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Print more than 260ºC with a UM2.

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Hello everybody,

I'm trying to compilate as much information as I can in order to print more than 260ºC with a UM2.

Why?

To print with filaments like Nylon. PA6, Tritan, some polycarbonates, etc... that can be used to make extremely resistant pieces, printing temperature between 265º and 280º...UPS!

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130613-new-nylon-filament-for-3d-printers-made-in-italy.html

http://taulman3d.com/tritan-spec.html

 

According to the information than I have, it is possible if:

1-Changing the PTFE coupler (that resists until 260ºC) for an insulating material more heat resistant.

 

2-Modifying the firmware.

According to this method

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/4316-higher-nozzle-temperature/page-2

 

Solutions:

1- for coupler I found a material, the CB76 consistingin ceramics, 1260º resistant that can be machined with conventionnal tools.

http://www.carbosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf_refractory.pdf

I've order a sample of this material in order to make a coupler.

 

2- The firmware.

I've downloaded the softwares, I can edit the firmware, but I would like to have an expert advice in this field.

The smallest mistake modifying the parameters could damage the printer.

This is why I'm looking for anybody that could be interested in this post or about further information.

 

PT100 sensor works until 400ºC!

Changing the firmware maximun temperature is fully possible to go higher, under condition of changing the coupler.

https://github.com/Ultimaker/Ultimaker2/blob/master/1185_PT100_B_sensor_%28x1%29/B1185-B2P-A.pdf

 

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2- The firmware.

I've downloaded the softwares, I can edit the firmware, but I would like to have an expert advice in this field.

The smallest mistake modifying the parameters could damage the printer.

This is why I'm looking for anybody that could be interested in this post or about further information.

 

Think I'm the most expert-expert you can get on this field right now.

You need the Arduino environment.

You need the sources from: https://github.com/Ultimaker/Ultimaker2Marlin

You need to adjust the HEATER_0_MAXTEMP in Configuration.h

You need to modify C:\arduino-1.0.3\libraries\Wire\utility\twi.c (remove the file, or remove the SIGNAL(TWI_vect) function at the end of the file) or else the UM2 firmware will not compile.

And that's it. Note that it's hard to damage the UM2, except for the hotend. Which is exactly the part you want to adjust beyond the safe operating range.

 

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I'm printing Polycarbonat with 280°C with only the software change. No problem so far. I took the nose apart to take a look at the insulator and didn't see anything worrisome.

 

I think either you are very lucky or I'm very unlucky. I'm printing ABS at 260C and I've lost 2 temperature sensors and 3 PTFE isolators.

Have you closed your chamber somehow? I have been under impression PC would warp quite a bit if you don't manage the temperature in your printing chamber.

 

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I've printed nylon PA6 just fine at 260C on the UM2. With fans off. If I print at 240C I get layer adhesion issues but at 260C PA6 is very very strong. I've printed dozens of parts - most of them less than 70mm across. I did strength tests here (PA6 is very strong):

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7575-strength-of-different-filaments/

I got my PA6 from here:

http://fbrc8.com/

I think ceramic is a bad material as I think melted plastics will mostly stick to it although you can try coating it with oil. I think machining PEET might be a better idea although doesn't that melt at similar temps? UM is working on an all metal hot end but it could take years for that to be available...

 

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I've printed nylon PA6 just fine at 260C on the UM2. With fans off. If I print at 240C I get layer adhesion issues but at 260C PA6 is very very strong.

[...]

I think ceramic is a bad material as I think melted plastics will mostly stick to it although you can try coating it with oil. I think machining PEET might be a better idea although doesn't that melt at similar temps? UM is working on an all metal hot end but it could take years for that to be available...

 

As printing material ABS serves my needs quite well - the other materials (of UM2) are letting me down :)

I'm now trying my luck with Vespel in the isolator:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7024-teflon-spacer-replacement/?p=71524

ABS seems to print OK, now testing with PLA. Also, durability testing is still needed.

