Why did the filament break?

[ultiarjan 1,223]

 

@SandervG, seems odd you let your customers test the batch.... I'd say block all the stock you have of this batch from shipping and let your supplier check it for you...

[peetersm 124]

So @Peetersm, have you received new reels of filament? And were they better?

Our sincere apologies for the inconvenience and the potential frustration of this bad batch of filaments!

 

Yes ands No.

Yes, I have received new rolls (4 different times now) that's why I've seen 8 rolls total.

No, none of them are better, even the "different batch" rolls I just got.

After my 3rd bad batch I asked if they could send me a different color of UM plastic than the Silver since seem like the silver is showing this issue the most OR a different brand like ColorFabb which is top shelf. The responce was that Silver was the only color they can send and ColorFabb was not a brand they carry. (FYI- this was US support fbrc8 and they have been very fast to respond each time, very helpfull and polite, they are shipping my rolls with return lables so I am not out any money per se just time, sending the defective rolls back each time)

After the 4th bad batch they said they were going to see what they can do. So I'm not sure what the next step is at the moment.

@ultiarjan I agree that they could save shipping costs and time if they used the test I have shown in my video. It is a simple test and works everytime showing the defect in the filament. I'm sure this is a wide spread issue. I would bet that all spools from batchs 150508b04-xxx and 150720a02-xxx and in between are all bad.

[model_dude 1]

Just to follow up, I have been in contact with Imaginables who we bought our printer off and supplied the Ultimaker filament that we have been having issues with. They have heard of this issue with the filament and will be sending us out replacement  spools, so hopefully the next ones will be better. Have to say that so far my experience with Imaginables has all been good

FWIW the batch numbers on the spools for the white filament we were having issues with are:

UM-7003b075 150409b02-113

UM-7003b075 150409b02-114

And the silver filament was:

0021b075 150429a01-013

Edited October 19, 2015 by Guest

[peetersm 124]

FYI - update good and tedious.

good - I'm going to be shipped some UM Blue Filament, I hope this will not show the issues Silver had or the White that @model_dude discovered.

tedious - the ticket is so long now (one month and counting) that I think the support reps are forgetting what the issue is (i've have 3 different reps trying their best to help me so far, and they are great). BUT they keep trying to treat this like a printer issue or environmental/storage, and I'm having to try to re-explain every time that it's simple a bizarre PLA quality issue. Bless their hearts they even did some test prints with the returned PLA that looks good...but that's not the trouble, never was.

Fingers crossed the UM Blue is better quality....

Hey can we start a petition to ask UM to use ColorFabb from now on? :-) Their policy of shopping around for different plastic suppliers seems a little weird anyway if they are trying to establish a brand quality reputation.

[peetersm 124]

I just got a replacement roll of UM Dark Blue, I did the tape test and in only 6 hours it's broken at every tape point.

Grrr!

here's my list now:

SILVER

UM-7021b075 150508b04-11

UM-7021b075 150508b04-12

UM-7021b075 150508b04-6

UM-7021b075 150508b04-9

UM-7021b075 150508b04-317

UM-7021b075 150508b04-324

UM-7021b075 150720a02-240

UM-7021b075 150720a02-254

DARK BLUE

UM-7005b075 1505221b01-9

[peetersm 124]

@sandervg have you heard from fbrc8? This issue is not resolved and I have 3 more spools of defective filament I just got in the 3 new kits I took delivery on.

Below is the last email I had with support on 10-28-15, they asked what they can do to make this right, and here's my brain storming response. I'm curious if you can try to address some of these and maybe share what the conversation has been at HQ about this ongoing wide spread issue.

-----------------------------paste---------------------------------------------------------

thanks for all the help.

I agree sending more UM filament is probably not going to help since this is a very wide spread issue with UM's current filament source. And I'm worried about the 3 new kits I just took delivery on last week, I bet they'll have been stocked with the defective filament too.

I guess I would like UM to acknowledge this issue, and let us know on the forums what is going to be done. SandervGg should help out with this. I think UM should take this up with their supplier at the very least.

I've read on the forums that UM does not have a set supplier for PLA and they switch from time to time based on prices etc. this is no way to give customers a reliable quality. People have mentioned things like colors not matching between spools. For the price they charge this is not acceptable, AND for the reputation of the UM brand name this is not acceptable.

