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Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?


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Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

 

I have a very strange problem.

 

We bought back in December a new UMS3.

Everything works fine until 6 weeks ago.

We suddenly had underexstrusion, so bad that the flow sensor sometimes got triggered.

 

So we tried cleaning the nozzle, new nozzle,...

Other materials 

Cleaning feeder

Changing flow % and temp in Cura

...

 

In meanwhile we contacted the seller, but wasn't very helpful.

 

I send our machine file to a acquaintance withe the same printer.

He used our material and the prints were perfect.

 

So we thought, ok the printer is the problem.

 

We bought this guy's printer so we can finally make some products.

 

So when we installed this printer at home, we ran into the same problem.

 

How is that possible.

 

It isn't a printer problem, it isn't a material problem, it isn't program problem,...

 

What's left???

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    I suggest you contact UltiMaker support to see if they can help you with this problem.

     

    Depending on what filament you are using, it's possible that differences in the ambient temperature or humidity could be causing underextrusion.

     

    Another thing which could potentially be different is how the filament is being fed into the printer. Unfortunately I don't know much about UltiMaker hardware so I can't suggest anything specific.

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    Hi @Xhoax,

     

    as you bought a second printer of same brand, using your "same" filament printing fine at another place..

    This is kind of weird, -but suggesting you're living on the northern hemisphere -a little north(?). Six weeks ago the temperatures "around" riced quite fast.

    What kind of environment are your printer used (temperature)?

     

    As everything else is sorted out, -this is my best guess..

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?
    2 hours ago, NTwoO said:

    High ambient temperature does this. Especially with pla 

    What is high?

    It is in our living room atm.

    We are speaking of max 25°C.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    It could be your cura settings.  For example you may be printing at 0.2mm layers and they are printing at 0.1mm layers so you may be printing at twice the volume.

     

    It helps to know if you have underextrusion within seconds so you have an idea if you fixed the problem or not and don't waste time starting a print.  one test I do is to use the MOVE command on the display (middle menu bar on left, click on the material in the top corner, then the "..." in the corner, then "MOVE").

     

    I tap the arrow faster and faster until it is too fast and the material starts slowing down so then I slow down to find the max speed (it's easier than it sounds).  Then I put a kink or 90 degree in the material up at the nozzle and hold it and lower my hand as the material comes out until it hits the print bed.  I time this.  It should take typically 10 seconds.  Maybe 8.  Maybe 12.  20 seconds?  You have a problem.  Could be feeder (cold end) or print core (hot end).

     

    If it only takes 10 seconds then maybe your issue is in the print settings or really is the air temperature.  Ultimaker likes it cool (20C).  Of course they test their designs at 30C but every day so it's a bit of a blind spot.  Or at least it was at one time.  I rarely associate higher temps with underextrusion unless the front fan (not the side fans) is not spinning.  But maybe you should show a photo as your idea of "underextrusion" may be different from mine.

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?
    57 minutes ago, gr5 said:

    Ultimaker likes it cool (20C).  Of course they test their designs at 30C

    So are you saying if I bought an UltiMaker printer and have problems in the middle of an Australian summer when it's 42 degrees with 100% humidity, if I contact support all they'll be able to tell me is "turn on the air conditioner"?

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?
    5 hours ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

    So are you saying if I bought an UltiMaker printer and have problems in the middle of an Australian summer when it's 42 degrees with 100% humidity, if I contact support all they'll be able to tell me is "turn on the air conditioner"?

    Nope, but they might tell you that you're running your unit outside of spec and that it might be handy to print a few temp towers to check if you can find a better sweet spot for your conditions.

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    42C!  Sounds like deathly hot.  It might work.  But with the bed at 60C and PLA gets a bit soft starting at 52C...

     

    There have been a few (very rare) situations where the only problem was that the room was hot.  I forget what it affected - maybe the stepper driver was cutting out (it has thermal control)?  But it was around I think 30-35C.  In Brazil I think.

