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Sevione

Filament not sticking anymore. Possible bed warping?

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Hey everyone,

I recently moved my printer to another room. I printed something I've printed a dozen times before and it printed perfect. Then I went to print something else I've printed over a dozen times before and now I've run into issues of my prints no longer sticking to the bed properly.

 

The problem: When the filament is being laid down, it's almost like it's just hovering above the air in some places, almost like it's too far from the print bed. This is when I move the print bed closer to the nozzle but then I start running into problems where it's almost like it's too close and therefore doesn't extrude much filament at all. Also, in some places the filament gets laid down, as seen in the photos below, the second that the nozzle turns away the filament flicks up instantly.

 

This is what I've done:

- Re-leveled the bed using the walkthrough a thousand times

- Re-leveled while printing (or at least tried to)

- Cleaned out the feeder in case it was grinding residue causing problems and re-greased the wheel thingy inside the feeder

- Did the atomic pull a dozen times

- Used different filament colours and tried printing other files - same problem.

- Rotated and flipped the glass bed

- Cleaned it as per usual with isopropyl alcohol and a microfibre cloth

 

I've been trying to fix this for 8 hours now and I'm tearing my hair out over it as I have orders to print for customers and I just do not know where to go from here. I've been watching the nozzle carefully and in some places I can see it slowly dip down towards the bed, then move back up again. I've also noticed that the nozzle appears to get too close to the bed (or possibly even too far from the bed) right about the center of the glass plate.

IMG_6074.thumb.jpg.cf805c2d8697c8ef888e2e713830bf5e.jpgIMG_6068.thumb.jpg.ad53ad57c34f3649de25a26a0ce8164d.jpgIMG_6069.thumb.jpg.6772d2da2b07bc8b23eb903d11633adc.jpg IMG_6073.thumb.jpg.bdd320165f8208d4411f18a3e4bbc1db.jpg

In regards to settings. I always print at 210c, PLA with a 60c bed. I've printed these files a dozen times over with no problems, the only thing that has changed is me moving my printer to another room so I know it's not my print settings.

 

I was even so desperate as to lay down tape for the first time ever just to see how it printed and you can clearly see where the filament isn't being laid down properly (in the middle of the print bed).

IMG_6065.thumb.jpg.d2df30d44dee538663f3b2bc43b4b1cb.jpgIMG_6063.thumb.jpg.9e5b7066fdc58a88c669ebd69ee72ba2.jpgIMG_6064.thumb.jpg.a8cc0a7e9ebe8b86571404dd77bd3a09.jpg

 

When I did believe that I had it leveled (the brim had done a few rounds without lifting up) I left it alone for a couple hours and came back to this warping of the brim. In my tests, I watched it print a few brim lines and the more lines it printed, the more it started to lift up as soon as the filament was laid down.

IMG_6071.thumb.jpg.172e49d72bd92d1c3f2bc10db0ba5cf3.jpg

You can see some brim warping on this failed print. I didn't think to take photos of it, but the brim had clearly lifted in numerous places. There was also some parts of the print that weren't touching the build plate properly which shows to me that the build plate either isn't leveled properly or it's warped in the middle.

IMG_6070.thumb.jpg.7c68ab679c9463c4a451ab0e32929f65.jpg

 

So I am completely stuck and don't know what to do. I've spent far too much time doing the same solutions over and over again and coming to no conclusion. I've never had this much trouble before trying to get the bed level (in fact the last time I had a similar issue it only took one try to re-level and it worked perfect ever since).

Part of me thinks the glass plate is actually warped and that I'll need to replace it. But first I thought I'd ask for help here before shelling out the $80 to do so.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm not going to touch the printer now and leave it as is (as seen in the photos) to follow any tips you guys give me.

Regards,
Sevione.

Edited by Sevione

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Update: Hope I don't get in trouble for a double post but I am unable to edit my original post. I'm about to go to work then I'll be in bed so thought I'd add this now. As I was trawling through these forums some more I found a post by gr5 who linked to a video below and this is what I did after watching.
 

1. Followed his bed leveling procedure by having the nozzle one click above the build plate. Not using paper and doing the "tap" and hearing a "clink" for the other two screws.

2. Started my print again and obviously the nozzle was far too close to the plate and producing pretty much transparent lines so I quickly turned all three knobs CCW a little bit (unsure how much but was probably like 1/4 or less) and these are the results after two "rounds" of brim. The corner turning part at the top now seems to be sticking better instead of lifting straight away.

