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Hand cranked geared heart troubles.


Titus
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Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

Dear community,

It's been a while I opened a new topic, I've slipped in questions in other topics etc, but with the troubles this print is giving me I thought it might be good for a topic/blog kinda thing. Questions or notes will be introduced by a '-'

Model: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:253934

Based on: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:243278

I'm printing it at .75 scale, because I was short on red, though I might have to buy new red anyway.

Basic settings I'm using:

settings.PNG.360477fa0a72f056140fca3de7dd8250.PNG

0.1mm layer height for details

1.2mm top/bot thickness to make sure the top is nicely closed

0.8mm shell for 0.4mm nozzle

50mm/s Speed, slower than I usually print at 80

215C nozzle temperature for ColorFabb Red/blueish grey PLA

55C Heated bed temperature for bed adhesion

So far I've printed the white parts from this picture. Note, this is NOT my print but the picture from Thingiverse: photo_preview_featured.jpg

The base without trouble, the gears without trouble too.

-The axle however didn't fit in the holes. So I had to print it at .65 scale or something in order for it to actually fit. This is a reoccurring problem with prints that have to be assembled. I just can't print them so it fits. Many people suggested to create the parts with extra margin etc. But since I didn't create this model and many other people seem successfully printing it, I can't help but think the problem is at my end. I had the bottom layer set to 0.3mm still by accident. I made that 0.2mm, but yeah.

-When printing the heart base I used the pause on height trick to swap filament, which I learned during the Print Challenges. Super happy with that!!!! However during the red print I noticed a lot of blobbing as can be seen in this image(was also posted in latest print). It seems z hop on retraction was causing it. I've set that to 0 now.

IMG_20160207_005625.thumb.jpg.4bde5574cee38b41bcd93138c36ab5d1.jpg

- Now I've started the heart itself. I didn't dare to print all parts at once, mainly due to the lack of sufficient red pla. But that is also a reoccurring theme. I want to be able to fill up the bed and just print! But somehow I believe that messes up prints, and print 1 part at a time. Will investigate and try later. But do you guys print 1 part at a time, and start a new part manually each time, or just fill up the bed?

-I don't know why, but it seems like I'm getting high under extrusion on this part. I tried it separate, and now with another part at the same time. Or it might be something else, I just don't know. Temperature should be high enough, filament is not grinding. The print is retraction heavy as can be seen in cura/heard.

Retraction settings are 4.5mm at 45mm/s

IMG_20160209_134413.thumb.jpg.740dd125fd32f61f7b65c53f1af5d281.jpg

IMG_20160209_134424.thumb.jpg.ccec4eca87fd1ca73363a4ddbb35362a.jpg

I really don't know what is going on here, or why I just can't get it to work. The only thing I can think of is:

-The model(retractions)

-The material

I'll try to print one of these parts in white tonight, but I'm just clueless.

settings.PNG.360477fa0a72f056140fca3de7dd8250.PNG

IMG_20160207_005625.thumb.jpg.4bde5574cee38b41bcd93138c36ab5d1.jpg

IMG_20160209_134413.thumb.jpg.740dd125fd32f61f7b65c53f1af5d281.jpg

IMG_20160209_134424.thumb.jpg.ccec4eca87fd1ca73363a4ddbb35362a.jpg

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    Posted (edited) · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    retractions shouldnt be an issue, smaller stuff is harder due to heat being more of the problem, also id have either 100 % or zero infill as weird denominations on tiny stuff can damage the surface due to the walls still being affected by movement of the nozzle.

    and yes don't print loads of different shaped stuff at once unless you dont mind seeing layer lines due to mismatched cooling times per layer.

    Colourfabb red is fine, i swear by traffic red i highly recommend printing like 4 at a time, 2 may not give enough time to cool.

    Not sure if my settings will work given that each machine may read temps differently but i use...

    temp 185 layer height .06 speed 30. all walls 1.2. and fans on full from the very start. tats it everything else default on cura 15.04.2.

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    @cloakfiend, thanks for replying, I will try the 0 % infill, but with a higher top thickness, otherwise I'm afraid it won't close nicely.

    I'll also try to print more than two at once. And even slower and lower temperature.

