Jump to content
UltiMaker Community of 3D Printing Experts

Dual Extrusion Queries


Recommended Posts

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

very interesting, that nearly no replies are coming if one asks for special things bout UM2 double extruder. Ok I see, nobody is running one cause commercial versions still don't exist. I wonder if a tinkerer got something to run yet.... UM staff is telling that there is some progress and they plan to release something in 1stQ15. We hope the best....

 

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    Nobody likes waiting. But i prefer it over buying something that does not work... I say let them thorowly test... we can imagine what would happen with the um support desk otherwise....

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    I have the same feeling, having seen some dual extrusion printers in action like the makerbot replicator 2x and seeing the result convinced me that it's better to wait for something that actually works flawlessly instead of having it quicker and work partially.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    Soluble support material. Currently there are 2 real options that people are trying to use:

    1) PVA

    2) HIPS

    Let me talk about HIPS first. First of, it's a styrene. Printing it gives off styrene gas during printing. Wikipedia can fill you on in the details of that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styrene#Health_effects

    Limonene needs to be used to disolve HIPS after printing. Which is a biological turpentine. Nasty stuff that needs special storage and special handling.

    So. HIPS? Not really something we to do as Ultimaker, as we like our customers healthy.

    PVA. Great on paper. As it dissolves in water. No nasty chemicals. Prints nice. Sticks well to PLA.

    However. 2 problems.

    Problem 1 "Crosslinking". This is the effect where PVA turns into carbon chains at temperatures. PVA seems to degrade and the older it is, the easier it crosslinks into carbon, blocking your nozzle. Pretty much requiring you to drill out the nozzle or buy a new one. Pretty annoying, as we haven't found the parameters yet which cause this. Rolls that print fine the first day, cause problems the next day. Right now, it's pretty much "once you get it out of the bag, you have 12 hours, after that it's danger material".

    Problem 2. This stuff is soft at low temperatures. 35C it's soft. With the feeder wheel reaching 35-40C during normal operation, the PVA grinds very easy on retractions.

    Bonus solution:

    PLA does get soft at 100C. So if we would have a 2nd material that is still 100% stiff at 100C you could use PLA as support and the other material as build material. This is just an idea that we haven't tested yet.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    Interesting thanks for the information Daid.

    So basically before even wanting to have dual extrusion (soluble supports is the only real utility for me), we have to wait for someone to develop a reliable and usable soluble material... Colorfabb maybe? :mrgreen: Or is Ultimaker also doing research on soluble materials?

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    Or is Ultimaker also doing research on soluble materials?

     

    Where did you think the above information came from? Yes. We're looking into this. It's the main use for dual-extrusion right now. But we haven't solved the problem. (We are working with 3th parties, but sharing who those are isn't my place to do so)

    Another use for dual-extrusion could be mixing 2 different materials in 1 print. Flexable materials could be interesting. But what I really hope for (but haven't seen yet) is a properly conducting filament. Not the 10kOhm/cm material that you can get right now. As a well conducting material would make 3D circuits possible. The material available right now can only be used for touch-sensing goals.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    I think it will take quite some time before we'll see "conductive enough" filaments - unfortunately. Until then we'll have to stick to copper paint (http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/3803-ultimaker-2-dual-extrusion/?p=73337). Especially under-extrusion problems and conductive filament don't really play well together.

    How about using polycarbonate, PLA and a pressure cooker? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_cooking

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    Soluble support material. Currently there are 2 real options that people are trying to use:

    1) PVA

     

    Are you allowed to tell with which parameters you printed the PVA?

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    Are you allowed to tell with which parameters you printed the PVA?

     

    Single extrusion. UM2. Tried various temperatures, depending on the type of PVA (we got different possible suppliers, which need different settings). I didn't do most of the tests, so I do not know the exact details, but I know various different settings where tried. These where not simple one off tests, quite extensive testing has been done, and no solution for the crosslinking problem has been found by varying the settings.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    T0=170°C?, Tbed=60°C? That's about it, isn't it?

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Posted · Dual Extrusion Queries

    T0=170°C?, Tbed=60°C? That's about it, isn't it?

    If that is what the supplier recommends, most likely, yes. PVA is tricky material, and I would regard it as highly experimental if you have some. So you will have to play with it to find the proper settings. Start with what the supplier recommends and go from there. But I cannot say "if you use settings X it will print nice"

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now
    • Our picks

      • UltiMaker Cura 5.3 stable released
        In this stable release, Cura 5.3 achieves yet another huge leap forward in 3D printing thanks to material interlocking! As well as introducing an expanded recommended print settings menu and lots of print quality improvements. Not to mention, a whole bunch of new printer profiles for non-UltiMaker printers!
          • Thanks
          • Like
        • 24 replies
      • Here it is. The new UltiMaker S7
        The UltiMaker S7 is built on the success of the UltiMaker S5 and its design decisions were heavily based on feedback from customers.
         
         
        So what’s new?
        The obvious change is the S7’s height. It now includes an integrated Air Manager. This filters the exhaust air of every print and also improves build temperature stability. To further enclose the build chamber the S7 only has one magnetically latched door.
         
        The build stack has also been completely redesigned. A PEI-coated flexible steel build plate makes a big difference to productivity. Not only do you not need tools to pop a printed part off. But we also don’t recommend using or adhesion structures for UltiMaker materials (except PC, because...it’s PC). Along with that, 4 pins and 25 magnets make it easy to replace the flex plate perfectly – even with one hand.
         
        The re-engineered print head has an inductive sensor which reduces noise when probing the build plate. This effectively makes it much harder to not achieve a perfect first layer, improving overall print success. We also reversed the front fan direction (fewer plastic hairs, less maintenance), made the print core door magnets stronger, and add a sensor that helps avoid flooding.
         

         
        The UltiMaker S7 also includes quality of life improvements:
        Reliable bed tilt compensation (no more thumbscrews) 2.4 and 5 GHz Wi-Fi A 1080p camera (mounted higher for a better view) Compatibility with 280+ Marketplace materials Compatibility with S5 project files (no reslicing needed) And a whole lot more  
        Curious to see the S7 in action?
        We’re hosting a free tech demo on February 7.
        It will be live and you can ask any questions to our CTO, Miguel Calvo.
        Register here for the Webinar
          • Like
        • 18 replies
      • UltiMaker Cura Alpha 🎄 Tree Support Spotlight 🎄
        Are you a fan of tree support, but dislike the removal process and the amount of filament it uses? Then we would like to invite you to try this special release of UltiMaker Cura. Brought to you by our special community contributor @thomasrahm
         
        We generated a special version of Cura 5.2 called 5.3.0 Alpha + Xmas. The only changes we introduced compared to UltiMaker Cura 5.2.1 are those which are needed for the new supports. So keep in mind, this is not a sneak peek for Cura 5.3 (there are some really cool new features coming up) but a spotlight release highlighting this new version of tree supports.  
          • Like
        • 22 replies
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...