Printing with colorFabb XT-CF20 - UM2

[rigs 735]

Bed t° 60 - 70 effect : slow drying layers

[meduza 191]

Very intrested if you can get it to print well @nicolinux, i had similar problems and did not put down much time in researching why since i did not have any particular use for the CF20 at the time.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Guest

[MrByte 4]

I'm having effectively all the same issues trying to print with the CF20 using a stainless nozzle. I had one print come out quite nice looking, but the layer adhesion towards the bottom wasn't great and I wound up breaking the bottom off while removing it from the build platform. The rest of the print was absolutely great looking and had no layer adhesion issues.

Since that print... I've been failing to get any adhesion to the build plate.

[macua85 52]

dammit, I've just ordered stainless nozzles and a roll of this stuff. I really hope you guys get this figured out before I start! @neotko seems to have printed a lot of the CF stuff...wonder what he did to get it to work. Maybe its due to the advanced settings he gets access too in simplify3d.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Guest

[MrByte 4]

I'm using Simplify3d as my slicer, so I'd love to know whatever settings people who successfully print with this stuff are using. Perhaps even share the FFF profile, if possible.

[neotko 1,417]

On s3d you can set the first layer height by %. Just make the math to make it 0.2mm at least (or higher) also set first layer width to 120 and slow it to 15% if you are at 70mm/s. Also desactivate the negative retraction to avoid problems on areas with many retracts. The rest of the options depends highly on what you print. For example if you desactivate the 'only retract blabla' on the last advanced options it will retract always and you can make almost perfect clean surfaces bottom and top. It has a gazillion options, most of the time depends on what you want to do. On cura you can do the same for many of the stuff but s3d let's you make subprocess, group, change quality at any Z or print infill/supports/outlines with a different widths or qualitys. It takes time to know what you need but it's really much better (and more confusing sometimes until you know what you do). There are many tutorials out there to learn about the options. I have only used carbonfil formfutura, the one from colorfabb it's unused until I get a new nozzle. FF CF sticks so easy to the crystal at 70C or cold with bluetape. It just sticks. But also For what I saw the other day on a friends house the cf of colorfabb actually prints much harder objects. No idea yet

Edited September 5, 2015 by Guest

[Labern 773]

I'm finding that when the fans come on it under extrudes for that layer and every layer the fan speeds up. I print those layers at 200% flow which overcomes that then print the rest at 120% flow.

[mendells 52]

Success! I am able to print XT-CF20 reliably now with some modifications.

1. Olsson Block with 0.4mm Hardened Steel ed3 nozzle.

2. Upgraded gear feeder with 5:1 planetary reduction (Gear Feeder, Geared Stepper)

3. Thin layer of PVA (Elmers) glue. Diluted 3:1 with water and spread with a paper towel over heated bed.

Machine Settings:

E-Steps per 1mm filament: 443.46

Cura Settings:

Layer Height: 0.1mm

Print Speed: 50mm/s

Initial Layer Thickness: 0.2mm

Bottom Layer Speed: 250

Outer shell Speed: 30

Travel Speed: 250mm/s

Material Settings:

Print Temp: 245C

Bed Temp: 70C

Flow Rate: 100%

Fans: 50%

Had one bad spot, not sure what happened there. The cube is measuring a little on the high side, 20.1, but otherwise looks very good.

 

Sorry the video is so dark. Its our old Ultimaker and the LEDs are all but dead.

[Artiz 27]

Hi Guys (newbie)

Just got my UM2 extnd specifically for printing with XT-CF20.

I found all your recommendations and advice here and felt obliged to say much thanks to all of you for all your helpful comments... massive help so BIG UP to everyone!

[Artiz 27]

Tried ABS and PLA which are pretty rubbish really when compared to XT CF-20.

Takes a little getting used to of course but some of my results have been outstanding.

I'm trying to build a speargun prototype so I need it to be waterproof and it is... I left a printed part in water overnight with no visible issues.

I need precision for screw holes etc so any warping or shrinkage would make it useless... I get none of either.

I need strength... and providing you orientate correctly the strength is unbelievable.

I use canned Air Freshner on build plate glass... works wonders and is cheap as chips.

Post production with super fine sandpaper gives it an even more beautiful matt finish.

Hot nozzle 250-260

Material flow 120%+

Build plate 50

Infill more than 50% - useless lower cos it dries so quickly

Lower overall speed also helps through tricky layers

Good luck

Edited October 14, 2015 by Guest

[insight01 3]

Artiz, do you use canned Air Freshner on the build plate glass for adhesion? Which brand?

seriously?

[Artiz 27]

Artiz, do you use canned Air Freshner on the build plate glass for adhesion? Which brand?

seriously?

 

I do (any brand) if I've got nothing else... I presume its probably the CFC's in the aerosol which help. I tend to use a clear matt Valspar aerosol sealer from B&Q now tho cos I also spray my parts with it too... loads more expensive and very smelly of course but the finish is epic.

I get the feeling most aerosols will help with plate adhesion tho... nothing like a bit of research... specially when you're desperate!

Edited December 9, 2015 by Guest

[mendells 52]

I've run about 1500g of XT-CF20 using one hardened steel E3D nozzle and I am starting to see some visible wear. The length has only changed by 0.06mm (.002in) but the tip has rounded out fairly significantly. While it hasn't had a huge impact on printing performance it has changed it a little. Prints tend to curl or show some signs of under-extrusion. While this isn't ideal it is still a vast improvement over the brass or even the stainless steel nozzles.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Guest

[Nicolinux 288]

Hi,

I have some more success with it. I am printing with an experimental nozzle with a jewel tip and so far the quality is perfect. Just every now and then it misses some areas on a layer. I do hear the feeder motor skip back when it misses - or to put it differently, the feeder skips back and thus it under extrudes a bit - but why? The PTFE coupler is new and the nozzle is not clogged.

