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naz72

Ultimaker 2 (take two)

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My New Ultimaker 2 (replacement ) has arrived today (Thank you Sander,that was quick).

So I decided to waste no time & get it tested to see how it fares against my 1st one that had many issues & I already wrote about it & you can read it by clicking on this http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/3233-ultimaker-2-major-problems/

The first thing I realized when I opened the package was that the glass bed was moved but thankfully nothing broken.

null_zps146ff673.jpg

My advice is to use that blue tape to take the glass to the heated bed, or separate the glass & warp it & tape it to the side of the printer itself, but defiantly a better method is needed for this.

this time when I fired the printer it didn't need to level the heatbed, so it seems someone actually ran & tested it, but I decided that I have to go through the process again since it probably moved during shipping & it went very smooth this time.

I went ahead & tried printing directly from the SD card & choose the foldable cup but than things didn't go so well, I went into the tuning & everything seemed fine, so I let it run for some time and than decided its time to quit the print. this is what it looked like.

null_zps6d842cd6.jpg

null_zps08bd3da9.jpg

null_zps039210e2.jpg

I also decided I wont mess with the settings just yet, but it seems that there is still slipping at the back, I thought maybe it was the retraction sound, but it wasn't, so I decided to take a quick video & you can watch it here.

If you raise the volume you will hear it @ 13,21 & will see it @ 31& 40.

http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/naser404/media/E1BBDDB2-B1CC-4C2F-81FB-4CBBEF96DE35-2545-00000289948791F5_zpscee1b0ee.mp4.html

This problem seems to be the case with no just my UM2 but others too & this is at default settings, my older UM doesn't have this problem even when pushed at 500% speed, so you guys defiantly need to look into this. I see a Rev.2 coming in the near future & the Bowden design is one that should be updated.

Anyway its not all bad, I played a little with the settings & let it break-in a little :-P

well things started to look a lot better, so here is the 1st print using PLA Print from SD-Card.

null_zpsacbe8c85.jpg

null_zpsa2e23a02.jpg

Later I printed the cup again & it was a LOT better but not perfect, but these are things that can be tweaked.

null_zps51411bc4.jpg

I than decided its time to move to ABS material & it also worked well after the 2nd print, the reason is I had to connect using Cura (Hello Dhaid :smile: ) to extrude some material before going for the print. So here is ABS (RIGHT) compared to PLA (LEFT).

null_zps953de2a6.jpg

null_zps35893576.jpg

I will update this thread once I get a better understanding of how this printer works, but at the end, I would have to say I am satisfied so far and hope that the team behind the UM looks into the things I mentioned.

 

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I decided to replace the ABS with Blue PLA again, & this will always cause an error cause it tries to reach 280c before it retracts the material & triggers the 265c limit sensor & causes an error where you need to restart the UM2.

What you need to do is choose PLA after a restart and than change the customize setting to 260c temp choose okay than goto "Change Material".

I know its a Firmware bug, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Anyway I wanted to show the slipping even when not printing, this is when you wait for the material change where it says " Wait till material comes out the nozzle", I tried playing with the tension screw but its actually worse which leads me to think that even at lowest settings the tension is too much for the stepper motor or as I mentioned before you need to provide a little more current to the extruder motor. Here is the video.

http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/naser404/media/9E15BE4B-A44F-4484-9DAA-D933836CDEDF-2629-000002A3C48AFC2C_zpsecb1ae5c.mp4.html

 

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I know its a Firmware bug, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.

A fix is out, it's in the Cura 13.11 release. The default UM2 firmware in Cura 13.11 contains a fix for the 280C bug, a fix for the SD-Read error, and the option to save custom material presets.

Cura 13.11 will also run the fan at a lower speed at the first few layers for the UM2, so the head is cooled less which helps with extrusion.

 

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A fix is out, it's in the Cura 13.11 release. The default UM2 firmware in Cura 13.11 contains a fix for the 280C bug, a fix for the SD-Read error, and the option to save custom material presets.

Cura 13.11 will also run the fan at a lower speed at the first few layers for the UM2, so the head is cooled less which helps with extrusion.

Okay I just tried it & I updated the firmware. it seems that you need to press "Factory Reset" for the changes to take effect.

Will update later on how things go.

P.S: You really need to bring the Print button back, better than going to File > Print or hitting CTRL+P.

Also when your in the print window the Temps for the extruder & heatbed don't get updated, so I have to look at the graph instead of reading it on the left.

