Printing with colorFabb XT-CF20 - UM2

[LePaul 312]

I think others have mentioned no fans at all for this filament

[jockspice 6]

I think others have mentioned no fans at all for this filament

 

The reason I have added the fans is that the filament just will not bridge for me, it just curls up and gathers as a big blob on the head. With the fans, it goes a bit solid and bridges across better.

[Artiz 27]

 

I think others have mentioned no fans at all for this filament

 

The reason I have added the fans is that the filament just will not bridge for me, it just curls up and gathers as a big blob on the head. With the fans, it goes a bit solid and bridges across better.

 

I agree with LePaul... any fan seems to speed up the drying/not bridging type processes... but if its helping you and this particular print then why not?

The other parameter I thought of fiddling with was your 'Fill' %... why not try 100% and then work backwards and see if that will affect your support structure... does the 'support type' setting make any difference?

Fully understood regarding the writing on the top of the cap by the way.

Keep us updated though jockspice... all helps in the long run.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Guest

[Bingo 0]

Hi guys, many thanks for this nice thread and I feel it is necessary to say thank you here, although I am still not on cloud nine now (my bad).

I wondered if any of you have ever tried to smooth the surface? I have tried acetone vapor bath, it works but the result is not so bravo as for ABS. So I hope to know if there is any powerful solvent for XT polymer, it just seems to be too blunt...

[ralphb 1]

@Bingo for sure you could dissolve the PET, but I fear you will have a hard time trying to dissolve the Carbonfibers

@topic

Well, bought this filament today. After a few hard hours I think I got it.

• 255°C nozzle
  
• 70°C bed
  
• 0.4mm nozzle diameter
  
• 0.2mm First layer
  
• 50% fill
  
• Someone already mentioned it, the filament diameter is not what it should. Mine is 1.9mm (No, no moisture, its brand new)
  
• No fans (carbon based materials are very goot heat conductors, they cool down quickly by themselves)
  
• Very slow first layer speed 10mm/s (This one gets even nicer than with PLA)
  
• Printing speed 40mm/s
  

What to do with the nozzle getting dirty? Dental floss to gently clean it while printing? Maybe a wire of a material attracting it even better than steel?

However I'll share its success or fail.

BR

Ralph

[Artiz 27]

Hi guys, many thanks for this nice thread and I feel it is necessary to say thank you here, although I am still not on cloud nine now (my bad).

   I wondered if any of you have ever tried to smooth the surface? I have tried acetone vapor bath, it works but the result is not so bravo as for ABS. So I hope to know if there is any powerful solvent for XT polymer, it just seems to be too blunt...

 

I tried acetone too which didn't work at all for me... what I did find good about this material was the way it sanded down though... better than any other material I've used so far. Starting off rough to get a good surface and then working my way through only a couple of grades to a very fine 4-600 finish... looks great. I then sprayed it with a clear matt cellulose sealer... superb! The carbon fibres make for a really tough outer skin which seems to make the sanding process the best way to finish off prints.

I used wet and dry sanding paper by the way.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Guest

[Labern 773]

For XT I have sanded and then polished it by quickly rubbing it on a piece of carpet. Haven't tried XT-CF20 though.

[Artiz 27]

I've started printing my concept speargun at ulti settings now and the results are exceeding my expectations. I have done a bit of post-print work but for the results you get regarding strength and quality... and possibly durability... its looking so worth it.

I can't believe how 'sturdy' it feels in my hand.

Best filament so far... for working parts.

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Guest

[Artiz 27]

Footnote:

I tried printing XT-CF20 without retraction for the first time today and I have to report I think its more trouble than its worth... all the tails & mess it creates seems to continually jeopardize the actual print... and at 24 hours and still counting I haven't been able to leave it alone without 'Ninja Style' fiddling as neotko so appropriately calls it (new thread there called 'Ninja 3D Printing Technique's by neotko - please!)... I have also had to pause and sand down large build ups which were making the hot end jump violently... turning retraction off is probably OK for small single prints but anything substantial and multiple part prints in particular I would definitely advise using retraction and then adjust material flow 'on the fly' to compensate.

I do have to add that this particular print is the culmination of quite a few years work so I am probably over fussing too!

Edited May 4, 2016 by Guest

[Artiz 27]

Going well so far... bit more post-print work than I'd hoped for though... the speargun body was printed @ 0.6 LH, 50% infill and 3mm wall and took 24 hrs for both sides together.

The handle is going to take 36 hours... gulp! I need to screw into it and it obviously needs to be as strong as I can make it so I've opted for .8 LH, 75% infill and a 5mm wall... at 0.6 LH plus 100% infill it would've taken 100 hours!

P.S. I've just bought more of this filament direct from ColorFabb who seem to be the only ones who have it in stock at the moment.

