Polymaker Polylite TM ASA

[nizam87 0]

Hi, 

 

I am using UMS5 and Polymaker ASA profile from marketplace.

 

I am having trouble getting good print quality using the material (images attached). The material was not extruded evenly especially on the first layer and there are visible dents (not sure the correct term) on the vertical wall of the part (image showing three holes).

 

Could it be because the printer is not fully enclosed or perhaps due to previous material sticking on the external surface of the nozzle? Or do I need to properly clean the nozzle?

 

Any help is much appreciated.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by nizam87

[gr5 2,172]

I haven't printed with ASA so I'm not sure if it gets any better than this.  PLA is just such a wonderful material if you are looking for good looking prints.

 

I've heard people call those "zits".  I don't care about them much so I haven't paid too much attention but they happen when the pressure in the nozzle is high and some filament squirts out sideways in the cracks.

 

I'd try cutting the speed by 2X to see what happens and play with it from there.  I think you can do that live in the TUNE menu.  Also in Cura make all your speed settings the same.  By default Cura prints faster in the infill and slower on the outer skin so you get overpressure when it slows down (too much pressure in the print head for a few seconds until it equalizes again).

 

Let us know what you learn.

 

Everything is a tradeoff.  If you want prettier walls you can do it but it will probably cost you in print time.

[nizam87 0]

Thanks for your help gr5. yes I did make the speed lower and same across and the result is as attached.

 

However I found that ASA is quite weak in the layer height direction which is not suitable for my application i.e. to hold weight in that direction. Now testing with Polymax PC which is claimed to have better mech prop.

 

I would like to get your advice on two things:

 

1. Line width - Why the preset profile tend to use different values of line width? will this have significant effect on the quality of the print? I usually use same line width for other printers.

 

2. Equalize Filament Flow -  Is the printer smart enough to optimize this variable as it claimed? Do you normally turn it on or off?

[gr5 2,172]

40 minutes ago, nizam87 said:

However I found that ASA is quite weak in the layer height direction which is not suitable for my application i.e. to hold weight in that direction.

The weakness should never be along layer lines like this.  If it is then you have bad layer adhesion.  This is because as you print a new layer over an old layer, the new layer is not melting the old layer enough to get a good bond.

 

You fix this by lowering the fan speed.  As low as possible.  I'd try 1% and start from there.  Also consider covering the top of your S5 with a large box.  Ideal air temp is around 35C to 40C (the highest safe temperature - you won't damage any components with air at 40C).

 

You can play with the fan speed in the TUNE menu but you want it as low as possible but still turning.

 

You don't have to cover the top of the printer - slowing down the fan (possibly to 0%) will help the strength a LOT.

[gr5 2,172]

I set my wall width to be a multiple of line width so for a AA 0.4 nozzle I may set the wall width to 1.2mm for example.  But never 1mm or 1.3mm.  Always make it an even multiple of the primary line width.  I like 0.4mm line width for a 0.4 nozzle by the way.  The default might be 0.35mm?  I forget.

 

Equalize Filament Flow  - I never touch that.  I make print speeds the same and line widths the same and don't worry about the equalize filament flow feature.

[nizam87 0]

thanks for your advice on the fan speed, line width, and the filament. It validates my assumptions.

 

regarding the strength on the layer lines, I found that ASA is not as strong as I thought. A little force applied made the part breaks as shown in previous image. However, when I applied force perpendicular to the printing direction, the part dis not break.

 

I also tried printing using Polymax PC (as attached image) and it was very strong. Unbreakable by manual force. Surface quality also is much better.

 

 

[gr5 2,172]

8 hours ago, nizam87 said:

A little force applied made the part breaks as shown in previous image. However, when I applied force perpendicular to the printing direction, the part dis not break.

Again - this is not normal.  Not acceptable.  It means you have bad layer adhesion.  And it can be fixed.  I've heard that thicker layers helps.  Higher printing temp, higher air temp, lower fan speed can help.  You get the exact same problem with all higher temp materials like ABS and Nylon.  This is why for most people ABS seems like a very weak material (along layer lines).  But these changes have other consequences so you have to tread lightly.  Higher temp can clog the nozzle on many filaments (notably ABS).

 

Please stop saying ASA is weak without qualifying that with "when printed wrong".

 

When Ultimaker creates a profile for a new material, they create this print like a vertical pencil with notches in it.  They try lower and lower temperatures as you go up this "pencil".  then they break the print and count how many layer lines were crossed when it broke.  If the break is 100% in the layer line it gets a score of zero (something like that).  If the crack crosses many layer lines it gets a high score (10 or something).  They use this to judge what temperature, fan speed, bed temp, layer thickness is sufficient to get good adhesion.  In my opinion there is a problem with the fan speed in Ultimaker profiles.  Either it's only my printer or someone made a mistake or... I don't know what... but the fan speeds seem all out of whack.  I think you said ASA was at 20% but my S5 prints at 100% power when fan speed is at 20%.  There is no difference until you get down to around 10% - only then does the fan start to slow down but only slightly.  Your printer may be completely different.

