Alternative nozzles

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi Guys,

Hope you are all doing fine!

Another opportunity has presented itself where you as a user can be of influence again of what we do here at Ultimaker. I am very curious to hear the input you can all provide on the following matter;

As you know the Olsson Block has made its way to our range of products and is now sitting reliably in the Ultimaker 2+ and Ultimaker 2 Extended+.

This means swapping nozzles becomes more accessible for our users, and this does not just mean less down time for maintenance, or even printing more detailed with the 0.25mm nozzle.

It means there is room for alternative nozzles, maybe nozzles that possibly work better with abrasive materials.

Or materials that require higher temperatures, for materials that don't work well with brass, nozzles that are less prone to oozing, handle flexible materials better, you name it!!

Consider popular materials like nylon, carbon fiber, abs, colorFabb's metal-specials, flexible materials and protopasta as a source of inspiration.

So..

My question is; having the option to work with swappable nozzles, what is the type of nozzle you would like to see? What nozzle do you need for your project?

Of course, with (for example) flexible materials there is more to it than just a different shaped nozzle to make it easier to use, but it can contribute. The (internal) shape of a nozzle can be of real influence on how a material behaves during or before it is being extruded.

If you don't have the solution, but only a need.. let me hear it!

I'm curious to see what input you can all give me.

Thanks guys!

Edited February 3, 2016 by Guest

[neotko 1,417]

If you seen Anders Olsson new sexy bling bling nozzles... If not, call him, that's what Ultimaker needs =) The overhangs print so sweet....

Edited February 3, 2016 by Guest

[SandervG 1,521]

We have seen them. But I can imagine, the creative and expert group of people we are, we could even think of other nozzles / applications as well.

If not.. makes our job a whole lot easier

Edited February 3, 2016 by Guest

[Labern 774]

what about some nozzles with similar size to 1mm but with wire-cut crazy shapes like piping tips

At larger layer heights it could give some interesting effects.

This sounds like a fun project. What we need is some nozzle blanks ( solid right to the top of the thread ) that we can experiment with.

Ones that work best for flexi materials is definitely at the top of the list seeing there are some different hard ones available.

[Labern 774]

I used to have one of these when i was young:

So this just got me thinking. what about a nozzle with a hot pin that sticks down that you can use to cut foam.

one with a short spring loaded pin with a rounded end could also be used to engraving wood as long as it doesn't dig in to much.

[neotko 1,417]

I got a msg from @anders-olsson for this post:

 

:-)

More details will be provided when the forum runs on a vbulletin software..

(I am just paying with extreme "nozzle designs")

[avogra 68]

what about some nozzles with similar size to 1mm but with wire-cut crazy shapes like piping tips

At larger layer heights it could give some interesting effects.

This sounds like a fun project. What we need is some nozzle blanks ( solid right to the top of the thread ) that we can experiment with.

Ones that work best for flexi materials is definitely at the top of the list seeing there are some different hard ones available.

 

haha, great

maybe add to that some calligraphy nozzles

[avogra 68]

I recently had an idea that might improve the nozzles in general: I have a soldering station by JBC which has a quite fancy technology. In contrast to conventional soldering irons, the heating and the temperature sensor are part of the exchangable tip. Due to this, they have to heat a very small mass and have immediate feedback, so they have super tight temperature control and can react quickly on changes. there is a YT-video around, where someone dips a 350°C tip into cold water and it only drops by 30°C. At the same time, replacement tips cost ca. 20..30€, so the technology seems to be cheap to manufacture.

This isn't exactly a possible nozzle for the machines out now though :( Just thought, the idea remotely fits the topic

Edited February 4, 2016 by Guest

[SandervG 1,521]

I got a msg from @anders-olsson for this post:

 

:-)

More details will be provided when the forum runs on a vbulletin software..

(I am just paying with extreme "nozzle designs")

 

Anders is not posting himself anymore?

vbulletin is not going to happen, sorry.

Hopefully you or Anders will share more information about this interesting 'add on', and hopefully the endless plea for a vbulletin forum will also come to an end.

I will appreciate it if we could keep this thread on topic, thank you.

[neotko 1,417]

Don't shoot the msg-er !

[Labern 774]

Just looks like a MIG welding tip. I have people use them before as emergency nozzles.

[neotko 1,417]

I have zero mechanics knowledge so bear with me in this idea.

Could a nozzle have a self locking mechanism so when the preassure from the filament being extruder cuts, it blocks out? Ofc that could make a pain in the arse to clean, but since that's a hot area, and most people now use a nozzle for each type of plastic, it could make sense to have a nozzle for each material. And a lock mechanism could stop any drip, open new possibilities for dual, etc. Ofc to make a nozzle like that might need very precise tools to make it? Just brain storming.

[Labern 774]

The CEL Robox has needle valves in their nozzles. I have also seen others try using a floating disc that shuts off when it retracts.

[Anders Olsson 136]

Labern has the answer, these MIG-nozzles happen to fit the Olsson block, I could not resist testing them when I found them at the hardware store

I would not recommend them to anyone though.

There are other nozzles one could try, just scan the market for M6 threaded nozzles with at least 6 mm long threaded part.

Haven't been very active since the forum change, partly because I have been very busy lately, but mostly due to forum related factors.

Since Sander asks about me not being active at the forum:

While I admire Sanders efforts and patience trying to promote this "forum", I simply had to realize that I am not compatible with the concept.

When I have spare time, I end up spending that in other forums, writing PM to people, emailing and such.