 

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Hello everybody,

Thank you very much for your quick answers! they are really interesting!

I'm gonna try to answer everybody :).

@ Dim3nsioneer @ 3Poro

Thanks for your answer. Indeed CB76 material made of ceramic is a porour material and the filament can hook.

By contrast Vespel materiel is very interesting.

• Superior toughness

• Higher temperature capabilities

• Increased strength

• Improved chemical resistance

Low friction• Minimum wear :)

• Excellent electrical properties

• Low thermal and electrical conductivity

Operating temperatures for Vespel®ST can range up to 288°C (550°F)*

with excursions to more than 482°C (900°F). They do not melt at any temperature

http://www2.dupont.com/Vespel/en_US/assets/downloads/vespel_s/H74544.pdf

With standard metal-working equipment, you can machine VESPEL

http://www2.dupont.com/Vespel/en_US/assets/downloads/vespel_s/233633a.pdf

I'm going to order a sample and make a coupler.

Print 3D

I have download the firmware and when I edit the HEATER_0_MAXTEMP parameter I find 275 !!!!

Does this mean that the firmware is already programmed to print at 275ºC ????

Should we just change it to 280 in order to print at 280ºC????

 

// When temperature exceeds max temp, your heater will be switched off.

// This feature exists to protect your hotend from overheating accidentally, but *NOT* from thermistor short/failure!

// You should use MINTEMP for thermistor short/failure protection.

#define HEATER_0_MAXTEMP 275

#define HEATER_1_MAXTEMP 275

#define HEATER_2_MAXTEMP 275

#define BED_MAXTEMP 200

Thank you for the information.

This Nylon PA6 is this more rigid than Taulman 618 ???

 

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Print 3D

I have download the firmware and when I edit the HEATER_0_MAXTEMP parameter I find 275 !!!!

Does this mean that the firmware is already programmed to print at 275ºC ????

Should we just change it to 280 in order to print at 280ºC????

 

No, the limit in the menus is set 15C below the limit you configure there. That is the "hard shutoff" limit, it the temperature goes beyond that, it will instantly stop the printer and display an error. This temperature is higher then the operating temperature to account for temperature swings.

 

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@Daid

Hi Daid, thank you for your advice.

I do not control the C language

I tried to delete the file twi.c but I get an error to compile the firmware.

This is what I find when I am looking to code (TWI_vect).

Which part of the code I have to eliminate?

I have version Arduino 1.06

// update twi state

twi_state = TWI_READY;

}

ISR(TWI_vect)

{

switch(TW_STATUS){

// All Master

case TW_START: // sent start condition

case TW_REP_START: // sent repeated start condition

// copy device address and r/w bit to output register and ack

TWDR = twi_slarw;

twi_reply(1);

break;

 

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Am I missing something? Have you guys found a magical fairy that sells Vespel at prices you would normally see on planet earth? Are you married to a DuPont engineer and get free samples? This stuff is outrageous! I think silver, pound for pound, is cheaper....

I'd really like to turn one, any links to small rods that I won't have to sell my first born to buy?

 

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I think silver, pound for pound, is cheaper....

 

Thinking of what I paid, gold is cheaper - pound for pound... Fortunately Vespel's density is lower :)

If you are located in the US, you can get small pieces of Vespel with (more or less) reasonable cost:

http://www.amazon.com/Vespel-Round-Opaque-Diameter-Length/dp/B00FKK3LFG/

I have seen lower prices on Ebay, but I wouldn't dare to order Vespel from some no-name seller - you probably get something "equal" instead.

 

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@Solid Print 3D

Indeed the price of this material is excessif. :(

Luckily we only need a small amount of material to fabricate a coupler.

In the longer term it is more profitable than replacing a defective coupler. .

Can you help me to compile the firmware?

I do not understand how to modify the file twi.c

 

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UP!!

@Daid

Hi Daid, thank you for your advice.

I do not control the C language

I tried to delete the file twi.c but I get an error to compile the firmware.