 

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UPDATE:

Printing at 0.25 layer with default speed setting on PLA with Cura & I am seeing LOADS & I mean lots like 2 times a second of major slipping.

EDIT: Anyway to increase current to extruder in the firmware ?? I would like to try it.

 

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0.25mm layers are quite thick, depending on the speed and temperature that you are printing at. Also, hasn't it previously been said that the preferred approach with the UM2 is to print from SD card, not via a USB link to the printer?

When you print from the SD card, I think the printer has some smarts about presets that maybe don't happen when you send gcode via USB?

 

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0.25mm layers are quite thick, depending on the speed and temperature that you are printing at. Also, hasn't it previously been said that the preferred approach with the UM2 is to print from SD card, not via a USB link to the printer?

When you print from the SD card, I think the printer has some smarts about presets that maybe don't happen when you send gcode via USB?

illiminarti,

Actually it was said that 0.30 layer is quite thick, so I guess now 0.25 too, maybe next time I only need to print @ 0.1 & 10mm/s speed ?!?

Also did you see the video that has "nothing' to do with cura or PC connections ? where it was constantly slipping while trying to feed new material ?

 

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No, I didn't look at the video. I wasn't addressing the video. I was just saying that if all the normal preamble gcode isn't running, then maybe the temperature is wrong, or the extruder steps setting is wrong, or something else is out of whack. Daid already pointed out that the UM2 is designed to print from SD card, and from your comments, it appeared that you weren't doing that. Also, the video that you mentioned further up the thread seemed to be before you updated the firmware, so I didn't think that that was particularly relevant anyway.

Every FDM printer has a maximum throughput in terms of volume of plastic per second. The volume you can extrude per second increases (within limits) depending on the temperature that you print at. Given whatever volume limit you're facing, you can make that amount up by printing faster, or thicker layers, or wider beads, but you can't do all three at the same time.

I was also observing that for this type of relatively high quality precision printer, it's pretty rare to print anything at 0.25mm. The general range that people use is 0.1mm to 0.2mm layers, with some special case uses going thinner still. But 0.25mm is thicker than most people print - and if nothing else, when printing at 0.25mm layers, you'll need to make sure that the linear speed is one-fifth less than when printing at 0.2mm layers, or 40% of the speed you might print 0.1mm layers at. Since you don't specify what linear speed you are printing at, I was simply observing that if you are using thicker than normal layers (which you are), then you also have to be careful and use slower than 'normal' speeds.

(I have no idea what 'the default' speed is that you're seeing in Cura, not least because it has several depending on the quality settings for the quickprint mode, and no meaningful concept of 'default' speed once you go into advanced settings).

People on here are trying to help you. I'm sorry that you're having difficulties, but antagonizing the people who are giving up their time to assist you isn't going to get you very far. And while you're at it, have the basic respect to spell people's names right.

 

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My dear friend,

I swear I read your name like 4 times to make sure I spell it right, especially seeing that people are more concerned about spelling their "Nick" name than actually addressing the issue at hand, what's with everyone getting upset when all I am trying to do is mention my actual experience !!? again I'm sorry for the miss-spelling, ( with Daid its intentional but only cause I like him)

Yes the printer was made to print from SD-Card but if your going to bloody make it that way, than you might as well make Wi-Fi connection so we can bloody send files to it, not everyone has computers with SD-card readers & I'm sure but telling me that its a cheap accessory that I can go buy is just not good enough.

Also you yourself said you didn't watch the video since there was a firmware update, but Daid already said what the firmware fixes or adds & nothing has been said about the slipping issue especially when printing while connected to a PC or using Cura.

And just so you know the reason I first made a mistake spelling Daid's name is because in my country there is a place called Al-Dhaid http://www.sharjahtourism.ae/en/coast/central-region where I have a farm & go there every weekend for hunting, im sure I didn't have to mention this but now I did for clearing it.

here

http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/naser404/library/

 

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I don't work for Ultimaker. I didn't make anything any particular way. The only reason I give up several hours of my time every day helping out on the forum is precisely so that people can have their problems addressed and get the most out of the technology.

In that spirit of wanting to help get things fixed, I made some reasonable, simple and, I maintain, relevant suggestions that might help to define the problem better, directly overcome some possible sources of problems, and help us all to begin to offer some suggestions about how best to get you the fully working printer that you deserve. I'm sorry that you didn't feel that my suggestions were worthy of a more considered and less arrogant initial response.

I genuinely do hope that you get your issues straightened out, but in order to avoid distracting the rest of the community from helping you, I won't bother to participate in this particular discussion further.