 

So I strongly recommend you play with the fan speed in TUNE mode and listen.  You can judge fan power by ear.  Don't use pitch or RPM as it may come down in only one tonal step (7% change in rpm) and yet be more like 30% less power.  Just think - how much power does that seem like when you listen.  Trust your ear which hears pitch and also volume. Compared to the other setting.  Maybe make a chart - something like this but this may be unique for your printer:

 

fan setting - actual power

12% - full power

11% - 90%

10% - 70%

9% - 60%

8% - 60%

7% - 50%

6% - 40%

5% - 30%

4% - 10%

3% 5%

2% fan won't spin

1% fan won't spin

 

Then if the profile called for 20% I'd set the fan to 4 or 5% according to the above chart.  Again - don't use this chart!!  The above chart is similar to my S5 but I doubt your S5 is just like mine.  And my fan spins fine at 1% on my S5 but my UM2 won't start spinning until around 30%.

 

[catalancabreado 0]

I print ASA on a 2+ connect Ultimaker

 

I use nozzle 0.6 (large parts) and 0.4 ruby nozzle with good results on small parts

for good results

 

I have the printer fully closed, you can print with the printer open but the result will not be perfect

 

250º nozzle and 90 degrees for the heated bed, the fans at 0% and I always use original magigoo with edge

 

the ASA is made of smartfill, the resistance is very high and the parts are of very good quality, almost impossible to break

[Framar 38]

I've printed many ASA brands; and they are not all equal. I cannot tell for Polymaker but the best I've got was from FormFutura.

[gr5 2,172]

On 5/24/2021 at 3:23 PM, catalancabreado said:

the fans at 0%

Ah!  That makes the parts STRONG!

[nizam87 0]

gr5, thanks for the great insights on how to tune your fan speed and how Utimaker esperimented with the profile settings for specific material. I will definitely check my fan speed manually as suggested. Nevertheless when I checked the Cura Polymaker ASA profile it was already set at 5% (see image). perhaps I need to change to 0% as catalancabreado suggested. Or completely disable the print cooling.

 

Yes I agree with Framar that not all brands are equal. I used ASA from Sunlu before and it feels studier even with infill. Or maybe wrong settings on my UMS5.

 

p/s apologies and I will refrain from saying the material is weak from now on without doing proper testing 😅

[Gero 54]

Just found this thread while searching the forum for ASA threads because I too face some problems currently. I use the BASF ASA black. The first tests (Benchy ofc) had some huge warping issues. After reading this thread I checked the cooling settings in the profile which I got from the marketplace. For some reason its telling me to print with the fan on 100%. For any ABS/ASA filament that kinda seems not right to me.

 

I set it to 1% and started a new print. The warping issue now wasn't as near as bad as the first attempt. But the overhangs on the Benchy were looking really bad. So I went up to 15% fan speed. The quality now is way better as with the fan speed on 1%...

 

However, I am now facing the problem of really weak layer adhesion. The print quality looks great while printing with 260°C on the nozzle, 15% cooling fan and the preset 0,1mm layer height, but a weak print where I can take the Benchy with my bare hands apart isn't really useful...

 

I will try some slower speeds and some different cooling settings in the profile to make sure that no cooling thresholds are messing up my fan speed settings in the tune tab, but so far I am a bit disappointed in the material profile because I don't see the base settings producing any strong parts for the BASF ASA.

[gr5 2,172]

Well I'd try to get the air temp inside your printer to about 40C so I'd enclose the top.  Mostly enclosed.  Just a box flipped over and placed on top should be fine.  Also maybe thicker layers?  Are you doing 0.2mm layers?  I'd do at least 0.2mm thick or maybe thicker.

 

Then I'd set the fan speed to something half way between 15% and 1%.  Yes I didn't mention that the quality of overhangs will indeed suffer if fan is at 0% but just a little bit more fan should be enough.

 

Really I just wouldn't print with ASA at all as other materials are easier to print and meet my needs.  Like PLA, PETG.

[Benjamin4456 0]

Just my two cents, but I've always understood that thinner layers are stronger - less area to heat, closer contact to the previous layer, etc.  Anyway, ASA is definitely something that has applications, but the strength issue is an interesting one.  I ought to do some more testing, but even a little layer cooling massively improves overhangs in my experience, although I can't say how much it decreases layer adhesion.  So far layer adhesion seems adequate, but not stellar.  Certainly not in the same ballpark as PETG.  This is with an enclosed, modified E3P, with a recirculating filtration fan on Raise3D ASA.

 

Subbing in case anything else develops.

[catalancabreado 0]

If they do not have the printer completely closed they will not be able to print it without deformations

 

essential magigoo original for good adhesion

 

my results in large pieces are better with a 0.6 nozzle, I get high quality pieces, very large and good resistance, with the 0.4 nozzle I think printing large pieces is very difficult