A 2.2kg reel was £102. delivered to the UK... looks like they're the cheapest too.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Guest

[Artiz 27]

A few irritating issues with the handle regarding the support structure and general adhesion which looked disastrous initially but I managed to save it... at 15 hours in... it was not a pleasant experience. I've got a large ridge a third of the way up but layer adhesion looks OK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Guest

[Labern 773]

Will you coat the printed parts with anything? I have found that the carbon fibers absorb water.

[Artiz 27]

Will you coat the printed parts with anything? I have found that the carbon fibers absorb water.

 

Yes definitely... I used a cellulose sealer on MK1 which is not only waterproof but also scratch resistant-ish... a bit expensive but it also looks lush so definitely worth it.

I left a piece of printed XT-CF20 in salt water for a few days as a test with no adverse result so I'm surprised you found different?

Edited May 8, 2016 by Guest

[danilius 118]

Have you ever tried plain PETG? I've been using the stuff for parts that are getting a serious walloping, and the results are nothing short of astonishing.

[Artiz 27]

Have you ever tried plain PETG? I've been using the stuff for parts that are getting a serious walloping, and the results are nothing short of astonishing.

 

I've certainly been interested in the 3DXMAX® CARBON FIBER PETG FILAMENT but there seems to be very little info about PETG itself... can you tell us any more danilius

[danilius 118]

I bought some PETG from amazon UK, 3D Prima brand. It has a glass-like appearance once printed (if you use really fat layers). It is as easy to print as PLA, although at higher temps. I tend to print 0.2mm layers at 30mm/sec for the outers, 45mm.sec for inners and infill at 255C and the bed at 75C, no enclosure required either (although to be honest I don't use one with ABS either). I use UHU stic on glass, works just fine for me.

It does not warp like ABS, it does not smell very much, less than PLA. It's greatest strength is its.....strength. Crazy strong compared to PLA and ABS. You can really brutalise the stuff. It is more springy than ABS, and springs will work quite nicely when the same thing will break in ABS or PLA. All in all, it is my go-to filament now.

I did have some strange result when destruction testing some prints. 5 pieces went through 200+ degrees bends several times before I could tear the pieces away. 2 shattered, but did not delaminate.

I tried to capture the gem-like appearance of this material unsuccessfully. The springs are really strong and I was unable to pull them too far out because the sharp edges of the part were digging into my fingers too much, which should give you a very good idea of the strength of this material. I bet the springs 90 degrees up and down and they still work.

I think this stuff is manufactured by the dwarves of the mines Khazad-dûm with Mithril being one of the key components, but that might just be an urban legend.

[Artiz 27]

wicked post danilius... much thanks for the info... being mostly interested in carbon I'm wondering now if the carbon/PETG mix from 3DXMAX is worth a trial. I have found with XT-CF20 that it can be a bit 'flaky' on the finer edges of my parts when sanding down. Although a coat of cellulose spray sealer does seem to cure that problem.

Have you finely measured post print for shrinkage danilius?

Edited May 9, 2016 by Guest

[danilius 118]

Have you finely measured post print for shrinkage danilius?

No, that's a good idea mind you.

[LePaul 312]

Well my first test went quite well.  Despite a problem with the print leaning slightly, the resulting print came out very nice.

I tried 240C but it wouldn't stick to the heated bed.  250 it was trying...256 was the magic number for me.

Resolution 0.2

Temp 256C

Bed temp 70C

Fans off

Retractions on

Using Anders Olsson's prototype nozzle (ruby)

Fill density 20%

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Guest

[Artiz 27]

Well my first test went quite well.  Despite a problem with the print leaning slightly, the resulting print came out very nice. I tried 240C but it wouldn't stick to the heated bed.  250 it was trying...256 was the magic number for me.

Resolution 0.2

Temp 256C

Bed temp 70C

Fans off

Retractions on

Using Anders Olsson's prototype nozzle (ruby)

Fill density 20%

 

Nice print/video!

[Artiz 27]

 

 

 

 

First field trial of my printed speargun... the butt broke off at the end of the trial... due to a very basic design error though... now sorted - but a bit more printing to do of course.

 

 

 

I'm now printing at 0.8 with a 70% infill which leaves very small air pockets for buoyancy but also gives me the overall strength required for this type of utilitarian/component style printing... and I can even screw small screws into it with good retention.

I wish someone could do something about that 'support' fiasco though... all my print failures are usually down to problems with 'support'... if I choose 'grid' its a nightmare post print and if I choose lines they usually fail to print correctly unless I've got the speed so low it takes a week to print? Having said that I am also beginning to get consistently good/excellent prints with this material.

Bit more info:

Olsson block

0.4 SS nozzle

260C

LH 0.08

Shell 4mm

RTrction - yes/no/maybe! (Deffo not on multiple component prints)

B/T 3mm

Fill - 70%

40mm/s

Everywhere

Brim

I use an expensive cellulose spray sealer on the buildplate because I also spray my parts with it post-print... works every time...

