Printing with colorFabb XT-CF20 - UM2

[Turan 0]

10 minutes ago, Catlord said:

 

Ok lets begin then 🙂

 

Stock mean you didn't make any upgrade on your printer. you didn't change the bowden tube by a quality one (like capricorn), you didn't change the hot end.

 

XT-CF20 needs to be printed with a T° between 250 and 265/270°C depending of your hotend. This IS NOT COMPATIBLE with a CR-10 stock.

have a look at the following video .

/!\ BEWARE ! THIS IS NOT A FIX TO YOUR PROBLEM /!\

 

 

 

It will explain you a few tips about your hotend. 

For my part, I didn't made this hotfix: I take care of my hotend and check it every 2 weeks.

 

As you can see, in your hotend, the bowden tube is going down till it touch the nozzle. A bowden tube starts degrading at 245°C, it becomes flexible and dilate itself. the pressure made by your extruder on the filament starts to deform the bowden tube around the nozzle.
It causes clogs and underextruding and BIG CLOGS.

The only way to print at more than 240°C with a CR-10 like printer is to use another hotend: a "full metal hotend". There are 2 brands well know: Micro swiss (that have hotend compatible directly with CR-10/ender3) and E3D .
There are also clones of corse.

 

- If you want to print at more than 240°C, change your hotend

- if you want to print hard filament (like Carbon, wood, marble,...) use a hardened nozzle (like Xtra nozzle from E3D, ruby, reinforced steel nozzle,...) or byuy tons of brass nozzle and change it every 500gr printed. (proceed to check and adapt this value)

 

 

 

Thank you so much. Yep we should print at least on 245 or 250 even.  It worked better at least before but these days it really kills me! clogging jamming and anything you know! So, any kind of hotend would work in this machine right? You also had problems right with this printer? I print with 2 mm/s! We wrote gcode and actually we could not print in high speed.So no difference between brass nozzlee and steel one. just changing increment right?!

How about stick? which glue we should use in glass bed 70 degree?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Turan

[Catlord 17]

Your are cumulating lots of oproblems.

 

- STOP printing at these T° with your stock printer ! 

 

As you have already done it, your bowden tube must be replaced. remove if and you will see that the end part that touch the nozzle is in bad shape. cut this part  (perpendicularly !)

 

I don't have a Cr-10 but an ultimaker original and an ender that is pretty the same as the CR10.

 

If you change the hotend, you will need : 

- to make adjustement in the firmware (to reach 250/260°C)

- to run a PID tuning (use pronterface)

 

Why do you write your own Gcode ? 

use Cura (it's free).

 

Print speed 25mm/s

 

low speed doens't mean you won't wear your nozzle ! And this ultra low speed will cause you other problems (filement is made to melt a little, with 2mm/sec, your filament stay TOOOO LONG in the nozzle !

 

stick: use a PEI Sheet.

 

I strongly advice you to watch these youtube channels :  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsdc_0ZTXikARFEn2dRDJhg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbgBDBrwsikmtoLqtpc59Bw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Ak7Ir1WMOWauY_oH00-Qg (and look for LUKE'S manual for mounting ender3, preety the same for CR-10)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxQbYGpbdrh-b2ND-AfIybg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiczXOhGpvoQGhOL16EZiTg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrFGsH4pplqjFXJqLcjykNQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDk3ScYL7OaeGbOPdDIqIlQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPFChjpOgkUqckj3378jt5w

 

in these channels you will find ALL THE ANSWERS you need to understand where you problems come from and how to solve it. 

 

it will take you a long time by it's worse the effort 😉

 

My advice :

First you need to repair your printer: it's damaged as you have printed at a too high T° => cut your bowden tube (or better, buy a capricorn tube with the pliers that cuts perpendicularly)

run a few print with PLA at standard T° to check if everything is ok

 

you still want to print XT-CF 20 ? 

 

=> buy a microswiss hotend

=> change the firmware ( look at teaching tech videos about it)

=> run a PID Tuning

=> proceed to ALL tunings (temperature tower, stringing, dimensionnal accuracy, extruder tuning,...)

 

Then you will have no trouble to print XT-CF20 filament.

Low grade ( and even high grade) 3D printers are NOT plug n' play unfortunatly. it requires a tons of tweaking and learning :/

 

[Turan 0]

23 hours ago, Catlord said:

Your are cumulating lots of oproblems.

 

- STOP printing at these T° with your stock printer ! 

 

As you have already done it, your bowden tube must be replaced. remove if and you will see that the end part that touch the nozzle is in bad shape. cut this part  (perpendicularly !)

