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mjmdavis

UM+ v UM2

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Hi All,

I'm pondering joining the Ultimaker community but I'm having trouble deciding between a UM+ and a UM2. I have a couple of questions that I would love to have answered:

Print Quality:

What is the difference between a UM+ and a UM2? The UM+ now states a layer resolution of 20um, just like the UM2. Does this close the gap in terms of print quality? What other factors improve the UM2 print quality?

Dissolvable Supports:

Dissolvable supports are a huge deal for me. I'm happy to wait a few months for this ability but its definitely something that I'm going to be very interested in and I would be disappointed if it were not possible. I know that the UM2 will be getting dual extrusion early 2015 which I am happy to wait for.

Click & Print:

I know that this isn't entirely realistic and that there will likely be various issue that I need to address. I would however prefer something that I don't have to fuss over every time I use it.

Sound:

Being able to run this at night in an apartment without bothering the neighbours or myself sleeping in the next room is a must.

Assembly:

I'm fairly experienced at putting stuff together, I have done my fair share of keyboards, electronics, RC cars and planes so I'm not really worried about the difficulty. In fact, I feel sure that I would enjoy the process. I assume it's pretty foolproof as well, it would be a shame to have lesser print quality due to some foolish assembly mistake.

Upgrades:

The 'more hackable' nature of the UM+ appeals to me as well. The idea that future upgrades might be more available on one platform than the other is something that could sway me in either direction.

Future:

The last question on my mind is what the future holds. Based on some of the conversation in here I get the feeling that a UM3 some time in early 2015 might not be a completely unrealistic proposition. If there is a UM3 just around the corner then I might be more inclined to wait or go with the UM1.

I had been worrying over things like heated beds and dual extrusion but I now the heated bed issue is moot and the dual extrusion one should be resolved by early next year I'm less worried on that front.

Lead Time:

The last thing is that if I order a UM+ now, I might be waiting 6 weeks for it to arrive. This means that it'll be pushing December when it gets here which doesn't give me much time to print all the Christmas presents I'm planning on :p

Any feedback on any of these points would be appreciated. I'm hovering over the buy button as I type this but I do have a habit of making impulse purchases and this one is a little too big to not think over carefully.

Thanks for you time,

mjmdavis

 

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Because you aren't afraid to build it, definitely get the UMO+. The quality is now the same. The advantage of the UM2 is that it is quieter (like a guitar or violin, wood makes a great sound board) and most people think it's prettier and it's got those lights.

The quality of prints is the same. The build volume is only slightly larger on the UM2. Homing is also nicer on the UM2 but not a big factor either way (on the UMO it makes more of a mess on the nozzle tip when it starts a new print but I just pull it off with my fingers - I know I could burn myself but I haven't yet).

More important, dual extrusion is available now for UMO but for UM2 it is "first quarter 2015" meaning, what, March? Plus it will probably be pricey and complicated and may take a while to fill all the orders and might have a few bugs to workout so maybe next summer is more reasonable? I don't know.

If you break something on the UMO+ you will already know how to fix it! You won't worry so much about warranties if the fix is simple (and it usually is!). And other nice things - like you can get a different nozzle diameter (wonderful thing) for the UMO for 5 euros (includes shipping). For UM2 it's more like 35 (??) euros plus maybe another 30 euros shipping? I forget the price but you can find it on the website. But for the UM2 you can only get one nozzle hole diameter so then you need a machinist to modify it for you. In other words the parts are a little more compatible with other reprap like printers out there so there's more parts available from alternate suppliers.

Lastly I don't know what the lead time is for UM2 but I heard it was down to 2 weeks. So don't let lead time be a strong factor in your decision. I could be wrong! Plus it's in stock for many resellers. There is a reseller in Germany but I forget the name of it. They will tell you if it is in stock and you get customer service from Ultimaker even though you buy through local reseller.

 

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Is the print quality really the same now? I had that impression based on the specs but I wasn't sure. I can imagine that there would be stability problems with the wood but perhaps I'm getting too imaginative.

Doesn't the UM2 have a higher potential print speed?

Shipping within Europe isn't really a big deal. One of the many advantages of the EU :p. The lead time is kind of a downer though. Waiting 6 weeks for a UM+ or waiting 1 week for a UM2... Patience is a virtue I am working to improve on.

Thanks for the feedback, it seems that my need for instant gratification might have to be suppressed for now :).

 

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I only have the UM1, so cant say much about it in terms of "UM1+ vs. UM2", but Im also guessing that very very few people own both...

From what I can gather from your requirements, your real choice is actually between the UM2 and a modified UM1+... Let me comment on each part from my point of view...

- Quality... the most often asked, and hardest to answer, question of all things 3D print related... In my experience, a million things, other than the machine specs have an influence in the printed outcome... Quality takes trial and error, reading, learning, doing, etc... you being here on the forum doing your research, is a good start...