Btw. I bought "3DLac" which I guess is the same cheap stuff @Artiz uses, but much more expensive - damn

Print settings:

 

• layer height - 0.2
  
• temp - 260
  
• speed - 50
  

 

[Artiz 27]

Hi,

I have some more success with it. I am printing with an experimental nozzle with a jewel tip and so far the quality is perfect. Just every now and then it misses some areas on a layer. I do hear the feeder motor skip back when it misses - or to put it differently, the feeder skips back and thus it under extrudes a bit - but why? The PTFE coupler is new and the nozzle is not clogged.

Btw. I bought "3DLac" which I guess is the same cheap stuff @Artiz uses, but much more expensive - damn

Print settings:

 

• layer height - 0.2

• temp - 260

• speed - 50

 

 

I sometimes get the same line skip problem which I reckon is probably a little speck or few specks of carbon getting caught in the nozzle which takes a moment to clear... it does seem that sometimes my layers don't bond that well too hence using a sealer... I've also used super glue for that problem. Overall I reckon it tends to dry/cure very quickly making it quite a tricky filament... but strength wise I'm guessing there is nothing much else like it yet.

BTW Nice prints (& photos) @Nicolinux

[obus3d 8]

I also had some succes with the same settings, see:

Edited January 7, 2016 by Guest
photo links did not work

[Artiz 27]

I love the finish of the XT CF-20 looks fantastic... one thing to add from my experience though... XT CF-20's real or integral strength comes when you orientate the print lengthways rather than printing upwards which you can actually see in your photos above. The smaller pipe which has been printed lengthways shows the stronger melded layers... whereas the larger pipe printed upwards sometimes suffers from a lack of layer adhesion in my experience.

Having said that I do splice most of my prints/designs into 2 halves and then bond them together for future injection moulding purposes rather than making the 3D print finish my priority... swings and roundabouts as they say!

Edited January 7, 2016 by Guest

[LePaul 312]

With the announcement of the Ultimaker 2+ and the improved feeder, I wonder if that will make a big difference ? Are there different nozzles that one should use for the Carbon Fiber material for best results? There's been a lot of experimentation in this thread and I am impressed!

[obus3d 8]

I've experimented with this as well but since you need a continuous flow of material for the best result, printing supports gave me a real headache and messes up the nice finish of the material. The smaller pipe does not touch the ground (this may be hard to see in te pictures so I placed it this way to minimize surface damage and printing problems due to supports. And as the fitting of the material had to be perfect and strong inside the bigger tube I thought that this was the best way to go. In my case the print was the end result and had to have a nice finish, a perfect fit and strong. Although CF-20 has some real cons in respect to the "flexibility" of printing, I'm quite happy it eventually came out this way. However I could not make very detailed prints with this so far. Texts don't work as I had hoped, and I had to print solid (100% infill).

 

I love the finish of the XT CF-20 looks fantastic... one thing to add from my experience though... XT CF-20's real or integral strength comes when you orientate the print lengthways rather than printing upwards which you can actually see in your photos above. The smaller pipe which has been printed lengthways shows the stronger melded layers... whereas the larger pipe printed upwards sometimes suffers from a lack of layer adhesion in my experience.

Having said that I do splice most of my prints/designs into 2 halves and then bond them together for future injection moulding purposes rather than making the 3D print finish my priority... swings and roundabouts as they say!

 

[obus3d 8]

Hardened steel is the way to go for this material. I bought it as a set including a 0,4mm nozzle from ColorFabb. I'ts not cheap but works for me so far. I don't know if printing with smaller nozzles will be possible with this material. I haven't tested it because i don't have a proper nozzle for this.

 

With the announcement of the Ultimaker 2+ and the improved feeder, I wonder if that will make a big difference ?  Are there different nozzles that one should use for the Carbon Fiber material for best results?  There's been a lot of experimentation in this thread and I am impressed!

 

[Nicolinux 288]

The hardened steel is out of stock at E3D :/

Regarding filament flow, @onkelgeorg had a good idea. One should measure the filament diameter. My roll features diameter measurements that tend to converge around 2.90mm. This would explain some hickups when the printer tries to push in more filament because it thinks it is thinner (2.85 default diameter set in the filament profile).

I know, we all should measure the filament and set it correctly, but I am sure that most people just don't care or forget about it. One starts to tinker only when problems arise

[Nicolinux 288]

Alright, nailed it!

Printed with "spiralize" and it is water tight. I think the "real" filament diameter really helped. Tomorrow I will try my first 10 hour print job. Fingers crossed.

But one thing still bothers me. When the print is finished, the nozzle looks like it was smeared in molten filament - one can barely recognize the shape. I guess this is unavoidable right?

[neotko 1,417]

Carbon filaments drip quite a lot, like wood filaments. To avoid my nozzle getting all dirty I try to keep combing to a minimum and fans off all the time.

Carbon Formfutura and colorfabb are quite prone to get parts drag by the nozzle. I try to make also the first layer very very slow and with a bit more distance than normal so the first layer it's as clean as posible from nozzle dragging. Anyway for long prints I use to just use a tweezers and get the excess from the nozze after 2-3hs or so (ninja style).

Edited January 7, 2016 by Guest

[Nicolinux 288]

You got me at "ninja style". I guess I'll hug the printer tomorrow for 10 hours straight

[Labern 773]

I found that XT-CF20 soaked up water like mad. That tended to effect under extruded layers. Once it jammed up solid and had to replace the PTFE coupler. The steam filled the bowden tube with water droplets.

Drying it certainly helped.