 

I don't have a Cr-10 but an ultimaker original and an ender that is pretty the same as the CR10.

 

If you change the hotend, you will need : 

- to make adjustement in the firmware (to reach 250/260°C)

- to run a PID tuning (use pronterface)

 

Why do you write your own Gcode ? 

use Cura (it's free).

 

Print speed 25mm/s

 

low speed doens't mean you won't wear your nozzle ! And this ultra low speed will cause you other problems (filement is made to melt a little, with 2mm/sec, your filament stay TOOOO LONG in the nozzle !

 

stick: use a PEI Sheet.

 

I strongly advice you to watch these youtube channels :  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsdc_0ZTXikARFEn2dRDJhg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbgBDBrwsikmtoLqtpc59Bw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Ak7Ir1WMOWauY_oH00-Qg (and look for LUKE'S manual for mounting ender3, preety the same for CR-10)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxQbYGpbdrh-b2ND-AfIybg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiczXOhGpvoQGhOL16EZiTg

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrFGsH4pplqjFXJqLcjykNQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDk3ScYL7OaeGbOPdDIqIlQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPFChjpOgkUqckj3378jt5w

 

in these channels you will find ALL THE ANSWERS you need to understand where you problems come from and how to solve it. 

 

it will take you a long time by it's worse the effort 😉

 

My advice :

First you need to repair your printer: it's damaged as you have printed at a too high T° => cut your bowden tube (or better, buy a capricorn tube with the pliers that cuts perpendicularly)

run a few print with PLA at standard T° to check if everything is ok

 

you still want to print XT-CF 20 ? 

 

=> buy a microswiss hotend

=> change the firmware ( look at teaching tech videos about it)

=> run a PID Tuning

=> proceed to ALL tunings (temperature tower, stringing, dimensionnal accuracy, extruder tuning,...)

 

Then you will have no trouble to print XT-CF20 filament.

Low grade ( and even high grade) 3D printers are NOT plug n' play unfortunatly. it requires a tons of tweaking and learning 😕

 

 

Thank you so much. So by microswiss you mean sth like https://www.robolinkmarket.com/cr-10-j-head-hotend-v6-24v-50w-ender-3.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA2vjuBRCqARIsAJL5a-L59h1CSSzq2046IMEvLFUGHJw8nnMpxuMBTzdDEQqsEf1r4JESfyAaAgekEALw_wcB

?

 

And, I use 0.5mm nozzle. Is it ok?

 

Why I use gcode? Since we cannot print some staffs with out gcode. It is an academic work actually

 

If we buy that hotend then changing firmware would be a really annoying task since this is an academic work and it might take too long to FINISH THIS WORK (so changing firmware is really necessary right?) Unfortunately, I have limited amount of time

Edited November 27, 2019 by Turan

[Catlord 17]

By microswiss i mean this one :

https://store.micro-swiss.com/collections/creality-cr-10/products/all-metal-hotend-kit-for-cr-10

 

buy it from manufacturer to avoid clones.

 

0.5 nozzle is good. don't go lower than 0.4mm

 

CURA slicer is producing Gcode directly. you can modifiy it if you want.

it REALLY easy.

 

- take the stl file of the thing you want to print

- open CURA, import the stl file

- choose the parameter you want (speed, T°, bed T°, infil,....)

- clic slice

- save the gcodefile produceed.

 

that's it.

 

Changing the firmware is also very easy and and very quick. On the youtube channel i gave you, you have complete method to do it

example :

 

 

[Turan 0]

Hello,

 

I have clogging problem. I want to print 16 layers each 0.2 mm but after printing 10 layers it is going to be clogged above the nozzle. Actually it is still hot and by pressing I can easily remove the material inside. What could be the problems? I have a crazy question. I loosened the filament around the spool since I think that when it is tightened it is hard for the machine to pull it! It might be crazy, I don't know actually. When I turned back in the morning I see that it is tightened and clogged. (I changed the knurled wheel since I thought that it was worn out).

Would you please help me?

Edited December 4, 2019 by Turan

[Turan 0]

I have one more question. Could high speed printing result in wearing the feeder grip sooner?

[Smithy 1,144]

No it should not make any difference for the knurled wheel, but it could be the reason why your nozzle gets clogged. So try to print about 35mm/sec and check it again.

 

Another reason could be, that your middle fan (behind the print head) is not working. This fan cools the upper part of the hot end and if the fan is not working or blocked by something, then the filament gets too soft before it enters the block and will also cause a clogged hot end. 

 

The fan starts automatically when the nozzle heats up (above 40°C) or is running always (depending on your board revision)

[Turan 0]

13 hours ago, Smithy said:

No it should not make any difference for the knurled wheel, but it could be the reason why your nozzle gets clogged. So try to print about 35mm/sec and check it again.