    Here are the pictures from the finished print of today. I still notice blobbing, and also strange shapes in the wall:

    IMG_20160209_185438.thumb.jpg.e406521d6b643177dc893ba9d3c0c26b.jpg

    IMG_20160209_185658.thumb.jpg.5349a03363f59d6270e6a84770e25984.jpg

    IMG_20160209_185438.thumb.jpg.e406521d6b643177dc893ba9d3c0c26b.jpg

    IMG_20160209_185658.thumb.jpg.5349a03363f59d6270e6a84770e25984.jpg

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    Posted (edited) · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Have you ever adjusted th aceleration of the machine? Because on my prints with low aceleration on small areas I got blobs and weird top layer quality.

    I also avoid blops using coasting on s3d (cura beta has that) and wipe while retracting (s3d).

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted (edited) · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    I don't think you have underextrusion - at least not in the last 2 photos.  Instead you are having troubles with overhangs.  Colorfabb is less viscous - try much cooler - maybe 190C.  Is the fan at 100%?  You want it at 100% quite quickly as the overhang starts on the second layer.  Also print even slower - try 35mm/sec.

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    So I printed the same parts, now with 0% infill, 190C, and 35mm/s, fan at 100%

    The top layers are a little bit nicer, less blobbing(probably due to lower temp), but I still get some strange wall structure, or overhang trouble.

    IMG_20160210_163547.thumb.jpg.0ef56fd6079af500e90c8cb8543b0fdc.jpg

    IMG_20160210_163603.thumb.jpg.cfa750d17fdbe9720a7644fcd8bd7170.jpg

    IMG_20160210_163547.thumb.jpg.0ef56fd6079af500e90c8cb8543b0fdc.jpg

    IMG_20160210_163603.thumb.jpg.cfa750d17fdbe9720a7644fcd8bd7170.jpg

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Overextrusion might help you, im having a lot of luck with that recently. Dial in a 0.6 nozzle for a 0.4 one and see how that goes?

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    Posted (edited) · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Hi @Titus, I downloaded the file and had a go.

    5a331841da3b0_geearexampleprint50pc.thumb.jpg.9d4df9d462f2b0406abc5c0148d47e69.jpg

    The LHS image was my first go. It is by no means perfect but I think it is better than yours. I used your settings except for

    layer height - 150mm to speed up print

    print speed - 20mm/s

    extruder temp - 180c; although if I did it again I would use 185c

    infill 26%

    bed temp 65c

    100% fan

    ColorFab blue grey filament

    For the RHS print, which is just about perfect, I changed my settings as follows

    Walls - 1.6mm

    Infill - 40%

    Print speed 30 mm/s

    Extruder temp 190c

    Faberdashery Robot Silver

    Also as the overhang changes from leaning to the left (on the lhs of the model!!), to leaning to the right, after say 10 layers I noticed a couple of artefacts and reduced the print speed to 20 mm/s which stopped that. I left the extruder temp at 190 after the speed change because I forgot to reduce it!

    5a331841da3b0_geearexampleprint50pc.thumb.jpg.9d4df9d462f2b0406abc5c0148d47e69.jpg

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Maybe the problem could be related to cpu speed? This reminds me of something gr5 pointed out about the cpu limit

     

    Don't set the value too high in you cad software - if the line segments are say 5 per mm it will drastically slow down your print because of how Marlin (the firmware) works.

    Marlin can only read 12 moves ahead and doesn't know if a sharp turn (e.g. corner of square) is coming up on the 13th move so it has to be ready to stop 12 moves ahead and if all 12 moves are in the next 3mm it needs to print VERY slow.  It will cause bad quality.

     

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Lol that is beyond my capability. I made two deliberate changes for the 2nd print. Firstly I increased the infill% to reduce retraction frequency. Secondly I thickened the wall in case the infill overlap was impacting on the surface. Unfortunately I also changed filament, making the understanding of what made the improvement less obvious.

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

     

    @Yellowshark, Thanks for the detailed write up. Are you running on an UMO or UM2? Also I was wondering, could it be because I down scaled the model to 0.75?

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Funny you should say that, it was a thought that went through my head when I first read the post. But it is a solid model so you can set your wall width as you desire, so I do not think it would affect it. But re-scaling is something I rarely do so I do not consider myself that knowledgeable on the subject.

    I am running Cura but not on a UM printer but apart from extruder temp., which might need adjusting, there is no reason why you should not try my settings and see if you get close. I use all the standard retraction settings in Cura 15.04.2

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    That looks like a really really nice print! I dont even think i could get my um2 to produce something that sharp and clean.

