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SandervG

Owens Corning XSTRAND™

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Perhaps you already heard about the material alliance we are forming with several large material manufacturers, and I'm happy to tell you that it is starting to show off! 

 

XSTRAND is a high end 3D printing material, it's designed for functional prototyping, manufacturing aids, tooling and other industrial applications. It has stiff mechanical and thermal properties because it has a 30% glass-fiber reinforcement. 

Because of that, it is incredibly strong and has a rougher/textured surface. 

 

It is also highly abrasive. Because of that, it is only compatible with the new CC Print core Red (0.6 mm) and Ultimaker S5, because it has an abrasive feeder. 

 

If you have any questions about this material, feel free to ask us below! 

 

SDS-XSTRAND™ 3D GF30-PA6.pdf

TDS-XSTRAND™-3D-GF30-PA6-.pdf

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Sounds great! Could you clarify the bit about the S5 feeder? Do you mean that the S5 has hardened feeder driving wheels, and the UM3 doesn't have them?

 

Another question - how dimensionally accurate will the prints using those profiles be? Will they suffer from the same problems as, for example, the default UM Nylon profile (very inaccurate inner hole diameters)? This is very important IMHO, as those materials are specifically targeted towards engineering applications.

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Hi @P3D,

 

thank you for your questions! I was out at the TCT show myself, hence my late response.

Yes that is what I mean. The Ultimaker 3's feeder is not equipped to handle abrasive materials, the teeth will (quickly) wear off. How fast, depends on the material you decide to use. The Ultimaker S5 feeder (in particular the knurled sleeve) on the other hand is made of a hardened material and is also coated to make it even stronger. 

 

The dimensional accuracy is a synergy of the print profile used (like speed and temperature), the material (like shrinkage) and the printer itself (calibration). So it is hard to say by leaving two of the 3 influencers out of the equation how accurate it will be. I believe the added glass fibers make it less prone to shrinkage, which should make it more dimensionally accurate. I'll see if I can report back with something to make it more tangible. 

 

Let me know if you have any other questions ?

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Hi @SandervG, thank you for the feedback!

 

I am aware that these parameters all influence accuracy, however the material shrinkage would be something that, given a reasonably controlled manufacturing process and proper filament storage/handling, should remain essentially constant, which means that it could be most probably compensated for in a material profile.

 

As the new materials you are introducing are most useful for engineering applications (not much sense in printing a figurine with a fiberglass filled filament), I think it would be good to really put a focus on print accuracy.

 

One idea would be to provide two profile sets - a "fast/draft" option with fast printing speed, and a "engineering" option that provides maximum dimensional accuracy (not only outer dimensions, but also inner holes etc.)

 

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Another thing I wanted to add, was that it is also recommended to store XSTRAND dry and cool and potentially dry it before use. 

 

I like your idea about a dedicated print profile. Something like that has also been discussed a couple of times already, currently such a profile doesn't exist yet but it is definitely on the radar. I will let you know more when more information is available about this!

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Thanks for the information Sander, this opens the door to this question that most UM3 owners will have I would htink: will the new CC core work on a UM3(+) and will the S5 feeder be made available as an upgrade for the UM3+)?

 

I for one I am very interested in using composite materials, but I cannot justify upgrading my entire UM3 for a S5 just to be able to print composites every now and again (I do have a need for that from time to time though...)

 

BR

Marcel

Edited by Zwakie

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Hi @Zwakie, technically the CC core fits in an Ultimaker 3 print head, however we do not recommend it when you also plan to use abrasive materials. The Ultimaker 3 feeder can not withstand those materials and will wear down.

 

As far as I know, there are no clear plans of retro-fitting the Ultimaker S5 feeder on the Ultimaker 3. But I can also not look into the future. 

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Thanks @SandervG for your reply. I was kind of expecting exactly that answer, so my next question was already in my mind yesterday: does Ultimaker not wish to increase customer satisfaction by making the feeder available for their UM3(+) customer base? In my view that would be a perfect way to create commitment with customers to follow Ultimaker's future path...

Edited by Zwakie

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4 hours ago, Dim3nsioneer said:

@Zwakie The new CC 0.6mm RED print core together with a Bondtech DDG V2 feeder for the UM3 might be exactly the bundle you need.

What country are you in?

 

I have visited Bondtech's website, and though it looks promising at that price point I am surprised nothing is stated about wear and tear when using abrasive materials. Do you have first-hand experience with that combo and do you care to join your experience with us?

 

BTW I am in The Netherlands.

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All Bondtech feeders are based on the same types of drive gears which grab the filament from both sides. The gears are made from hardened steel and have a protective coating (you can read it e.g. here: https://www.bondtech.se/en/product/drivegear-kits/). So it is very wear resistant. In case you want to print a super abrasive material and the Bondtech gear would show some wear-off (which I doubt), you could replace just the gears, it's available as a spare part.

