cloakfiend
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Posts posted by cloakfiend
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Lol, ill clean up the model and post it on youmagine later, i'm sure someone will make a coat hanger or shower head out of it....
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ok just sprayed it black and im going to leave it, still see a few crack lines i thought i could get away with ans spray can was running out but it will do. i took the photo against my ipad with a blue screen and a see through red cigarette lighter held up against the flash light on my phone, ghetto style, lol, looks ok though.
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true im not sure what you mean, but i was just saying that when i use the setting at shell top/bot 1.2 everything prints fine regardless of actual shell thickness. ill go now, lol.
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Yes real top bottom values would be nice, but I'm quite happy with the thickness of 1.2, nice and sturdy and you don't need to bother with infill as a result, so yes this is an issue but one I stopped caring about once thicker top bot solved all my issues. but yes something is clearly wrong there. It think it also depends on the model but thats just a guess.
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Lol, it looks real bad but its mainly smooth and you must remember you wont see any of it if all goes well, and its very thin so I'm very happy with it, but I doubt if any of what you recommended would have helped apart from the infill, but i don't bother anymore with infill as caving in generally never happens (it did this time as i dipped it twice in separate halves so i think it had issues evaporating and also when i forced it to straighten out the warping with heavy books so the pressure of it trying to bend may have transferred to the head?) . The print was doomed from layer 37 onwards anyway due to an issue in cura, and would have only added more time if i added infill to the print which im trying to avoid. Im learning this whole filler and sanding game, i think its a good skill to have to be able to perfectly smooth out any surface blended with another.
I have only spent like 20-30 mins sanding and filling in total so its not that bad, as I often add tiny bits but then have to wait for it to dry before i sand it. I have never done this before so out of curiosity i thought id see first hand how difficult it was to smooth out cracks and imperfections with filler in a way that was perfect and you couldn't tell like car body repairs.
I've achieved that now, so its time for the final coat and then to paint the detail. The pics are just an illustrative guide highlighting the issues with acetoning models that have either been printed badly or at too low temps, or with filament that doesn't play so well with acetone or with models that the layers haven't bonded that well. And issues after intial spray undercoats.
Just wanted to inform people of a few pitfalls in this whole acetone business, but no means a deal breaker, but i'm just reporting that Colorfabb PLA is more prone to this stuff than UM PLA. I've yet to try faberdashery, might get that next for a test along with my fave UM blue....
if i was to print it again i need to straighten out the base and a few more things. I really cant be bothered printing it out again. I've got a bigger HR giger style job tokeep me busy with in the meantime anyway. I accept the risks that occur when printing with no infill due to the much quicker print times and zero quality loss issues, and of course savings on the filament, this is the only time things have gone so drastically wrong for me, but again, 2nd play with zbrush so im sure the topology is awful and also the import to cura went wrong so two things to worry about there. Id rather learn on the next model i make than printing out the same one over and over.
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I print EVERYTHING with top bottom 1.2, as I found that 0.8 just didn't cut it and i would often have many holes and incomplete surfaces. If I want it thinner then I would model it thinner and print 1.2 shell anyways knowing that my walls aren't even that thick and it would print at the size of the model rather than shell size.
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I have to say at this point i feel sorry for anyone who regularly covers their objects in filler and then sands them down after. I never did it before and i got to be honest i hate doing it. it wastes so much time, paintng waiting to dry filler more waiting then sanding more filler then waiting and sanding, its never ending if you want a good result and im only doing it on this model as it is a salvage job due to the many problems i had with it. Normally it would be the usual 5 mins of sanding then into the acetone and job done!
Filler should only really be used in emergencies when doing this acetone business. I posted more pics to highlight the cracking and further splitting on acetoned Colorfabb PLA after a primer coat. This can and usually happens, but not so badly, this split where i paused it i think? So more filler and sanding was needed.....boring. Ill just post the next pic when its finished. Its looking more and more likely I'll be switching to UM PLA if this continues to persist, or I have a bad batch of Colorfabb? who knows.... may try printing at 210 instead of 208, it might help. we'll see...
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To be honest i don't think anyone really knows anything about these printers for certain from what ive read, and as with many things theres more more than one way to skin a cat. Nothing is guaranteed with these printers, so all those hoping to just get instructions and follow them and have a perfect amazing model exactly the way they expected it to look is delusional, you can get close to what you expect but you also have to expect the unexpected. But thats just my opinion. If they were perfect we wouldn't need this forum or any extra guidance what so ever.