IMG_6078.thumb.jpg.b4aadb3c032206b2ac6b555b64643380.jpg

 

3. Restarted the print and got these results which is a little better than before. I still have that lifting on top left that I am unsure how to fix without ruining all my other leveling.
IMG_6080_(1).thumb.jpg.5b83b0e6a619a0c603cd2c6bed54a6ff.jpg


4. Restarted again and turned all 3 knobs a little more CCW and let it print a bit. As you can see it looks like the first few initial brim "rounds" printed okay (and I use okay loosely). It's clear as day in these photos that the brim is lifting up all over the place. I assume the "gouges" in the brim was due to the nozzle being too close. In the third photo at the bottom you can clearly see some more translucent looking filament so I knew it was too close to the nozzle, especially in that area.

IMG_6081.thumb.jpg.66a4604b8f906979825ee234f3262a5a.jpgIMG_6083.thumb.jpg.59cc2557386a7dfa7d1ac1154f5711f5.jpgIMG_6082.thumb.jpg.9c7c6203b2d9179133deee45b029ca17.jpg

 

5. Once again, turned all 3 knobs a little more CCW and let it print a little and the brim is still lifting considerably.

IMG_6087.thumb.jpg.2c259a020f4fcd4b2f512a997f1c23dd.jpgIMG_6086.thumb.jpg.45bc9667c7931105e755c4e38b14fc63.jpgIMG_6085.thumb.jpg.5438581745331dc8519986b25aa95338.jpgIMG_6088.thumb.jpg.062b4fa87e639db41b0b228f9b8acfde.jpg

 

6. Desperation has kicked in and I've put in a brand new roll of filament. Can anyone tell me what causes this little curling/flicking up in the left photo for future reference. I left it for a bit and then this happened. Oops.
IMG_6090.thumb.jpg.05611a94dcc3c8886f37bc04f0f69a75.jpgIMG_6091.thumb.jpg.ec5df83c607361d54cabeb350ee638cb.jpg

 

7. Finished watching the video below and decided to take my glass plate into the sink. Gave it a wash with some detergent and dried with some paper towel. Put it back onto my printer whilst using a microfibre cloth to reduce chances of skin oils getting onto it. This is where I am at. It appears the only place the brim is lifting is where I taped it down. I'm unsure as to when this occurred as I left it alone for a bit. 

IMG_6094.thumb.jpg.ae06c4ac5470fc80107b53bfa9b49fc3.jpg

For future reference, am I correct with the first layer problems and their solutions below (I probably sound like a broken record)

Rippling/small tidal waves - nozzle is slightly too close. Turn the screws CCW a smidge
Large ripples/tidal waves - nozzle is far too close. Turn the screws CCW 1/4 turn* depends on your own circumstances

Gouges/tears/rips in the layer - nozzle is too close. Turn the screws CCW

Filament appears to be extruding in the air  and not touching the build plate (almost like it is bridging) - Nozzle is too far from the build plate. Turn the screws CW

Filament is flicking/curling at the edges, especially when the nozzle changes direction - ????? what's the easiest solution

Translucent first layer - nozzle is too close. Turn screws CCW

Ok so I have another question. I figured I might as well post it here. Just say we split the build plate up into imaginary quads. Let's say there is some kind of issue with the filament (for this example the filament just won't stick properly) in the top left quadrant. What is the right way of going about fixing the leveling without ruining the rest of the build plate leveling (if it appears ok?). Let's assume the build plate is clean and the re-leveling is just part of the troubleshooting. I have trouble trying to find some kind of information or graphic that might show what screws to adjust for certain parts of the build plate. I hope this makes sense. Should we:
a: Adjust the back screw
b: Adjust the left screw

c: Adjust the back and left screw

d: Adjust all screws at the same time

e: Other

Thanks for any help guys. I'm off to work and then bed. Will update in the morning how I went.

 

This was the video I followed for some more help.


 

IMG_6077.jpg

IMG_6091.jpg

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To me it looks like in most photos the build plate is way too far from the nozzle, and the first layer is way too thick. I print my first layer at 0.2mm, and it is way thinner. Usually the underside of my prints looks like this, almost like a mirror. The camera often does not want to focus of the bottom surface, but focusses on the reflections mirrored in it instead. In the top photo the mirrored image is out of focus, in reality it appears much shinier. In the bottom photo the camera focussed on the reflections, here the cover of a desktop fan, instead of the bottom layer. But in real life we see both together.

 

underside_mirror.thumb.jpg.d9e8c12251778b0a33338a0eac202c6f.jpg

 

In your post I didn't see which bonding method you used, if any? If you would just print on bare glass, without any bonding, this might work very well in dry weather, but might completely fail in moist weather. At least, that is my experience.

 

Also, bonding might completely fail after cleaning the glass with soap, with dish washer, solvents, etc. Soap reduces bonding, and solvents might contain traces of oils. So I clean the glass with pure warm tap water only.