 

Another reason could be, that your middle fan (behind the print head) is not working. This fan cools the upper part of the hot end and if the fan is not working or blocked by something, then the filament gets too soft before it enters the block and will also cause a clogged hot end. 

 

The fan starts automatically when the nozzle heats up (above 40°C) or is running always (depending on your board revision)

 

Thank you so much. There are two fans working right? One is in front of me and the others on the right hand side of the hotend. The one in front of me is working always while start printing but the others depend on my gcode.

[Smithy 1,144]

Ups sorry I thought you are using an UM2 but doesn't matter you just have one fan less but the functionality is the same. When one fan is always running then it is ok.

 

One more idea, which layer height do you use? Too small could be a problem for CF, so try min 0.2.

 

If you have a thicker nozzle i.e 0.6 it can also help to avoid clogging.

[Turan 0]

Thanks you

 

How about the layer adhesion. What causes the bad adhesion?

[Smithy 1,144]

To get a better layer adhesion there are some things you can try:

• print slower ~30mm/sec
• less fan, depending on your model, but if you don't have overhangs or bridges, try to turn off the fan completely 
• print a little bit hotter 5 to 10°C
• and an enclosure helps also often to keep the warm air inside - try a big box or something like that

 

[Turan 0]

Anybody knows the aspect ratio (fiber length to the diameter of this material)? Anybody had any academic experience?

[Catlord 17]

On 12/10/2019 at 3:38 PM, Turan said:

Anybody knows the aspect ratio (fiber length to the diameter of this material)? Anybody had any academic experience?

 

I don't understand what you mean : are you speaking about the size of the carbon micro fibers inside the filament ? 

Academic in wich field ? 

I work in a research facility. (I have acess to an electroic microscope)

 

 

 

[Turan 0]

13 hours ago, Catlord said:

 

I don't understand what you mean : are you speaking about the size of the carbon micro fibers inside the filament ? 

Academic in wich field ? 

I work in a research facility. (I have acess to an electroic microscope)

 

 

 

Thank you so much Catlord. Yep. I mean the length to diameter ratio of this specific XT-CF20 after printing. Since in 3d printing we the fibers are cut and I could not actually measure it correctly. Did you have any experience?

[Catlord 17]

Ok, here's what I understand of your demand :

 

filament are shrinking after being printed so if you print a 20mm cube, it will be 19.XX after being printed.

Is that the meaning of your demand ? 

 

if it's the case, here's are a few tips :

first: check this page :

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/materials-guide/properties-table/

you will find the coeficient of thermal expansion of several kind of filament.

 

Second : 

download the calibration cross on thingiverse :

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2484766

 

there is an excel file where you have all you need. shrinking coeficient, steps calibration, and so on.

 

My advice:

 

YOU MUST CALIBRATE YOUR STEPS CAREFULLY !

- use a depth gauge and an adequat mount (search on thingiverse)

- place your gauge on the X axis, use pronterface, do 200mm while measuring with the depth gauge. modifiy your step/mm value, repeat until you have exactly 200mm+-0.03mm

do it again for Y and Z axis.

 

like this, you know that when you ask to print a XX mm piece, your printer will do it exactly and if you piece is not XXmm, it's due to other parameters like shrinking .

this way you will be able to calculate the ratio you need 😉

 

[Turan 0]

23 hours ago, Catlord said:

Ok, here's what I understand of your demand :

 

filament are shrinking after being printed so if you print a 20mm cube, it will be 19.XX after being printed.

Is that the meaning of your demand ? 

 

if it's the case, here's are a few tips :

first: check this page :

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/materials-guide/properties-table/

you will find the coeficient of thermal expansion of several kind of filament.

 

Second : 

download the calibration cross on thingiverse :

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2484766

 

there is an excel file where you have all you need. shrinking coeficient, steps calibration, and so on.

 

My advice:

 

YOU MUST CALIBRATE YOUR STEPS CAREFULLY !

- use a depth gauge and an adequat mount (search on thingiverse)

- place your gauge on the X axis, use pronterface, do 200mm while measuring with the depth gauge. modifiy your step/mm value, repeat until you have exactly 200mm+-0.03mm

do it again for Y and Z axis.