I understand his complaint. but disagree with the complaint itself. And blaming a reseller for a product they don't manufacture is also wrong in my opinion. Its tricky and everyone knows it so it should not be a surprise when you get some and it doesn't work as you expect.
I first came to this forum to ask questions and get advice, and from what i've read theres plenty of both. I came to this forum in November as a total noob to 3D printing and was also getting results that i did not like and expect, but after a lot of reading i quickly learnt what was up, what looked crap and what not to print. 3D printing was not as easy as advertised. The first cura i used made support material so thick is was ridiculous with PLA, the next cura was perfect (i'd steer well clear from the newest cura BTW). Period. You need other skills to get the results you want, its up to you to figure them out. I personally love a challenge and believe that people who don't use their brain will ever get good results.
In my honest opinion anyone who buys a decent 3D printer like the Ultimaker cannot blame the printer for lame results unless it is a mechanical failure of some sort, as it has been proved to print objects in a good quality ( i can vouch for that). It is the user who must understand the properties of the materials and equipment he/she is working with to get the best results and if you don't, then you will never get good results.
If you don't know how something is working or why its doing certain things then how on earth are you going to make it do what you want?
Blaming other people will not help your situation, and I don't think labelling will either, as we all already knew ninja flex was a pain to print with.....so why would anyone experimenting using it be surprised when it came out bad? Thats my point. Just like ABS, a pain to print with, hence why PLA is so popular.
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ok, filled it and sanded it, and sprayed it. took longer than i wanted. im not used to doing this much work to my prints as there is usually no need to. If this was printed with Ultimaker filament then it would not have split. the filler has some bubbles in it but appears smooth enough around the edges so i hope i dont see the outline of where it joins the plastic, had to go quite fine 400 for that but base sanding was done at 180 then 240 then 320 then 400 if you really need to know lol.
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I say only use it if you need to (as with anything) otherwise whats the point in changing from the older cura, its more stable, loads models better and runs faster. But i may give it a try as i will see if it copes with high poly models better than the old one. If it doesn't then there really is no point using it in my opinion. Unless you are one of those people who need to use newest stuff regardless.
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I agree, telling people that they need to learn a ton before getting the prints they expect will obviously turn some people off but considering 3D printing is still a hobby type thing in my opinion it should kind of be expected. It would have certainly put me off had i known, but i now know the limits of the printer, and am happy with the results and am happy that logical thinking solves a lot of problems, and good results are not hard to achieve once you figure out how to get them, which is very satisfying. But they really do need to know this all stuff, thats what i'm saying. There is no avoiding it. Doing research and having all the information what you need to do is one thing but actually doing it is something completely different. Its where most people go wrong.
The problem is you need to know a ton of information to print well, but saying so will also put people off doing it, so its a catch 22 situation. Not sure how a massive amount information can be advertised without putting people off though. That is the key. Once you crack that then more people will get going making cooler stuff, right now the quality seems to be fairly low.
Also a lack of close ups of 3D prints means that when you do eventually print your first object, it wont look as good as you expected, also due to overhangs. That was my biggest qualm, the overhangs and lines. But i've sorted those issues now, so all is good.
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The problem is that not all temp sensors are the same and some can be up to 10 degrees hotter or cooler so providing exact temps would make people think they are 'being dishonest' if they don't get the results they expect.
There is a lot of information and people saying how difficult it is to print with flexible filament so i would not expect good results with it therefore will not use it. Its great manufacturers are trying new materials, but you will always need to experiment with them to get them best result for your particular machine.
Temps that filament melt at are usually stated on the roll of filament itself, so I use this as a guide, and go from there. Taking advice is a great start, but experimentation is the key. If you aren't going to experiment, you will not get the best out of your printer, and wont be as happy as other users who do, period.
Just my opinion, but this goes back to the whole people expect everything 3D printer related to be easy and just select what they want and have it when its finished. It just doesn't work like that in my opinion. you will always have inferior prints to everyone else if thats how you approach it, and constantly be wondering what you are doing wrong that other people are doing right. Also what works for some people may not even work for you, so you need to find something that does.
All 3D printers should clearly state in my opinion that 3D printing is not a simple thing and an understanding of 3D moddelling is required, as well as the use of different compositions of filament, as well as maintenance and replacement of certain parts like the PFTE coupler, an understanding of how the filaments react to different temperatures, and closing the print area off when printing in abs to prevent cooling as well as using ABS paste, and making the paste and applying it to the bed, understanding of the best glues to use for your purposes or when not to use them, and understanding making your own support for best results and getting overhangs looking better, and using the brim, raft, and cleaning the head, and levelling the platform, not to even mention any post work on the model once its printed.......you get my drift. Its not as simple as its made out to be..... just my two cents.