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?
    18 hours ago, gr5 said:

    It could be your cura settings.  For example you may be printing at 0.2mm layers and they are printing at 0.1mm layers so you may be printing at twice the volume.

     

    It helps to know if you have underextrusion within seconds so you have an idea if you fixed the problem or not and don't waste time starting a print.  one test I do is to use the MOVE command on the display (middle menu bar on left, click on the material in the top corner, then the "..." in the corner, then "MOVE").

     

    I tap the arrow faster and faster until it is too fast and the material starts slowing down so then I slow down to find the max speed (it's easier than it sounds).  Then I put a kink or 90 degree in the material up at the nozzle and hold it and lower my hand as the material comes out until it hits the print bed.  I time this.  It should take typically 10 seconds.  Maybe 8.  Maybe 12.  20 seconds?  You have a problem.  Could be feeder (cold end) or print core (hot end).

     

    If it only takes 10 seconds then maybe your issue is in the print settings or really is the air temperature.  Ultimaker likes it cool (20C).  Of course they test their designs at 30C but every day so it's a bit of a blind spot.  Or at least it was at one time.  I rarely associate higher temps with underextrusion unless the front fan (not the side fans) is not spinning.  But maybe you should show a photo as your idea of "underextrusion" may be different from mine.

    We started a print with a new type of infill (before Triangle)

    After 8 hours it's starting to begin underextruding.

     

    This is viber PLA

    See photo

    IMG-20240626-WA0011.jpg

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    Looks like you noticed the problem pretty soon after it started.  When it starts failing I'd jump into the TUNE menu and experiment.  I'd try:

    1) lowering fan to 1%

    2) Raising nozzle temp by 10C

    3) Lowering speed to 33%

     

    I'd try one at a time and let it print 2-5 layers or until you are sure it makes no difference then restore and try the next to see if any of those make a huge difference.  Once it fails this is a VERY VALUABLE MOMENT because it takes you 8 hours to get here.  Don't cancel the print and lose that valuable opportunity to experiment.  If one of those works (e.g. 10C increase) then I'd try half the change (e.g. 5C increase).

     

    This looks like some kind of filled filament such as wood fill or talc fill or stone fill.  Is it?  Could it be that the fill is partially clogging the nozzle?

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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    Things that cause a print to fail well into the print:

    front fan fails.  It can get clogged up.  When the front fan fails it doesn't cool the print core properly and heat gets transferred upwards especially if retraction distance is too long but just... "heat flows up".

     

    extruder driver gets hot - the stepper drivers under the printer have builtt in temperature features where they can shut down even for just 1/10 second or they lower the drive current and the stepper doesn't have the power to complete a step.  These chips are not made by UltiMaker and do this without "reporting back" to the CPU so the printer only knows if you have the flow sensor enabled.

     

    Too cold.  As the print head gets farther from the hot print bed, the air is cooler and the cooling fan can be too powerful for the nozzle.  Cooler filament is more viscous and doesn't flow as well.  This is rarely the problem on an S series printer unless you lost your silicone "sock" that fits around the nozzle but I think I see it in the photo.

     

    All 3 of these issue should have been noted by the flow sensor.  You can see a graph of the flow sensor results but it's very hard to interpret.  By going to the printer's ip address with a web browser and clicking on the "temperature graph" link.

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    Posted (edited) · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    There is a cura profile for vibers. Not sure what differences it has. In the tech sheet of colorfabb they mention a bed temp of 50-60 and the test prints were done with a bed temperature of 55 degrees and a nozzle temperature of 210.

    Edited by NTwoO
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    Posted · Ultimaker S3 - underextrusion?

    If the issue is a fiber clog, the temperature won't matter, the fix is to buy a different brand filament, lol.  Or use larger nozzles.  Do they recommend a minimum nozzle size?  visual quality goes down with larger nozzles because they leak more.

     

    But there is a good chance it's not a fiber clog and something else.  Like a fan failing.  Or your room is too hot.  Or a bad print core.

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