 

like this, you know that when you ask to print a XX mm piece, your printer will do it exactly and if you piece is not XXmm, it's due to other parameters like shrinking .

this way you will be able to calculate the ratio you need 😉

 

Thanks you so much

I am not sure whether I got wrong or not

However, I  need the aspect ratio in micro size. Before starting are these steps for finding the aspect ratio in micro size. For example normally the carbon fiber length is 100 micrometer and diameter is 7.5 micrometer

[Turan 0]

Hello guys,

 

I am talking about the colorfabb xt-cf20 printing with the creality cr-10s. If anybody has the same experience please share it with me. The subject f the topic is the reason why I ask my question here. I attached the image here. You know this really irritates me. I really had bad time with this machines. It seems t hat  this material is too much for this machine!!

Let me explain. Actually, I use 0.5 mm steel nozzle (It has been around 3 months that I have used this one). 0.4 mm width. It is so strange that it could not print well. Actually, it is not related to speed, temperature or so since I tried everything actually. You know sometimes it seems that it could not be squeezed out from the nozzle or micro temporarily clogged! It seems for me that the carbon fibers cannot squeeze out for a while which I called it micro temporarily clogged.

Maybe the nozzle is done! I don't know maybe even the machine itself!

Edited December 13, 2019 by Turan

[Catlord 17]

On 12/13/2019 at 12:55 PM, Turan said:

Hello guys,

 

I am talking about the colorfabb xt-cf20 printing with the creality cr-10s. If anybody has the same experience please share it with me. The subject f the topic is the reason why I ask my question here. I attached the image here. You know this really irritates me. I really had bad time with this machines. It seems t hat  this material is too much for this machine!!

Let me explain. Actually, I use 0.5 mm steel nozzle (It has been around 3 months that I have used this one). 0.4 mm width. It is so strange that it could not print well. Actually, it is not related to speed, temperature or so since I tried everything actually. You know sometimes it seems that it could not be squeezed out from the nozzle or micro temporarily clogged! It seems for me that the carbon fibers cannot squeeze out for a while which I called it micro temporarily clogged.

Maybe the nozzle is done! I don't know maybe even the machine itself!

Hi, 

as already stated, the XTCF20 needs a T° of more than 250°C to be printed.

Direct bowden tube without a metal heatbreak CAN NOT PRINT AT 250°C !

Bowden tubes start melting around 240°C.

 

so yes, you can't print XTCF20 with a stock CR10 properly.

 

[Catlord 17]

On 12/13/2019 at 7:40 AM, Turan said:

Thanks you so much

I am not sure whether I got wrong or not

However, I  need the aspect ratio in micro size. Before starting are these steps for finding the aspect ratio in micro size. For example normally the carbon fiber length is 100 micrometer and diameter is 7.5 micrometer

 

Did you try to contact colorfabb to have this aspect ratio size ?

 

[Turan 0]

8 hours ago, Catlord said:

 

Did you try to contact colorfabb to have this aspect ratio size ?

 

Of course. They did not give me. They even dont know they said since they corporate with others

Secret!!!?

Edited December 16, 2019 by Turan

[eerasen 0]

You information is really effective and good to use. Please keep share more valuable information.

[Turan 0]

44 minutes ago, eerasen said:

You information is really effective and good to use. Please keep share more valuable information.

me?!! which part!

[Turan 0]

Guys

 

Does anybody know how much concern should we have about exposing to xt or xt-cf20 while printing regarding the health? Does it make any cancer risks?

Working in the lab where the printer is also working there I mean. The printer is opened without any shelter.

 

Thanks

[LePaul 322]

On 1/13/2020 at 4:43 AM, Turan said:

Guys

 

Does anybody know how much concern should we have about exposing to xt or xt-cf20 while printing regarding the health? Does it make any cancer risks?

Working in the lab where the printer is also working there I mean. The printer is opened without any shelter.

 

Thanks

 

If you go to Color Fabb's website on this material, they have a Download section for MDS (material data sheet) and TDS (Technical data sheet).  Back then, they didn't list too much in there.

 

I work at a research lab and it has opened my eyes to being safer.  

 

That said, I would advise printing in an enclosure that has air filtration/fume extraction.  It wouldn't be a bad idea to wear gloves when handling or even wearing a mask when handling the material.  

 

I'm using a Ruby Olsson Nozzle on my Ultimaker 2+ to print this material and it has an after market (PrintedSolid) enclosure on top.  I am using a 3D Upfitter Carbon Filter to help mitigate the VOCs and nanoparticles generated while printing.  In addition to that, I have a large (Honeywell) air purifier with HEPA filtration running in the shop.  So, every little bit helps.

 

I find, printing at 250C, the material flows very nicely and great prints.  I added 0.40 vertical lift (z hop) and that has eliminated the blobs for me.  I am finding my flow rate has to be pretty scaled back to print dimensionally accurate.  It could be the filament diameter, which has been 2.82 in spots, or closer to 3 in others.