 

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Thank you, Naz72. I do accept your apology, and I genuinely hope that you can get your problems fixed. Because of nothing more than my own positive experiences as a customer, I believe in Ultimaker as a company, and in their product, and I think that given a chance the UM2 will work well for you. Equally, I know that you've paid a lot of money for the printer, and already had a bunch of problems, so you definitely deserve to get everything working smoothly and soon! Just be patient a little while longer, and work with them, and the folks here, and I think it'll work out fine.

I don't have my UM2 yet, so I can't offer much hands on advice. But I worked with one for a couple of days at Maker Faire, and my opinion was that it's really is a good printer, and a definite step up from the UM1. Good luck!

 

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Thank you my dear friend once again for your valuable information & help & I will be patient & will try to use the print more to better understand it & see what works best.

I also want to say that the printer "DOES" work & works well too but I guess I was trying to use it with cura from my PC as I use the older UM & so I wont blame the printer but rather the fact that I need to find the settings that works best for it.

Again I thank you & thank Daid and everyone else that helped.

 

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So.... Naz. I watched both videos. It's hard to tell what the issue is. If your first layer is supposed to be .3 or thicker - well it looks like you are too close to the print bed because the first layer in parts is *very* thin. I'd guess .05mm. So if you are asking for .1mm or more thickness but only printing .05, the pressure is going to build up. A lot! And I would expect slipping of the extruder. And occasionally it squirts out the side of the nozzle and makes kind of ugly blobs. So I think you should lower the print bed a tiny bit.

But by the time you get to the second or third layer it should start to look pretty good. Because on the second layer now it should be the correct distance and so it only has to deal with the blobs. By the third layer it might be fine.

Now in the second video with the blue filament it is clearly slipping. I don't understand the "filament loading procedure" but I do know that at one point Marlin lowers the current to the stepper on purpose so that it will skip steps and not harm the filament. Clearly the feeder can't keep up with the extrusion speed.

So I urge you to pay careful attention to the print volume of filament and the temperature. There is a limit to how much any 3d printer can extrude. It's just more obvious now if it is slipping because on the UM2 you can hear it skipping steps (slipping backwards with that click sound).

Illuminarti made this great table but it is for a .65mm nozzle on a UM1 but it gives you a good idea of the limits. Basically my UM1 can print about 10 cubic mm at 230C but at 190C much less. I suspect the UM2 needs higher temperatures than the UM1 due to that tiny heat chamber but no one has published tests for a UM2 (which is sooo much easier as you can simply listen for the clicks at different print speeds and temperatures! and then take good notes and publish).

Scroll down to the colorful graph:

http://www.extrudable.me/2013/04/18/exploring-extrusion-variability-and-limits/

 

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Hello,

 

I just realized that the glass does not stand on its support for processor-transport!

 

It scares me! I expect that the UM ² and must be delivered by DHL. The path to my studio through hollow and chaos!

 

It is good to see how to have placed the glass plate. I would prefer it to be packed separately and assembled by me rather than having to wait for a new plate if it is broken! In any case, souyez safe in case of trouble, photos and my energy will remind you of the order will be present!

 

Thank you for the actions you would take him on the quality of your product including transportation!

 

Alex.

 

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I tried printing using PLA a big print from the SD-Card, it needed 15 hours to finish, but 3 hours before the print was finished I checked it & this is what I got, so I decided to abort the print.

Setting on the UM2 were as follows:

Speed: 125 %

Heat temp: 220 c

Heatbed temp: 72 c

Fan speed: 50%

Flow : 110 %

Retraction : 5mm @ 24mm/s

I sliced using cura at these settings:

Capture_zpsc9f5a1e2.jpg

Capture2_zps7aed22c8.jpg

Capture3_zpse6c26506.jpg

Here is how it looks like

null_zpscb60ae16.jpg

null_zpsfad0af8c.jpg

null_zps9cee59bf.jpg

here is what I saw at the back of the bed, can you see the black particles, where it says Ultimaker 2??

null_zps880c0231.jpg

null_zpsb5c7e823.jpg

a little sad after waiting nearly 10 hours :sad: :sad: :sad:

 

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what the hell are the black particles from ???

also it doesnt look like the model is really sticking to the print base ?? i can see the ends and corners lifting up..

Did you try this gluestick trick ?

I cant wait to get my ultimaker 2 and be able to help you more... :-)

Ian :-)

 

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Can you wipe those particles off or is it damaged?

Strange indeed.

If you use the glue stick and heat the heated bed up to approx 70°C you shouldn't have any

adhesion issues..