Not because I am less active in 3D-printing, I am more active then ever, but because of the software this forum runs on and because the change in the community that came with the forum upgrade.

This thread is just one of the threads lately that clearly shows the problem. Most of the developer/inventor-community that existed on the old forum is gone and there are no new members in that category joining, sadly but not surprisingly.

One would be a fool to blame anything else than the forum upgrade for that.

The post counter mysteriously stopped working properly last time I posted something (which was related to the popularity of the forum) by the way. You might want to check that, Sander, it counts far less than true number of posts right now.

And make sure Ultimaker RD does not loose the prototype nozzles this time, like they did with the first prototype of the Olsson block..

And tell them not to over-tighten them, they are prototypes and will break at 1 Nm, the last ones I made are stronger.

I'll be back when the forum is upgraded to vbulletin

[Labern 774]

So I was thinking. (yes it hurt) That most materials apart from PLA have layer adhesion issues. Although the properties of the actual material can be a lot better then PLA, the layer adhesion makes it worse off once printed. So how do we improve on this to get structurally stronger parts.

One brain fart i had is that the current nozzles we use extrude a bead of plastic that has a flat top and bottom. This gives a fairly small surface area of which the next layer being put on top can stick to. But what if we could extrude a corrugated surface, increasing the surface area in which the next layer of plastic can stick to. which therefore may increase the layer strength??

Not sure how this could be done without having to rotate the nozzle in the direction of travel but could be an interesting test.

[Labern 774]

This may not be what your after with this topic but I got a 0.8mm nozzle and inserted a needle into in down from the top and tried cutting some foam. As the needle was stainless the heat transfer was pretty bad and it only got hot enough to cut the foam close to the nozzle. but it still was able to cut it. If the whole thing was made of brass it could possibly work. Then you could make nice foam inserts for things like GUNS or something.

[SandervG 1,521]

@Labern, I understand your train of thought. I would think filament is being extruded in a liquified shape, and being 'squished' on the previous layer. It would probably flatten it and ensure a 'good' layer adhesion. With a flat nozzle hole, I think it will show things like with calligraphy where you can not have dimensionally accuracy. (unless, you can rotate the nozzle, but that sounds very complex )

@Neotko, brainstorming is good! Whatever idea you have, shoot it my way!

Unless it involves a certain different forum platform, I have plenty of those suggestions already

The problem with blocking of a nozzle, is that you 'force' it to stay inside. Inside a hot nozzle. So that would probably always lead to clogged nozzles, unless you have something to cool down the nozzle 'immediately'.

Any ideas how a nozzle could improve printing with flexible materials?

@Labern, nice idea by the way with the different shaped nozzles.

How would this affect layer adhesion?

About the needle, cool! Just like your other hot pin idea.

It adds different functionalities to the machine next to 3D printing.

How could we make 3D printing more versatile?

[avogra 68]

Or what about that: a closed nozzle in the shape of a sphere or flat with rounded contour. you would use that after a print has finished to go over the top again, slightly remelting your print to getting a perfectly flat surface.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Guest

[avogra 68]

hmm, the post before my last one has vanished

it was:

does it make any sense to have a nozzle that isn't rigid or at least has a flexible tip.

[Labern 774]

Just some added info to compare nozzle temp differences.

Yes my heater block PT100 is not accurate but the test still shows the thermal differences between the different nozzle types.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[SandervG 1,521]

Thanks for the info and the chart!

Perhaps you can explain something to me; how does the material affect the temperature?

I can imagine different materials can increase or reduce the time it takes to reach a certain temperature, but once it has been reached, doesn't it come down to PID settings to keep it at that temperature?

Maybe once the fans turn on, there could be a small drop and it may take a little longer to get back on track but I guess then it depends when you made these measurements. Right?

[peggyb 170]

I think this is a new idea of using 2 printheads: https://markforged.com/mark-two/

the first head is used as a normal fdm print, printing a base structure (in nylon) and leaving some open space for the next printhead: carbon fiber, fiber glass or kevlar. But this second printhead doesn't change the size of the filament, it uses the real diameter and just melts this one into the open spaces. This way the strong characteristics of carbon fiber keep their shape, the fibers are not 'chopped'.

The machine itself is a beauty, magnetic build plates, good design, machined components, looking real yammy.....

[Labern 774]

Thanks for the info and the chart!

Perhaps you can explain something to me; how does the material affect the temperature?

I can imagine different materials can increase or reduce the time it takes to reach a certain temperature, but once it has been reached, doesn't it come down to PID settings to keep it at that temperature?

Maybe once the fans turn on, there could be a small drop and it may take a little longer to get back on track but I guess then it depends when you made these measurements. Right?

 

The heater and temp sensor are both in the heater block. The temp sensor is measuring the block and relaying the information so the heater applies enough heat to keep it at that temp.

But the screw in nozzle protrudes out of that block and as different materials have different thermal heat transfer properties the actual temp inside the end of the nozzle can be completely different to what the temp sensor is reading in the heater block.

[SandervG 1,521]

ah yea I understand. So I was kinda in the right area, except I overlooked the fact the measurement tool was in the heaterblock instead of the nozzle instead.

Makes sense.

[lance-greene 7]

a volcano style heater block would be pretty sweet, with even bigger nozzles just like E3D. I've done 800 micron layer heights with the 0.8mm nozzle but had to print at 20mm a second, which is way to slow

Edited August 17, 2016 by Guest