To get back to the question, I see absolutely no reason why the UM1+ should not be able to achieve the same quality outcome as the UM2... with mods, maybe even better.

- Dissolvable supports... Regardless of how you put it, this would need dual extrusion... As you mention yourself, this is not yet officially available for the UM2...

I have also yet to see it actually work properly... I think you are much better off learning to do regular, easily removeable support in the same material as the one you print in.

This forum has some great resources for learning about doing these in eg. meshmixer.

- Click and print... I would say that the sheer fact that the UM1 is in kit form, and the UM2 is not, makes the UM2 the "winner"... Not only because you will not have to first assemble the UM2, but also because its pre-assembled nature also means pre-adjusted, pre-configured, etc.

- Noise on the UM1 (and thereby also the UM1+), is definitely more than on the UM2, and something you have to (but also can) do something about yourself... You can read through this topic to learn more:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/4479-sound-dampening-ultimaker-original/?p=37897

- Assembly of the UM1 is not a problem, especially from what I can tell from your described background...

It has often been compared to assembling a large Ikea furniture (with lots of drawers, hinges, lights etc).... If something seems off, you just go to these forums and you fix it...

- Upgrades... The hackable nature of the UM1 is definately a plus, if you are into that sort of thing...

By now these forums have a ton of resources for all manner of hacks and upgrades (see the modifications and hacks section), naturally, as time passes, more and more things will show up for the UM2 as well, and have indeed already done so with eg. the many new feeder designs.

The thing is that the UM2 initially looks prettier, and more as a regular consumer product, which makes new owners less reluctant to hack it up and mod it, as machines get older, this will change...

-UM3 just around the corner sounds unlikely to me... The UM2 is still not that old, Ultimaker have spend some time since that on developing the HB kit for the UM1, and you mention yourself, the dual extruder kit for the UM2...

Another thing with tech like this, is that you have to jump sometime... Keep waiting for the next, better version to come out... you can wait forever.

- I know nothing about lead times, other than that they were horrible (along with the customer support when people tried to find out what was going on with their printers and money) some months back.

If you decide on the UM2, I would consider a reseller that has stock... I think you have to go with Ultimaker themselves to get the best deal with the UM1+ incl HB, doodle 3detc.

Not even sure if there are any resellers of the + yet...

Those were my inputs, surely there are people out there with more, maybe even some who disagree, but hopefully they are of use to you

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I have only 2 things to add:

-Isn't it so that the UMO+ has the UM2 electronics? Making it as quiet as the UM2 itself?

-Search the forums for a topic regarding Heated Bed and Dual extrusion concerning power. I believe the statement was it was best to get a UMO with Heated Bed kit(Not UMO+ electronics!!!), as this would allow you to do both heated bed and dual extrusion with 2 different power supplies. The new electronics won't allow that if I'm correct. So if you need both, you are in for a tough choice!

Hm, they do still sell the UMO :) It's kinda strange though, that you wouldn't be able to use the better electronics version for both HB and DE, but I could be wrong on that. Daid? Any comment on that?

 

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Hi and welcome!

I have all 3 printers at the moment. UMO, UMO+ and UM2.

Print quality:

Quality is very good on all 3 printers. Even though I have the UM2, I don't hesitate to print a part on the UMO that would assemble into one piece. But there is a slight quality advantage on the UM2. particularly on filling the top surface. Sometimes my UMO looks slightly under extruded on the top surface even when it's filled in nicely at the bottom. The edge quality is just as good though (which is the most important)

The 2 fans on the UM2 gives it an advantage on overhang quality. For the UMO(+) you will need to sometimes orient your part so that the detail side is on the fan side to ensure that it'll come out nice and sharp. Or add a fan on the right side, or make a cyclone fan shroud. (but we're talking stock machines here!)

In general, the UM2 is much easier to achieve good quality prints. While the UMOs are fully capable of doing so, it requires a little bit more finessing in my experience.

Click and print:

The UM2 is the only one I would consider close to click and print. Once dialed in, it truely is click and print. (not that nothing will go wrong down the road, but while it works it works great). It's starts and stops retract and extrude the right amount of filament. Glass plate heats up automatically, and first layer PLA on clean glass is almost always perfect. I set a file and just hit go on my UM2.

In contrast, UMO+ requires a little bit more attention per-print. You need to pre-heat, and then manually prime the extruder by turning the extrude knob and then hit go once heated. Not quite as automatic as UM2. But still not bad!

UM1 is the least so. There is tape you constantly have to worry about. It rips when you take your part off, it sometimes doesn't stick properly or too well. It is usually required to watch the first layer go down on the UMO to ensure the print will be successful. Preheat and prime is required as well, but it's a lot faster than the UMO+ and UM2 because you don't need to wait for the bed to heat up. There are advantages to printing on tape on occasion.