 

For bonding you could try gr5's method (10% white wood glue in water), neotko's method (hair spray), 3DLAC, the gluestick (maybe wipe with wet tissue afterwards), or my salt method (wipe the glass with a tissue moistened with salt water, see here: https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/geert-keteleer/manuals/ ).

 

 

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Everything including the first layer is printed in 0.2mm layer height and nothing else. The nozzle being too far form the build plate is something I can work with - in my most recent photos, where do you think this is occurring? Is this what happened where I taped the corner of my print? Should I turn all three screws CW a little more? 

 

I dont use any bonding method. I live in a humid place (70%+ everyday) since January and haven’t had this problem before and just use the heated bed. 

I don’t like to use any kind of glue or anything because I find that it makes the bonding even worse. If this problem gets worse I may have to try the glue stick method again that I saw that in gr5s video. 

 

Any tips on the leveling side? 

thanks

 

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5 hours ago, Sevione said:

For future reference, am I correct with the first layer problems and their solutions below (I probably sound like a broken record)

Rippling/small tidal waves - nozzle is slightly too close. Turn the screws CCW a smidge
Large ripples/tidal waves - nozzle is far too close. Turn the screws CCW 1/4 turn* depends on your own circumstances

Gouges/tears/rips in the layer - nozzle is too close. Turn the screws CCW

Filament appears to be extruding in the air  and not touching the build plate (almost like it is bridging) - Nozzle is too far from the build plate. Turn the screws CW

Filament is flicking/curling at the edges, especially when the nozzle changes direction - ????? what's the easiest solution

Translucent first layer - nozzle is too close. Turn screws CCW

Yes.  Perfect.  Except the CW and CCW are as seen from above.  I always think of it as seen from below.  I always think of CW as tightening a screw so for me I would reverse all those CW and CCW but I think your understanding is perfect here.

 

The very first picture in the second post is a perfect example of nozzle too far.  And it's right next to the rear screw so I would only turn that scew.

 

You really need to use some glue.  The yellow tape idea is fine but then you need to remove the wax - use isopropyl alcohol on that yellow painter's tape and that will work fine but glass with glue is better.

 

The glue stick by itself gives you a very thick layer of glue.  Basically the thinner the layer of glue the better the bonding.  I don't know why.  Obviously, at some point it's so thin it doesn't exist.  Glue stick spread with wet paper towel works great.

 

There may indeed be oils in soap which is why I always wash the glass a second time with glass cleaner.  I should have mentioned about possible oils in soap in the video :(

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6 minutes ago, gr5 said:

Yes.  Perfect.  Except the CW and CCW are as seen from above.  I always think of it as seen from below.  I always think of CW as tightening a screw so for me I would reverse all those CW and CCW but I think your understanding is perfect here.

 

The very first picture in the second post is a perfect example of nozzle too far.  And it's right next to the rear screw so I would only turn that scew.

 

You really need to use some glue.  The yellow tape idea is fine but then you need to remove the wax - use isopropyl alcohol on that yellow painter's tape and that will work fine but glass with glue is better.

 

Yeah my CW and CCW terms come from if you were to look straight down at the build plate.
Thank you for the analysis of my picture. It's good to know that it was due to the nozzle being too far so that is something I can look out for.

Funny enough my print seems to be going okay for now and actually sticking since I washed it in the sink with detergent, besides the brim lifting in the photo  below where I taped it down a little. What would cause the lifting of the brim in that area? Is the nozzle too far from the build plate and not causing it to stick/squish properly? Is the nozzle distance fine but I just need better adhesion (like glue)?
IMG_6094.thumb.jpg.e602fea12db307b687cc3065e2ee06dd.jpg

 

In regards to the glue stick, do you need to do the whole process for every print or will it last a few prints before it needs to be redone?

 

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If you don't like using glue, because it is sometimes difficult to get the model off, or because you need to take the glass out of the printer for best results, then you might try the "salt method" first?

 

In short: after cleaning, wipe the glass with a tissue moistened with salt water. (See link in my previous post for full manual.) For me this works great with PLA (Ultimaker) and PLA/PHA (colorFabb). It gives good bonding when the glass is hot (60°C), but no bonding at all when at room temp (20...25°C). So you can just take the models off, without any force, and without need to remove the glass from the printer. Then wipe again with a tissue, and you are ready for the next print. For me, the ease of applying the method without taking the glass out, the good bonding, and the ease of removing the models, are the main reasons for using this method.

 

For some other brands of PLA this method works less good (although still better than nothing at all); and it does not work for ABS, PET, etc. So you will have to experiment for your materials and your circumstances. Stay around when printing the first objects, so see how well it works (or not) for you.

 

It may be best to start with a small but difficult to print test model, with various bonding methods, and choose a method that works well and that you like. There is no perfect method for everything and everyone. And personal taste also plays an important role, nothing wrong with that.

 

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