This is what I find when I am looking to code (TWI_vect).

Which part of the code I have to eliminate?

I have version Arduino 1.06

// update twi state

twi_state = TWI_READY;

}

ISR(TWI_vect)

{

switch(TW_STATUS){

// All Master

case TW_START: // sent start condition

case TW_REP_START: // sent repeated start condition

// copy device address and r/w bit to output register and ack

TWDR = twi_slarw;

twi_reply(1);

break;

 

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Daid doesn't like to answer questions from programmers if they don't seem to understand what they are doing. Maybe because it would take hours to explain.

Why do you want to delete a module? "ISR" stands for "interrupt service routine" and is very likely code that you do not want to touch. I thought you simply wanted to change the upper limits? Daid explained how to earlier.

As far as compiling the code here is my standard post:

Basically you download and install arduino ide:

http://arduino.cc/en/main/software

Then copy the sanguino software as explained in README file. Open Marlin.ino file in Arduino IDE by double clicking it (not pde file as stated in README - I think that's old). Select board as "Mega 2560" as explained in README file. Go to "file" "preferences" and select "verbose output" so you can find your hex file. Then build it by clicking the check box in the upper left corner. At the bottom you will see it compiling Marlin. At the end of this it says where the hex file is. If you are currently connected to your UM through USB you can just click "file" "upload" and you are done! But you should locate that hex file and save it somewhere along with the Configuration.h file used to create it so you can recreate the same version with maybe one change. Also you can upload the hex file using Cura in expert menu.

Alternatively you can build Marlin with somewhat more detailed step by step instructions the command line way (which I don't prefer):

http://www.extrudable.me/2013/05/03/building-marlin-from-scratch/

 

 

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This Nylon PA6 is this more rigid than Taulman 618 ???

 

Yes. But it's still not as rigid as PLA so therefore not rigid enough for building the arms in my quadcopter (I want to make them very thin). Hardness/flexibility is usually measured by something called "young's modulus"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_modulus

The larger the number, the stiffer the material. It doesn't tell you the breaking point - just flexibility.

Taulman publishes this information on it's website:

KPSI Material

1.5-14 Rubber (from wikipedia)

22 Taulman 618

26 Taulman bridge

30 Taulman 645

50 PA6 (George's estimate - pretty confident that it is higher than 645 and lower than PETT)

53 Taulman Tritan

80 Taulman t-glase (PETT, not nylon)

>390 PLA (from wikipedia)

1.6k Oak wood

29k Steel

edit: I made a mistake with the tritan - it's 53, not 7! Plus later I post a better table than the one above.

 

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It is right that says Daid !! ;)

> You need to modify C:\arduino-1.0.3\libraries\Wire\utility\twi.c (remove the file, or remove the SIGNAL(TWI_vect) function at the end of the file) or else the UM2 firmware will not compile.

 

I have a compilation error with twi.c. LIBRARY

I follow all the steps exactly and finally got this compilation error.

Error compiling!

Wire\utility\twi.c.o: In function `__vector_39':

C:\3DPRINTER\arduino-1.0.3\libraries\Wire\utility/twi.c:364: multiple definition of `__vector_39'

UltiLCD2_low_lib.cpp.o:C:\Users\YO\AppData\Local\Temp\build8630848773746948483.tmp/UltiLCD2_low_lib.cpp:181: first defined here

c:/3dprinter/arduino-1.0.3/hardware/tools/avr/bin/../lib/gcc/avr/4.3.2/../../../../avr/bin/ld.exe: Disabling relaxation: it will not work with multiple definitions

If I delete or modify the library twi.c I have another kind of compilation error.

Note that does not exist in Library twi.c SIGNAL (TWI_vect) fuction

but ISR (TWI_vect) fuction

Error compiling!