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No problem. here is the putty. First time using that tamiya modelling putty which seemed real fine but im not used to such a liquidy putty so layed on a bit too much, it dried real fast which was quite cool, but the heavy areas took a while. need a bit more practice with that. and the sand paper is gonna need to be much rougher than my usual to sand it back. ive had enough of using fine sandpapers they just dont do enough, i started to use 320, but now will go back to 240, and below because 320 just does too little to the plastic. Ill use it to finish with instead.
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... I realize now that UM2 requires fiddling around and modifications according to each materials and what you want to print. I therefore maintain my "dishonnesty" comment against Ultimaker for not making this clear and certainly not giving any information nor warning about this in their materials descriptions. It does not cost much effort nor money for Ultimkaer to write a line of caution about these PLA Flex restrictions/required modifications.
Every printer requires fiddling around with according to each material, so i'm not sure what you're on about there, the day when you just put ANY material into a printer and click go is not here yet. Its like saying you want to cook all meals at the same temperature for the same amount of time, yet some foods take longer to cook than others, or you want your car to run on any type of fuel you put in it. And then complaining because Ultimaker does not tell you how to use other manufacturers filament and blaming them for dishonesty, is a bit silly, they dont make the filament, its an option for you to use. People who dont want to change ANY settings on their 3D printers, shouldn't be 3D printing in my opinion. They should just send it to someone who will do it for them, because they clearly haven't done any proper research on 3D printers otherwise they would know its not as simple as it appears to be or they either don't have the time, patience or common sense to operate the machine sensibly. Period. All machines need some degree of maintanence and tinkering to get the best out of them. If you don't want to tinker DONT get a 3D printer. They're not idiot proof yet.
If anything is dishonest, its the perception that 3D printing is easy and is one click solution. Its not but the more you do it the better you get. Its called learning, but if you don't have time for it, then just do something else.
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Ok a few more pics. i dipped the teeth area for 30 secs, and the rest for another minute as i wanted to smooth out all the weirdness that cura did. Unfortunately the face caved in a bit due to unknown reasons, and the flat areas warped seriously so i put some heavy books on them overnight and will post pics of the final spray when i do some patch work as this is a messed up print and is ideal to practice a bit of filling work, as there is also a big crack, which seems to happen with colorfabb a lot, unlike UM PLA, but we'll see.
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Ok here is a basic photo after i sanded the smooth areas as usual (there was a big line visible where i paused the printer to insert the paper to stop the supports getting knocked over!)...will acetone the rest today. I want to keep the detail in the teeth though so i may dip it for less time than i would normally dip colorfabb for, maybe 35 seconds only.
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Ok near the end due to the base being offset somehow by cura, i jammed in some paper (lol) for support so the internal structure wouldn't completely die and it could at least finish printing. Luckily it worked. Lots of holes and weird stuff, but it could perhaps be the appalling topology, so i cant blame cura all the way home! some pics, il clean it up a touch and do a dip, and spray it to see the true result! First time i've actually paused a print half way through for a valid reason!
Ill post a final too, dont worry.
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OK things are going wrong now, i mean its even going over the skirt lines, lol, and its curas fault, maybe the file is to big? maybe its too complicated, but things look misaligned and off center and differect to cura in all views.
no idea. Ill let it finish, do another one with a thicker shell and if the problem persists then ill see what the new cura says.
I think ill be lucky if it even finishes, lol.
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Ok heres my next print based on a 3d poster i have that didn't 3d scan very well so i ended up drawing all the details... but unfortunately its thinner than expected and some bubbling is still visible but i'm too lazy to start a new one as this one is okish and I never check the layer view, lol. My second attemmpt at zbrush, so apologies for the poor topology and just a freestyle so sorry to all the Alien purists out there.
My main problem with this one is that it has a tons of thin flat area which the acetone treatment will most likely warp (will definitely warp, lol), so we'll see what happens when i dip it! I might put some heavy objects on it directly after the dip to try and minimise it as its already warping on the glass on one corner and a side!
about 8 more hours till i see if the face comes out ok or if i made the walls just too thin! its already missing spots so im just hoping it will at least do the face ok :(.
