0.6 or 0.8 nozzle to my UM1?

 

What? A female thread? That must be a very old hotend?

So how does your heatblock look? And how do your nozzles connect to it?

Do you have a heatbreak running all the way through the block and into the nozzle or?

[itmaxx 1]

yes, a female m6 thread. I own th UM since feb2012 so it's old but still great.

anyway just fin ished to install the 0.6 E3D nozzle on the original UM, I left 4-5 mm of thread in the heatblock and put the nozzle in.

the peek insulator is at the right place but the threaded tube is left great part outside.

It seems to work great. just one print at 0.3mm - spd60 , fast but good quality. just need to tweak the spd/tmp to obtain a better bridging.

[itmaxx 1]

Starting a new print just now. 0.6 nozzle, 0.3 slice, 65mmsec, 215C.

WOndering if maybe putting 1 or 2 M& nuts between nozzle and heatblock cold improve the heat trasmission toward the nozzle. I will appreciate any advice about it.

By the way, for people like me who need fast test before final print, a 0.6 nozzle works awesome (until now...) the flow could jump from 8-10mm3 to a 24mm3 (using high temp). But working near the low end (11-12 mm3) means reducing the overall underextrusion and achieve good quality print (I reduce speed and increase slicing of course) and pieces seems really solid because having 2 pass for outer shell and top/bottom, means 1.2mm of solid plastic with just two passes.

this is the first test first print with 0.6 E3D nozzle.

sure it need more setp but I like it (btw I left the bot/top at 0.6mm so the slicer put just one pass and the surface is ugly and some hole appears. next print set it at 1.2mm) I like layers, very even, better than my original UM nozzle.

[tommyph1208 55]

E3Ds own assembly instructions specifically state to leave a gap between nozzle "lip" and heatblock, though not nearly as large as yours...

You could look into if you can unscrew the heatbreak some more and get the nozzle a bit deeper... It seems like your heatblock is the same height as the newer ones (or E3Ds for that matter), so there should be plenty of room.

[itmaxx 1]

Thanks for the advice. I use half thread of the heatblock for the hollow threaded tube and other half for the e3d nozzle. I will feel a little on the unsafe side screwing one more than the other, and maybe the connector-heatblock link is the one that carries more weight.

Anyway thanks for the info, I was going to put a M6 nut just to achieve more heat transefer to the nozzle but the last hours experiments told me it works fine this way.

btw the heatblock's height is about 12mm