I start at 50% speed with the buildplate up at 90C until 4 or 5 layers are down - adjusting to 70C after first 30 mins... helps to keep it stuck down but make sure you do not leave it at 90C cos it will 'fry' your print. I also start with 120% material flow which decreases/increases with my speed once I've got the support printing correctly... I also need to monitor all this for the first 2-3 hours after which I can bring it all up to full speed and leave it alone... although I usually have to continually check back for build ups etc. If the blobs get too big I pause and cut them off with a sharp blade... I also sand them flat if necessary.

PS. After having problems with printing the support on my running print I turned retraction off and its now printing the support structure just fine.... retraction on or off?... whatever suits the individual print by the looks of it?

Edited May 21, 2016 by Guest

[LePaul 312]

I've been having a conversation with ColorFabb since some of my other XT-CF20 prints have come out very blobby. He made a few suggestions and here is what I am going to try soon....my printer has a problematic Y-Axis pulley (again) so once I have that resolved, will try again.

Here's what I plan to try next time based on his suggestions:

Layer 0.2

Shell Thickness 1.2

Enable Retraction (checked)

-

Fill Bottom/Top 1.2

Fill Density 100%

-

Print speed - 40 mm/s

Printing Temp - 255 (lower to 250 after first layers)

Bed Temp 70

Filament Diameter - 2.85

Flow - 97% (per CF suggestion)

Advanced (changes only)

Retraction

Speed 40 mm/s

Distance 4.5

Speed

Travel Speed - 250 mm/s (Ultimaker Original max)

Combing - Off

Note the change to flow.

The piece I showed him with a bracket piece for the UMO Shroud, thus why he advised 100% infill. I'm also curious to try the retraction settings.

I'll let you know the results, since this is a great thread on printing with this stuff.

[Artiz 27]

I bought some PETG from amazon UK, 3D Prima brand. It has a glass-like appearance once printed (if you use really fat layers). It is as easy to print as PLA, although at higher temps. I tend to print 0.2mm layers at 30mm/sec for the outers, 45mm.sec for inners and infill at 255C and the bed at 75C, no enclosure required either (although to be honest I don't use one with ABS either). I use UHU stic on glass, works just fine for me.

It does not warp like ABS, it does not smell very much, less than PLA. It's greatest strength is its.....strength. Crazy strong compared to PLA and ABS. You can really brutalise the stuff. It is more springy than ABS, and springs will work quite nicely when the same thing will break in ABS or PLA. All in all, it is my go-to filament now.

I did have some strange result when destruction testing some prints. 5 pieces went through 200+ degrees bends several times before I could tear the pieces away. 2 shattered, but did not delaminate.

I tried to capture the gem-like appearance of this material unsuccessfully. The springs are really strong and I was unable to pull them too far out because the sharp edges of the part were digging into my fingers too much, which should give you a very good idea of the strength of this material. I bet the springs 90 degrees up and down and they still work.

I think this stuff is manufactured by the dwarves of the mines Khazad-dûm with Mithril being one of the key components, but that might just be an urban legend.

 

After doing a bit more reading regarding PETG I now realise that Colorfabb's XT range is actually PETG too. Eastman's Amphora is a trade name for its own copolyester composition... which they recently sold to DuPont by the way... more info here.

The term copolyester doesn't actually mean much... its just a term used to describe a chemical or manufacturing process... like polymer etc.

However... it does mean that using cellulose as a sealer (which I have been doing) is probably not going to give the best results because it's clearly a very different chemical composition... whereas polyurethane is very much closer and in many compositions actually contains types of copolyester.

The upshot is I am now about to try out a polyurethane sealer/varnish for the build plate as well as sealing my parts post print... and also a polyurethane bonding agent when bonding my parts together... I'll let you know how I get on...

[danilius 118]

The upshot is I am now about to try out a polyurethane sealer/varnish for the build plate as well as sealing my parts post print... and also a polyurethane bonding agent when bonding my parts together... I'll let you know how I get on...

 

Since you are within reach of ebay UK, give UHU stic a go before spraying muck all over your build plate. Works a charm for me, for all my current filaments (PLA, ABS, Nylon, PETG). Spread it with the plate at around 50C, and print PETG at 75C.

[Artiz 27]

Since you are within reach of ebay UK, give UHU stic a go before spraying muck all over your build plate. Works a charm for me, for all my current filaments (PLA, ABS, Nylon, PETG). Spread it with the plate at around 50C, and print PETG at 75C.

 

Thanks for the tip danilius... at risk of sounding obsessive... which I probably am... the idea behind using 'muck' as you call it enables me to retain consistency regarding my finish. I have to coat/seal/varnish my prints due to the bashing and adverse conditions that a speargun necessarily/normally endures. With my mirrored parts the build plate surface of both sides is also essential for bonding them both together too.... Cleaning off is easy enough...

All together the hope is that it makes for a 'proper' working part at last...

Edited May 24, 2016 by Guest