Horizontal holes

[baroberts 0]

Our Horizontal holes are now being sliced and printed as slots.   Looks fine in the prepare screen but in the preview the holes are slotted.....and it prints that way.

This just started in the last couple weeks.  We use autodesk inventor to create our parts and export to STL.

Please see example below. Thanks

[gr5 2,172]

I suspect it's an illusion due to the fact that it shows the filament infinitely thin.  Although it's possible you set "horizontal expansion" to a negative value.

 

Please share your project file: go to menu "file" "save...".  The resulting file contains not only your STL but the scaling, positioning.  Also it has your machine (printer) settings, your material settings, your profile used, and settings that you overrode.  Please post that here.

[baroberts 0]

This is a part I was testing things on....but all  my prints are doing this.  Even the top pf the triangle is flattened

Test block.3mf

[nallath 1,120]

59 minutes ago, gr5 said:

I suspect it's an illusion due to the fact that it shows the filament infinitely thin.  Although it's possible you set "horizontal expansion" to a negative value.

 

Please share your project file: go to menu "file" "save...".  The resulting file contains not only your STL but the scaling, positioning.  Also it has your machine (printer) settings, your material settings, your profile used, and settings that you overrode.  Please post that here.

I'm pretty sure it's the horizontal expansion.  The second image clearly shows that.

[gr5 2,172]

@baroberts - that 3mf file is created from some version of cura not compatible with the latest (4.8).  Are you using the alpha version of cura?  I don't want to install that right now - check your "horizontal expansion" setting.

 

Also try cura 4.8 and slice with that.  If horizontal expansion values are all zero and you still have the problem then try cura 4.8 and if you still have the problem then post the project file created with cura 4.8 please.

 

 

[gr5 2,172]

@baroberts - also what is the actual nozzle width of your printer and what is "line width" set to in your cura settings?  Ideally you want them to be the same value.  If line width is large it does something very similar to setting "horizontal expansion" to a negative value.

[baroberts 0]

I have tried different horizonal expansion settings......the one in  the first pictures was set to negative.....

But the project file I sent was at 0.

I am downloading 4.8now.

 

My nozzle is .4, so is line width... 

Will try the new software version and get back....Thanks for the help

[baroberts 0]

cura 4.8 doesnt  have my printer....Monoprice maker ultimate 2

[GregValiant 1,251]

In whatever you were using previously, check the setting "Experimental | Slicing Tolerance" it should be set to "middle".

 

 

[baroberts 0]

ok

 

[baroberts 0]

it was on middle      i reloaded 4.3 so it has my printer    and trying the different things

[gr5 2,172]

To make your "slots" more vertical set horizontal expansion to a positive value.  To make the slots wider/horizontal set horizontal expansion to a postive value.

 

Horizontal expansion only expands your part in X and Y but not Z.  It's not like scaling.  It makes all walls thicker and everything thicker.  It doesn't affect dimensions in Z.

 

In the pictures you posted, the display only showed the *center* of the extruded traces and didn't show the line width applied so it makes your horizontal holes look wide even though they shouldn't be in real life.

 

You should be able to print everything with horizontal expansion set to 0.  If holes are horizontal slots then you probably have underextrusion.  Pretty severe underextrusion.  Fixed by getting a more powerful feeder or printing hotter or much slower (try half speed you've been doing).

[baroberts 0]

ok thanks...will do somemore testing

[baroberts 0]

I have tried the suggestions that everyone has mention....I am still getting the problem with my horizontal holes.

Any other suggestions......I got a new laptop since the last post, have reloaded everything, but the problem is still there.

The rest of the print looks really good.......

I tried putting a plus value for the horizontal expansion and it does help but then it makes the whole part bigger which I can't live with in most cases.  Thanks in advance.

 

[GregValiant 1,251]

I checked you Test Block again.  It looks good with the Horizontal Expansion at 0.  Changing the HE to -1 does make the holes into slots and the top of the triangle is flat.

 

When you measure the height of the physical print - is it correct?

[baroberts 0]

I will try it again.....I have a 5 hours print going right now.....will check after that...or when I get to work on the other printer.

We havent had this problem until lately.......It also shows in the preview that it will be slotted....is it possible to add my printer to the newer version of cura.....I have 4.3 that came with the printer from Monoprice?

[GregValiant 1,251]

Regarding adding your printer to 4.8 - @gr5 or @nallath will know better.  I would think you just need to copy the Monoprice printer definition files and extruder definition files from 4.3 to the corresponding folders in 4.8.

Look for Monoprice files in Program Files\Ultimaker Cura 4.3\resources\definitions" and in "...\resources\extruders".  There will be at least one Printer Definition file (sometimes there is also a "base" file).  There will be an Extruder Definition file for each extruder on your printer.

In the case of my Ender there is "creality_base.def.json" and "creality_ender3pro.def.json" and in the extruder folder there is "creality_base_extruder_0.def.json".  I would need to copy all three of those files to the correct 4.8 folders and then restart Cura and install the printer.

 

I mentioned checking the overall height because the Z steps/mm of the printer could scale a part down in the Z.  But if the problem appears in the Cura Preview then the Z steps aren't likely to be the problem.  The print looks too good to be a mechanical problem with the Z.  That usually manifests itself as variable layer heights or banding.

[baroberts 0]

Height is pretty much perfect.....499/.500    ......    supposed to be 500

width of holes is on the small side .245, and the height of the holes is short  .238

supposed to be .250

[baroberts 0]

Also 4.8 would not recognize the definition file from 4.3

[GregValiant 1,251]

If the files weren't recognized then maybe one of the big guns (@tinkergnome or @gr5) can chime in tomorrow.

 

So Z-steps aren't the problem (that was a long shot anyway).  It's back to the problem being with Cura as the preview indicates.

 

The dimension shows an out-of-round of .007" or about 0.2mm.  Because the layer height is .2mm there is going to be some error as the hole is 6.35 diameter which isn't divisible by 0.2.  I've noticed that Cura doesn't like to go over a Z dimension (it would be outside of the part) and so it will short a Z dimension.  A vertical feature of 6.35 would typically be 6.2 (.244) because the next step is to 6.4.

Some error can also come in dependent on where the horizontal centerline of the hole is.  Cura doesn't know where the centerline is of course, but it does effect where the solid portion of the hole is in relation to where a layer line is.  More fudging might have to be done there in order to keep the slicing within the solid portion of the model both above and below the centerline.

 

The oddest thing of all this is that when gr5 or I slice your test model it looks fine.  When you slice it there are slots instead of holes.  Have you tried laying the part on it's side to see if the slots remain horizontal?

[tinkergnome 927]

11 hours ago, baroberts said:

width of holes is on the small side .245, and the height of the holes is short  .238

supposed to be .250

 

Sounds pretty normal for horizontal holes - if you ask me...

The "roof" of such holes prints with a very steep overhang angle or in mid air. That's why it always sags a bit downwards.

 

Horizontal holes may become a bit more round if printed with support "everywhere", but those supports are a p.i.t.a. to remove if you can't use PVA as support material...

Personally i would design the holes a bit smaller and drill them to the exact size in a post-processing step.

 

[baroberts 0]

These were printed with support everywhere

 

[baroberts 0]

I have tried turning the part diffferent directions....the only way they look round in cura is when I lay it flat....so the holes are vertical.....which I cant always do