Since this issue effects more than me I would like to know what UM is going to do for everyone who's having this trouble.

I think acceptable resolutions from UM would be:

1. replace with good PLA.

2. offer a refund $41USD to $59USD (the cost of filament not including shipping from you and dynamism)

3. offer a store credit (Preferable from local supplier, I would want fbrc8 store credit or dynamism.com store credit, not store credit in EUR from ultimaker's store)

4. Acknowledge that you can print with this but you'll have a lot or waste PLA and hassle. Possibly a smaller refund/credit amount and a replacement bowden tube and clips which might get too much use from daily dis-assembly.

---------------------------------end paste----------------------------------------------------

ALSO here's a description of what this problem means from an early email with them

---------------------------------paste--------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad to hear you're trying the tape down test, let me know if you find the same results. I developed that test since it easily shows the flaw with this filament. The alternative is to load it into the machine and let is sit over night to see that the filament broke below the extruder and was brittle in the area that it was made to be straight, you would have to heat up the nozzle and try pulling the plastic out... but since it's so brittle now around the area that it was straightened it often would break off inside the bowden tube and I would have to remove one or both ends of the bowden tube (either extruder or hot end or both) to remove the plastic and re-load the machine. Do that a few days in a row and you'll see why I choose the tape down test since it reveals the same issues with out all that dis-assembly and hassle.

(...) if no resolution is available(...)

I thinking I make sure I never let a print job finish when I am not there to remove the plastic immediately once the job is over, or know that if I'm not gong to be there that I'll need to go through the removal process and waste a 2-3ft of filament each time.

-------------------end paste---------------------------------------------------------------------

so far this is the list including the addition of 3 new printer kits I was shipped I have 3 more spools to add to this list of defective UM PLA

SILVER

UM-7021b075 150508b04-11

UM-7021b075 150508b04-12

UM-7021b075 150508b04-6

UM-7021b075 150508b04-9

UM-7021b075 150508b04-317

UM-7021b075 150508b04-324

UM-7021b075 150720a02-240

UM-7021b075 150720a02-254

UM7021-1168-1537

UM7021-1168-1524

UM7021-1168-1491

DARK BLUE

UM-7005b075 1505221b01-9

[SandervG 1,521]

Thank you for your post, allow me to get back with you on this!

[peetersm 124]

Thank you for your post, allow me to get back with you on this!

 

thanks, apparently my last email to them which included the brainstorming ideas was lost in cyberspace. But they have let me know that I need to take this up with Dynamism (the reseller I bought the kits from). anyway I'll wait to hear from you before doing anything else.

I appreciate the help.

[peetersm 124]

 

@sandervg any word from HQ yet?

[SandervG 1,521]

I have a moment scheduled today to discuss it, so if I could ask for a little bit more of your patience I will probably have a reply for you

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @Peetersm, thank you for your patience

You had quite a lengthy post so I hope I'll address all of your points.

First of all, what should be clear is that we are working on replacing the bad batches of filament with good filament, like what you're used to. This should be completed in 2 weeks tops. In the meantime we have been busy investigating, with our manufacturer, what was the reason of this dip.

As a compensation for your inconvenience and the filaments you received we would like to replace them with new, proper filaments (and the bowden-tube which may suffered from the maintenance). The quality you originally ordered, and what you are used from us. I'll send you a DM to arrange the details, OK?

And let me know about the kits you have received if you need any assistance in that regard.

Finally I would like to say that we do have 1 supplier, this has not always been the case but we have for some time now. I also know the remarks about difference in colours but as far as I know that is a thing from the past?

Thanks!

[peetersm 124]

wonderful, thanks so much. DM on the way.

Yeah, I don't think I have recently heard about the color issues.

Glad to hear you have a stable supplier now and hopefully color and defective PLA will become a thing of the past. It's important that the rest of UM offerings live up to the great reputation you've built for yourself.

I'm so happy with the UMO+ kits, I tell everyone it's the best printer for the money, it's beautifully engineered and a real work horse day in and day out.

[Automan 0]

Hi !