UM2 is the quietest as everyone has already stated. Especially the retraction sequence. I would have trouble sleeping with a printer going on in the same room. (and I've tried both UM and UM2.) Next room is ok.

You will learn a TON if you assemble your own. I'm not a hardware savvy person, and I put together the UMO. It's not too hard, instructions are clear and you only need a screwdriver that's provided pretty much. But the troubleshooting knowledge you will gain from assembling yourself will save you so much headache in the future. UM2 works in very similar ways to the UMO so if you put one together you'll know how they all work.

I would say if you have the monies get a UM2, if you wanna save some bucks and learn some things, build a UMO+. both are capable of really nice quality prints. UM2 is just easier in every way, and looks like a stormtrooper.

 

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I am another UMO owner and have just bought the heatbed upgrade - fantastic printer (I have 2 :)) but I don't think it would be great for an apartment - they are noisy ..... as a printer I like the noise, but when I have it at home I move it around the house depending on whether people are sleeping or watching TV etc - you cannot sit in the same room. And bear in mind that most prints are in the multiple hours (6-12)

Dual extrusion with supports - I have not yet seen this successfully achieved - in fact I do not see many people yet using dual - and personally only have one desire - to mix solid and rubber, but I have only seen the lulzbot do this successfully.

If you dropped that from your wish list the UM2 would be the only answer - UM+ has to mod to do dual and heatbed - so you have dual, no heatbed on the UMO, heatbed and single on the UM+ or heatbed and single on the UM2 - or mod the UM+ with PS for dual, or Mod the UMO dual with an external heatbed - I want everything and I would do none of these :)

I thought of my wish list and after a year of pushing my UMO's am still discovering what PLA can do (though I do use XT a lot) have just started playing with ninjaflex (on a UMO) but love being able to drill out nozzles (I have 8) and am about to upgrade one of them to heatbed (for XT)

James

 

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Dual extrusion with supports - I have not yet seen this successfully achieved - in fact I do not see many people yet using dual - and personally only have one desire - to mix solid and rubber, but I have only seen the lulzbot do this successfully.

 

IMHO there are indeed exactly these two applications which are worth running a dual extruder setup. However, both of them need a slicer software which is capable to have different settings for the two extruders such as infill percentage, print speed, retraction on/off etc. Cura is not yet there. The pink unicorn edition will be able to do this most probably. But this piece of software will take some time to be finished. Until then one has to use e.g. Slic3r. That's maybe the reason why not many people are using dual extrusion on their UMOs.

@mjmdavis: Before you decide for an UM2 you have to know that the present UM2 hotend is optimized for printing PLA. To my personal experience the quality of PET-prints (including various materials like XT, PET+,...) is better on an UMO. I guess it is due to the higher heat capacity of the UMO hotend which results in a more stable temperature.

 

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Lastly I don't know what the lead time is for UM2 but I heard it was down to 2 weeks. So don't let lead time be a strong factor in your decision. I could be wrong! Plus it's in stock for many resellers. There is a reseller in Germany but I forget the name of it. They will tell you if it is in stock and you get customer service from Ultimaker even though you buy through local reseller.

 

The reseller is iGo3D and their 6-8 weeks for the UM+.

 

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Thanks for all the feedback.

I have to say that the breadth of opinion hasn't exactly helped me make a decision :p.

I'm going to have to think about it a little more before I pull the trigger. There are so many factors to consider that I don't think there is one best choice.

Do the UM+ electronics make it as quiet as the UM2?

Is the UM2 hotend really PLA optimised? That doesn't seem to make sense considering the heated bed.

Crap, I'm still torn.

 

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Do the UM+ electronics make it as quiet as the UM2?

Is the UM2 hotend really PLA optimised? That doesn't seem to make sense considering the heated bed.

 

Being optimized doesn't mean it does not work with other materials. It just works best with PLA.

The heated bed makes a lot of sense also for PLA. Surely you can print PLA w/o heated bed, but you certainly can print it easier with a heated bed... :-P

Although I've no first hand experience with the UMO+, I don't expect it to be as quiet as the UM2 due to the still wooden frame. It will be somewhere in between the UMO and the UM2...

 

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Most of the noise on the UMO is *not* from the electronics, so: No, the UM2 is still quieter than the UM+. Most of the noise is from the steppers vibrating wood (think quitar, or violin). On the UM2 the steppers vibrate the dibond which is much quieter. I have a video comparing the volume of the two. Some UMO have an extremely loud electronics cooling fan (not problem for UM+). Some UM2 have extremely loud 3rd print head fan (not me). Both of my machines have quiet fans and the fans are not noticeable in the video I don't think:

 

 

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