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How I do atomic pulls, in case you where wandering...(but feel free to do them however works best for you) as everyone does them slightly differently.
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The new Cura doesn't open *gcode files like the old version would. Sometimes this is needed if you want to see what's inside the file.
The old cura opened gcode files, but they always looked blank to me and only showed up in layer mode for some reason? but i guess if the new cura doesn't load them at all them thats no good for you. I still use the old cura, any reason in particular you are using the newer one, other than its newer btw?
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Look OK to me, if you don't have supports for the overhangs then thats what they look like no printer will do better at high resolution as you are essentially printing on thin air. Try to print in a lower resolution, make your own DIY supports, or just compensate for ANY overhangs, that is the one downside to these printers that you must learnt to live with, or specifically model things to have the overhangs working in your favour. Its also why many things you see are printed in parts or halves and not just in one go. There have been many discussions about the expectations people have when they just buy their printer and expect it to print 'anything' perfectly, when the fact of the matter is it can't print anything perfectly. There is a learning curve, but its no deal breaker, as unless you are willing to pay a lot more money then you have no choice at the moment anyways so there is no point in complaining either or people whining that they've been missold stuff. They print amazing things you just need to learn how. Post production is also a big player in the final look.
P.S. if you do post-work and paint you're prints, they will ALWAYS look better than if you leave them as raw prints. Printing in fancy coloured filament for me is a waste of time as i always sand and treat my prints after, so i can spray them whatever colour i want anyways. Fancy filaments are only really useful if they are flexible or carry different properties to regular filament.
But feel free to experiment, BTW they recommend different nozzles to print with the metal filament due to nozzle wear. Another reason not to bother with that stuff...unless you have an olssen block that is.
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I'd say try the atomic pull again, and dont stop doing it until the end comes out perfectly shaped like the insode of the nozzle. then go from there. I used to get that damn ticking sound all the time and was ready to throw my machine onto the floor as that sound drove me crazy....then i learnt that i needed to do atomic pulls and print off the roll and i've never heard it since. Good Atomic pulls are ESSENTIAL. printing off the roll is optional but DOES eliminate the ticking sound if all else is fine as the wieght of it pulling the roll of filament round is sometimes too much for the feeder and its causes the clicking. This is how i print everything.
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Ive just been arguing with some guy about pure PLA vs PLA blends, lol. some people are so retarded. Claiming that PLA blends are not really PLA? lol just cos he can't use acetone to smooth his models like I do.
So for all the people who buy PLA from different manufacturers, I will tell you this, they all use different recipes (and i doubt they will tell you exactly what percentage of what is in them). Therefore you will get different results from different manufacturers. I found colorfabb and UM to be the best so far, UM wins it for me hands down though, even though it bleaches more, it also smooths more with no cracking or splitting what so ever which may occur with colorfabb.
So if you are not using Colorfabb PLA or UM PLA then dont be surprised if it won't smooth like in my videos!!!!!
XTC-3D and casting
in Improve your 3D prints
Posted · Edited by Guest
Acetone smoothing is the only way to go with PLA in my opinion, and I do TONS of it. But it all depends if acetone plays with the particular brand of PLA you are using (remember that PURE PLA is unaffected by acetone!). Also remember that ANY lumps bumps or scratches or anything will show up on your cast so take the time and make it perfect (means loads of delicate precise sanding regardless of any acetone dipping and post work!) Stuff for casting has to be perfect or else all the results will be lame. I just paint my stuff in DIY metal paints and save a lot of time messing about with resins and other chemicals making casts unless you are after actually functional parts. My room looks like a terrorists diy bomb factory with bottles of chemicals spread out all over. lol.
That XTC-3D has always looked crap in my opinion and a total waste of time and money creating wobbly and imperfectly smooth surfaces which still blatantly had the lines in them. You are better off just using filler, or if your model is complicated then invest in some PLA that plays well with acetone and use that to print with exclusively.
But don't expect good results if you print in low resolutions. Smoothing is not magic, the less detail to play with the less you will get at the end. 0.06 is fine and 0.1 is fine for vertical stuff, depending on the brand of PLA once again. To be safe i would recommend UM dark blue PLA as from experience i found this one to be the best. then just a light quick sand to remove any ringin or slight imperfections, chuck your prints into the acetone for 25 or so seconds, and job done!
Good luck.
EDIT: (UM PLA DOES NOT SMOOTH ANYMORE, THEY HAVE CHANGED THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS) Use colorfabb instead.