I never had a problem with my Bondtech feeder, it's very reliable. And the good thing about the DDG is that it is a drop-in replacement for the Ultimaker 3/2+ feeder.

As for the new core I just used it in connection with the S5 feeder so far and for a quick test on the UM3 with the original UM3 feeder (which is ok if you don't do it too often).

It seems there is no Bondtech reseller yet in the Netherlands but e.g. in Germany you may find multiple ones that are also Ultimaker resellers.

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3 hours ago, Dim3nsioneer said:

All Bondtech feeders are based on the same types of drive gears which grab the filament from both sides. The gears are made from hardened steel and have a protective coating (you can read it e.g. here: https://www.bondtech.se/en/product/drivegear-kits/). So it is very wear resistant. In case you want to print a super abrasive material and the Bondtech gear would show some wear-off (which I doubt), you could replace just the gears, it's available as a spare part.

I never had a problem with my Bondtech feeder, it's very reliable. And the good thing about the DDG is that it is a drop-in replacement for the Ultimaker 3/2+ feeder.

As for the new core I just used it in connection with the S5 feeder so far and for a quick test on the UM3 with the original UM3 feeder (which is ok if you don't do it too often).

It seems there is no Bondtech reseller yet in the Netherlands but e.g. in Germany you may find multiple ones that are also Ultimaker resellers.

 

Thanks for the information @Dim3nsioneer , I missed that page. I was not expecting a vital piece of information ("Extremely high wear resistance for use with abrasive filaments") being missing on the regular feeder webpages ? ).

 

Certainly worthwhile considering to get me a set of those.

 

And nothing wrong with ordering in Sweden direct I would think, would it?

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12 hours ago, Zwakie said:

And nothing wrong with ordering in Sweden direct I would think, would it?

 

When you have no reseller nearby it certainly makes sense. But maybe you want to cross-check shipping costs as shipping from Sweden is rather on the expensive side...

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Extremely disappointed about the extremely high price set by Ultimaker for the CC Red core. In my view that kills all viable and reasonably priced options for using abrasive materials on a UM3. Add to that the fact that Cura only allows selection of this core for the 5S, and it is clear to me that Ultimaker is no longer that open source / community driven and loving company anymore.

 

It hurts to say this, but Ultimaker has just lost a great deal -if not all- of my sympathy as these recent marketing actions from Ultimaker are nothing short of a big ""f**k you" to customers like me who have purchased a UM3 in the very recent past and are now being told "sorry, we have no future for your new printer anymore"... 😞

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I can understand your disappointment, but I guess Ultimaker don't offer the CC print core for the UM3 because the UM3 isn't able to print abrasive materials out of the box. The UM3 feeder gear is not hardened enough to feed abrasive materials properly and the gear will wear out over a very short time. So to be on the safe side, CC core isn't officially offered for the UM3 and maybe due to the same reason not configurable in Cura.

 

But you have two options, regardless if you can set the CC in Cura you should be able to override the print core. No tested, but when you use the AA core in Cura, set the line width to 0.6 then you will get a warning, but it should work if you override the message.

 

Another possibility is to use a 3DSolex Core with an everlast nozzle or something like that. But as far as I know, this set is nearly in the same price range as the CC core, on the other hand, you can change nozzles as you like.

 

That being said, you are absolutely right, that the price compared to the other print cores is really high, especially here in Europe.

 

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Just to add:  The UM3 with either of the Bondtec upgrades can feed abrasive filament, so can then safely support either the CC or 3DSolex as noted above. 

 

If you do go with the feeder and hardcore mods, the interchangeable nozzles are nice for other things, like woodfill, or those times when you'd like to try a few different nozzle sizes to dial in resolution and test whether clogging is going to be an issue.

 

Price-wise, I was able to get the 3DSolex for less than the CC core, but by the time you add in a range of abrasive nozzles, it does start to add up.  Still, looking at the price of some of these filaments,  the whole exercise is a pain in the pocket book.  (edited for public reading)

 

J

Edited by JohnInOttawa

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Hi @SandervG I'm having quite hard times printing the XSTRAND™-3D-GF30-PA6 with my Ultimaker S5. 

I made a detailed post that I'm updating with lot's of detail, what are your thought about it?

Here you can find the full discussion, i will continue to update it with additional infos.

 

 

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Hi @Gabriele , thank you for your post. I saw it and send an email to our friends at Owens Corning to see if they could help you out as well. I will also respond to your thread later. 

 

Have you dried the filament before you used it, and if so; how? 

 

Obviously, your experiences are useful to everyone and please continue to share them but I also want to mention that in the Owens Corning - Cura Marketplace you can also find an email belonging to Owens Corning when you need help. 

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