What is the model suppose to look like? Can you add an image of the model? (screenshot Cura).

 

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Hi Sander,

I didn't use the glue stick thinking it was only needed for ABS, rarely have an issue with PLA except if your printing a big part but I will try using it next, just hate cleaning it every time.

The model is a DJI Phantom quadchoper transmitter box that I divided into 2 parts to fit the printer, the part I was printing was the right side.

Here is the complete model & also a picture of that single part from the assembly:

DJIPhantomTX_zpsdb7ed839.jpg

DJIPhantomTXRightside_zps9723d64c.jpg

I 1st thought these particles were some kind of oil from the ball screw for the Z-Axis but than I realized when I tried cleaning it that its stuck & are hard tiny particles so they are obviously from the filament. weird indeed & I am not sure how they got there but if you look closely you will see they are at the same level as the layers that started to not print.

might not be clear from that side of the picture I took.

I cleaned everything now & will print again but this time @ 0.2 layer height.

will update later.

 

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It looks like you had under-extrusion for a few layers. One possible cause is if the filament tangles. Another explanation is if you got "bad" filament that is at 3 or 3.1mm instead of the standard 2.85mm. Try measuring the filament although the diameter may only be bad in one spot.

Too bad you didn't catch the problem on video. :(

The glue stick and heat will help the corners from cooling but won't fix the reason the print failed.

Note also that at one point you have a cylinder sticking out the side of your part and the bottom didn't print well as it was printing in "mid air". If you can change the cad so the bottom of the cylinder angles a little you might get a better result although if it were me I would just fix it afterwards with a file.

 

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I got my UM2 last week, and I have some comments, following on with this thread.

- The Glass plate had slipped in shipping, breaking the back right clip. Clearly this problem is common and I should imagine they have already changed the packing method. I am waiting for a replacement clip to arrive from Ultimaker, meanwhile, I am using it without the back clip.

- On the whole I am very, very pleased with the UM2. I had no (reality-check) experience of 3D printing before, so my expectations were very high.

Here are some things I have learned, which apply to UM2 and probably in general.

- The quality / design of the model seems to be crucial. Sympathetic modelling can work around any weaknesses in the FFD 3D printing mechanism. I am now avoiding any total overhangs (so I can work without support), sticking to an overhang angle of around 60 degrees max.

- I am modelling in Sketchup Pro v8 with the susolid plug in. I am vigilant in making sure my models are all 'solid' - by checking that each component shows a 'volume' in the entity information in Sketchup. When the solid breaks, I use susolid to identify the problem and auto fix it, or fix it manually. Eliminating holes in the model makes for strong clean prints.

- 0.1mm layer height seems to be what to use. I tried 0.2mm and the difference in quality is huge. 0.1mm = perfect, 0.2mm = disappointing.

- Cura 13.10 doesn't show the retraction lines, so its not clear if any retraction is going on. I don't have any experience to tell if I should be getting better retraction - certainly I do get stringing in my prints, so who knows. Selecting "Add printer" then "cancel" in Cura 13.10 makes the lines show up, along with some new retraction settings in the side bar. No idea if I am just switching into UM1 mode????

- The glue stick thing works well. No need for tape. You can wash off the glue with warm water, easily. If you let the bed cool right down and your printer is stored somewhere cold (mine is in a garage), the next day you can just rub the glue off the glass, and it comes off without washing. Then add new glue. Sometimes its tough to get a big print off the bed, but brute force has worked so far.

- I am getting a bit of ringing, not sure how to work on that. My prints are very clean and high quality, so you can notice the ringing. Its almost perfect, but eliminating the ringing would be nice. I am printing at the default speed of 50mm/sec. So far just using the standard Ultimaker Blue PLA which came with the unit. I have ordered some Faberdashery PLA, I hope it won't bring any complications. Not tried ABS yet.

- The UM2 itself is really nicely built, the LEDs are great, its pretty quiet, compact, and (so far) mechanically-reliiable.

- I have got a Raspberry Pi connected, running Octoprint. The webcam feature is working, but so far I have not been able to use Octoprint to control the UM2 reliably. I am guessing Octoprint has not been setup for UM2 yet (its often used with UM1 I believe). It would be nice to send a file to the Octoprint and get it printing on the UM2 remotely, but at present I am still shuffling SD2 cards and controlling from the front panel.

I am mostly using UM2 for mechanical engineering, and some architectural modelling. See the pic below of some results of my first week as a 3D printer. Per my comment about the quality of the model, the faceting on the large pillar base is due to the default circle-resolution in SketchUp - not the UM2. The UM2 is capable of much smoother curves, so you need to increase the facets when modelling for best results.