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    I have seen some great prints from the UM although I have not actually seen a UM2. I think one of the strengths the 3ntr has is that its drive system has no plastic parts (of course except for the Bowden tube), comprising CNC alloys through to the extruder/nozzle, which I am not sure whether they are machined in-house or brought in from a third party.

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Looks like a good printer, i dont care for aesthetics of machines as long as they do what they are told and can be maintained by me. Is is a quiet machine?

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    I would not say it is overly quite, there is no technical data on decibel measurement. I can work beside it quite easily without "hearing" it. Sometimes I sit in the room listening to my hi-fi whilst the printer is printing. If I have the amp turned up the printer does not intrude; if the amp is at more average values then I can hear the printer but I can mentally shut it out.

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    Posted (edited) · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Ok, it's been a long time since I updated the thread. I postponed this print until I did a nozzle upgrade(@anders-olsson rocks!) and a dual fan upgrade(@neotko rocks too!). Remember what it used to be?

    IMG_20160207_005625.thumb.jpg.4bde5574cee38b41bcd93138c36ab5d1.jpg

    Check out the comparison, right is the post processed old piece, left is the unprocessed new piece :D

    IMG_20160521_131526.thumb.jpg.60d8236779f157acbf594a56f6d5fac3.jpg

    And the final product:

    IMG_20160522_160030.thumb.jpg.21cf27bf1865e6e79d79294ce42ce7ec.jpg

    I designed a little knob to fit over the crank, as the downscaled heart didn't like the small crank as much.

    IMG_20160207_005625.thumb.jpg.4bde5574cee38b41bcd93138c36ab5d1.jpg

    IMG_20160521_131526.thumb.jpg.60d8236779f157acbf594a56f6d5fac3.jpg

    IMG_20160522_160030.thumb.jpg.21cf27bf1865e6e79d79294ce42ce7ec.jpg

    Edited by Guest
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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Wow that looks sharp! What do you think the difference is? The dual fan or nozzle?

    Did you just install a new nozzle or something special?

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    I think it is both. For example on this comparison I believe the nozzle is responsible for better surface quality.

    IMG_20160521_131526.thumb.jpg.60d8236779f157acbf594a56f6d5fac3.jpgYou can also see it in this example:

    Left=original

    Middle= just nozzle upgrade

    Right=nozzle+dual fan upgrade

    IMG_20160513_124648.thumb.jpg.6ca3c48ce2c48817e39811f9b0491316.jpg

    However if you look at the overhangs of the old pictures I believe the dual fan took care of that:

    IMG_20160210_163547.thumb.jpg.0ef56fd6079af500e90c8cb8543b0fdc.jpg

    IMG_20160521_131526.thumb.jpg.60d8236779f157acbf594a56f6d5fac3.jpg

    IMG_20160513_124648.thumb.jpg.6ca3c48ce2c48817e39811f9b0491316.jpg

    IMG_20160210_163547.thumb.jpg.0ef56fd6079af500e90c8cb8543b0fdc.jpg

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Do you have any means to measure if your old nozzle was still 0.4 or could it be it got wider or the shoulders were almost completely shaved off?

    Congrats on your new Ultimaker Original! :D

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    I believe the actual old nozzle was a bit worn, so I swapped for a new one at the time, without result, if I remember correctly.

    Final settings:

    0.1mm layer height for details

    1.2mm top/bot thickness to make sure the top is nicely closed

    0.8mm shell for 0.4mm nozzle

    20% infill as usual

    45mm/s Speed,

    205C nozzle temperature

    60C Heated bed temperature for bed adhesion

    45mm/s retraction speed

    5.5 mm retraction

    initial layer 0.2mm

    250mm/s travel speed

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    Just leaving this here as I hadn't done so:

    https://vid.me/eDTF

    https://vid.me/WdwR

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    Posted · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    That is very cool! Did you use a lubricant to reduce any friction?

    There is also a motorized version, I bet I could watch that all day while it slowly rotates. Such a cool design!

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    Posted (edited) · Hand cranked geared heart troubles.

    I added some sewing oil, but it didn;t seem to change a lot.

    I know about the motorized version, but this one seemed more appropriate as a gift.

    Edited by Guest
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