I finally got my Ultimaker 2 extended with aprox 12 rolls of colorfab fillament on the 27e nowember, started printing with the silver metallic roll that worked fine. Have been using a pla clear for many prints now a day or so with no problems. found out this morning that while me and the ultimaker where sleeping the fillament have broke off just under the feeder... checked the fillament on the roll and it seamed fine and not very breakable, strange but i guess its not that big deal just a little frustrating.

[peetersm 124]

Yeah, frustrating is correct. UM is working with their supplier to fix the issue, hopefully soon they will have the quality control dialed in at their supplier.

ColorFabb is my go to filament of choice.

[Vinh 0]

I tried to heat the reel using microwave oven: power level 2, 5 minutes. The filament becomes very flexible out of the oven. As I did that yesterday night, I do not know of how long it stay unbroken!

I also have hard time to use the filament at the end of the reels. I unroll one on the other roll as I have 2 end of unusable rolls. This way the filament at the end of roll will be rolled to a larger diameter. I put it in the microwave oven at power level 2 for 5 minutes but it seem like it did not hot enough to straighten out properly. Anyways, I intend to left it alone for a few months in order to let the filament having time to its new position then I will try it again. Of course, I will microwave it again before using it. How that sounds?

[gr5 2,167]

This is very interesting @vinh. Do you have an infrared temperature sensor? I'd love to know what temperature you heated the pla to. I'm guessing around 52C.

When you say "the filament becomes very flexible out of the oven", does it stay more flexible for an hour or does the effect only last for a minute? Does it have to be still warm to be flexible?

[JohnK 30]

Can anyone confirm whether the problem of Ultimaker filament breaking has been fixed ?

I want to buy some and am not sure whether to do so yet or not.

Thanks

[SandervG 1,521]

Yes it has (If you take my word.)

[peetersm 124]

yes, I got some of the new stuff and it does not break when left to sit. The new recipe works like normal PLA.

[Eraser 31]

I have a roll of UM Metallic Grey that I ordered from Stemfinity in November 2015 - I only opened it a couple months ago, and I have been having the exact same issue. The filament is crazy brittle - it even breaks winding it back around the spool after removing it from the machine.

SandervG, should I contact Stemfinity for a replacement or does this go through Ultimaker? I can provide a receipt, etc. to show the purchase, and a video of its brittleness if you like.

Thanks!

~Nick.

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi Eraser, storing your filament for almost a year is quite long, and having it opened for a couple of months too. It can definitely influence the usability and quality of your filament. Besides just bad quality filament, there are also other factors that influence your filament and can result to brittle PLA. Could you tell me a little bit on how and where you stored it?

Looking forward hearing from you!

[Eraser 31]

Hi SandervG,

The filament was ordered in November 2015, and arrived early December. It was opened, I estimate in early June 2016. I am really careful about keeping my filament dry. Once opened, the filament was kept in a zip-lock bag with a brick of desiccant pellets that change color to pink when spent. I make sure they stay blue colored, or I dry them, then replace them. I have used probably about 15% of the spool. I print probably 1 or 2 times per week. At the end of the day after a print, I atomic-method to clean the print head, and then I pack the filament away. I never ever leave the spool out over night. Here's a picture of my filament drawer:

What I experience is that the last 30-50 centimeters of the spool is extremely brittle. It breaks sometimes inside the bowden tube when retracting. The Atomic method has been extremely hard to execute - the end of the filament keeps breaking inside the nozzle when I pull out and its really hard to pull out. Last night, I wrapped the retracted filament around the spool and it broke. I had only really connected these pieces together recently, and then did a google search this morning for answers and found this thread - it all makes sense now.

I will note that this is my second spool of Ultimaker Metallic Gray. The previous spool was used over the course of about 10 months and never suffered any issues. In fact, I have never had a spool that was like this.

Thanks for your help,

~Nick.

[SandervG 1,521]

Sounds like you took good care of your filament, obviously it can be that it is a bad batch that we had a while ago. But do note that depending on how you store your filament it can heavily influence its life span.

I would suggest to reach out to the salesman of your filament with this description on how you stored it and see if you can work out a solution.

Feel free to update me on how this is solved.

[Eraser 31]

I have now sent an email to Stemfinity detailing the issue, the manner in which I store filament, and also referring them to this thread. I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks @SandervG

~Nick.

[Eraser 31]

Stemfinity is sending me a replacement spool.

Thanks for your help SandervG.