Wire\Wire.cpp.o: In function `TwoWire::write(unsigned char const*, unsigned int)':

C:\3DPRINTER\arduino-1.0.3\libraries\Wire/Wire.cpp:195: undefined reference to `twi_transmit'

Wire\Wire.cpp.o: In function `TwoWire::write(unsigned char)':

C:\3DPRINTER\arduino-1.0.3\libraries\Wire/Wire.cpp:177: undefined reference to `twi_transmit'

It is possible that these steps works with the Ultimaker firmware, but with the ultimaker2

I think there is something missing ???

 

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Taulman publishes this information on it's website:

KPSI Material

1.5-14 Rubber (from wikipedia)

7 Taulman Tritan

22 Taulman 618

26 Taulman bridge

30 Taulman 645

50 PA6 (George's estimate - pretty confident that it is higher than 645 and lower than PETT)

80 Taulman t-glase (PETT, not nylon)

>390 PLA (from wikipedia)

1.6k Oak wood

29k Steel

 

Very interesting numbers! Any clue about numbers for ABS and XT?

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IMHO, changing the upper limit of the temperature is too complicated. While I understand the need for a "child lock", making unlocking too tricky kicks back. If I had a need to change the upper limit, I would probably add a resistor in parallel with the Pt100 temperature sensor. That would tweak the temperature scale and I would need to use some lookup table to understand what "200C" actually means. In any case, less hassle than tweaking the firmware and reapplying the change in case of new firmware version coming out - if I don't need to master the process for other reasons.

Maybe it would be possible to set the temperature limit in G-code, the same way as changing of feeder stepper motor current?

 

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ABS is more flexible than PLA and also not as strong as PLA. See my strength tests here:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7575-strength-of-different-filaments/

Here's a more complete table with ABS added and my measurements added (I need to modify my tests now that I understand how I should be doing it). Also I rechecked the numbers more carefully against real data to calibrate my data. There's still quite a bit of discrepancy between what I measure and what is expected so I'm going to have to come up with a better test I suppose.

KPSI Material

1.5-14 Rubber (from wikipedia)

2.5 Ninjaflex (George tested)

10 Taulman PCTPE

22 Taulman 618

26 Taulman bridge

30 Taulman 645

53 Taulman Tritan

60 PA6 (George's estimate - pretty confident that it is higher than 645)

80 Taulman t-glase (PETT, not nylon)

120 ABS (my measurement - not reliable)

300 PLA (my measurement - not reliable)

300 ABS (from matbase.com)

311 ABS (http://atelje-3d-print.eu/Filaments'>http://atelje-3d-print.eu/Filaments'>http://atelje-3d-print.eu/Filaments'>http://atelje-3d-print.eu/Filaments)

480 PLA ((http://atelje-3d-print.eu/Filaments)

>390 PLA (from wikipedia)

1600 Oak wood

29000 Steel

edit: I made a mistake with the tritan - it's 53, not 7!

 

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IMHO, changing the upper limit of the temperature is too complicated.

 

Yes, I agree.

Sometimes I think you guys with mad programming skills are part of some secret organization, like the Illuminati, giving out just enough information to confuse the hell out of a non programmer, thereby ensuring the secret art of firmware programming remains a hidden art :p

If I'm lucky, one day, someone will post a nice, step-by-step, tutorial, written for guys like me

 

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Now I can compile the firmware for Ultimaker2 !!! :lol:

Thanks Daid !!!!

Works following the steps Daid says but with the Arduino version 023

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/OldSoftwareReleases

At the end of the compilation we can read the path of the Hex file:

example

C: Users (user name) AppData Local Temp build2111424711106922953.tmp Marlin.cpp.hex

Note: To delete data lines twi.c file, download Context free software, in google.

 

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As printing material ABS serves my needs quite well - the other materials (of UM2) are letting me down :)

I'm now trying my luck with Vespel in the isolator:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7024-teflon-spacer-replacement/?p=71524

ABS seems to print OK, now testing with PLA. Also, durability testing is still needed.

 

@3Poro

hello!

Thanks for your information :)

Where did you found the vespel 1/4 "diameter part, to make your mixed vespel ptfe coupler?

 

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