I hope my comments and results will give Naz72 some optimism. Using 0.1mm and taking it easy.

 

gallery_21728_276_2366081.jpg

 

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I got my UM2 last week, and I have some comments, following on with this thread.

- The Glass plate had slipped in shipping, breaking the back right clip. Clearly this problem is common and I should imagine they have already changed the packing method. I am waiting for a replacement clip to arrive from Ultimaker, meanwhile, I am using it without the back clip.

- On the whole I am very, very pleased with the UM2. I had no (reality-check) experience of 3D printing before, so my expectations were very high.

Here are some things I have learned, which apply to UM2 and probably in general.

- The quality / design of the model seems to be crucial. Sympathetic modelling can work around any weaknesses in the FFD 3D printing mechanism. I am now avoiding any total overhangs (so I can work without support), sticking to an overhang angle of around 60 degrees max.

- I am modelling in Sketchup Pro v8 with the susolid plug in. I am vigilant in making sure my models are all 'solid' - by checking that each component shows a 'volume' in the entity information in Sketchup. When the solid breaks, I use susolid to identify the problem and auto fix it, or fix it manually. Eliminating holes in the model makes for strong clean prints.

- 0.1mm layer height seems to be what to use. I tried 0.2mm and the difference in quality is huge. 0.1mm = perfect, 0.2mm = disappointing.

- Cura 13.10 doesn't show the retraction lines, so its not clear if any retraction is going on. I don't have any experience to tell if I should be getting better retraction - certainly I do get stringing in my prints, so who knows. Selecting "Add printer" then "cancel" in Cura 13.10 makes the lines show up, along with some new retraction settings in the side bar. No idea if I am just switching into UM1 mode????

- The glue stick thing works well. No need for tape. You can wash off the glue with warm water, easily. If you let the bed cool right down and your printer is stored somewhere cold (mine is in a garage), the next day you can just rub the glue off the glass, and it comes off without washing. Then add new glue. Sometimes its tough to get a big print off the bed, but brute force has worked so far.

- I am getting a bit of ringing, not sure how to work on that. My prints are very clean and high quality, so you can notice the ringing. Its almost perfect, but eliminating the ringing would be nice. I am printing at the default speed of 50mm/sec. So far just using the standard Ultimaker Blue PLA which came with the unit. I have ordered some Faberdashery PLA, I hope it won't bring any complications. Not tried ABS yet.

- The UM2 itself is really nicely built, the LEDs are great, its pretty quiet, compact, and (so far) mechanically-reliiable.

- I have got a Raspberry Pi connected, running Octoprint. The webcam feature is working, but so far I have not been able to use Octoprint to control the UM2 reliably. I am guessing Octoprint has not been setup for UM2 yet (its often used with UM1 I believe). It would be nice to send a file to the Octoprint and get it printing on the UM2 remotely, but at present I am still shuffling SD2 cards and controlling from the front panel.

I am mostly using UM2 for mechanical engineering, and some architectural modelling. See the pic below of some results of my first week as a 3D printer. Per my comment about the quality of the model, the faceting on the large pillar base is due to the default circle-resolution in SketchUp - not the UM2. The UM2 is capable of much smoother curves, so you need to increase the facets when modelling for best results.

I hope my comments and results will give Naz72 some optimism. Using 0.1mm and taking it easy.

 

Hello abstract,

Thank you for the feedback & the great tips.

In my case I use solidworks & its been working very well with me since I first made my 1st 3D printer.

The thing with 0.1mm vs 0.2 or even 0.25 is huge but only if your making some models, once you start building something huge than the difference with bigger layer becomes un noticed. But the time difference is whats important, the model that got messed up in my last post has been printed again with double the layer height 0.2 & here you can see there is no noticeable difference but it took about 3-4 hours less.

Also most of the time I am printing parts just to see how it works out & later will make them on my cnc router or mill, so I am not interested in best quality except when its a part that I will actually use.

0.1 at the bottom & 0.2 top:

null_zpsdc8aac0c.jpg

here is the last print I did of the same part that gave a problem half way but this time @ 0.2, it worked well this time but again I think retraction does work with UM2 or maybe I still need to find how to get it working for the UM2.

null_zps1d2e9f32.jpg

null_zps323f4a38.jpg

Completed model TX Left & right, just need to make them both black.

null_zpse1275f54.jpg

sorry for the bad pictures, will try taking better ones later.

 

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