Ultimaker 2 default nozzle size is 0.46 in Cura

[Geva 0]

Hello, I'm working with a friend's Ultimaker 2, to my understanding the nozzle size it comes with is 0.4mm, yet in Cura for the Ultimaker 2 machine setting every preset (Fast/Normal/High/Ult) is set to 0.46mm nozzle. Why is that so?

[Nicolinux 288]

Hi,

I think this is done to improve quality. You can always "lie" about the nozzle size to produce some interesting effects. It doesn't help to understand how things work though

I am not using the printing profiles at all and have set the nozzle size to 0.4mm.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I think .46 with a 0.4 nozzle is very strange, it will create gaps between lines....

Looking at the latest beta cura the default set for 0.4 nozzle is 0.35

I would love to see some test results on how UM came to the default profiles.

[cloakfiend 995]

Ive done a lot of printing with fake large nozzles and the only benefit i saw was better bridging. But the downsize is oozing, side walls not touching and flat surfaces dont quite meet. In cura 15.4.2 the nozzle deault is most definitely not .46. I used 0.6 setting for a 0.4 nozzle though so they dialled it way back thinking in my opinion it was the best compromise in terms of quality. The only way to see is to do a print with flat bits at .46 and .4 and judge for yourself, and welcome yourself to endless tinkering....lol

[Mandlbaur 0]

Try using quick print and then switching back to full settings and when it ask if you wish to override the settings say yes. It will then change the nozzle size to 0.46.

It does appear that the quick print mode defaults to 0.46. (Using Cura 15.04.4)

 

Ive done a lot of printing with fake large nozzles and the only benefit i saw was better bridging. But the downsize is oozing, side walls not touching and flat surfaces dont quite meet. In cura 15.4.2 the nozzle deault is most definitely not .46. I used 0.6 setting for a 0.4 nozzle though so they dialled it way back thinking in my opinion it was the best compromise in terms of quality. The only way to see is to do a print with flat bits at .46 and .4 and judge for yourself, and welcome yourself to endless tinkering....lol

 

[nallath 1,120]

The profiles are made by 3D printing champion Paul Chandler. I have no idea what is exact process is, but i'm pretty sure he can explain exactly why he made those changes.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

The profiles are made by 3D printing champion Paul Chandler. I have no idea what is exact process is, but i'm pretty sure he can explain exactly why he made those changes.

@sandervG maybe Paul can explain in blog?

[Nicolinux 288]

Yes please, that would be very welcome.

I thought I'd understand the nozzle size extrusion correlation thingy but now I am like:

[neotko 1,417]

This is from the Trffid calibration guide

 

Eg; with an 0.35 nozzle, your maximum layer height is 0.35*0.8= 0.28mm and your extrusion width should be 0.4mm or greater. with an 0.5mm nozzle, your layer height can be up to 0.4mm, and an 0.25mm nozzle will give you 0.2mm max layer height.

http://reprap.org/wiki/Triffid_Hunter%27s_Calibration_Guide

The extrusion width it's calculated on the slicer, it's a matter of speed/feed/time. For me 0.50 extrusion and 0.30 are something I use daily for my fonts/keychain/shop but using too low or too high fluctuates the mm3 so you need to tune the speed to keep the quality.

[cloakfiend 995]

Considersimg 0.6 from a 0.4 nozzle works well, with the disadvantages ive already stated, i can imagine 0.46 to perhaps be perfect you'd only have to print a flat object to find out. If its smooth with no gaps in the layer then its a go! As a result you will also benefit from slightly better bridging as ive also shown in pics somewhere on the ob thread. Layer height quality is unaffected by fake settings. It also prints your model slightly quicker which is a plus and which is probably why its used in the quick print setting. I highly recommend people to experiment as i have had very positive results even using 0.04 layer heights which print in exactly the same time as 0.06 would but are sharper vertically. Im after quality not sheer speed, thats for devs and kids in my opinion. The main trouble ir retractions for me, it cools the nozzle too much and causes problems for the fake setting leading to an increase in temps as my main solution which some what works to an extent, depending on the amount of them per layer.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Guest

[Labern 774]

I have not sit down to get my head around all of this yet. Seeing the new cura has: Nozzle Size, Line Width and Wall Thickness is kind of confusing to think of the best way to get the results you want depending on the print you have.

Seeing this topic i just ran some tests with the benchy boat.

All have the same settings except I have altered the line width and wall thickness. note that i kept the nozzle size to 0.4

They were printed at 0.2 layer height, 210deg and 50mm/s So the end result may vary if you alter any of these settings.

Based on the 0.46 setting I started by printing with a line width of 0.34 which is 0.06 under the nozzle size, then 0.40 line width followed by 0.46. I did one test with the wall thickness twice the nozzle width and another twice the line thickness.

But in the end i was surprised but the end result as it was the opposite to what i was expecting.

Both of the 0.34 line width results are the best out of all of them and progressively get worse from there.

I guess the next test is to alter the nozzle size??

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I'm not surprised... considering the profiles in new cura also use a default line width smaller than the nozzle size. Keep those results coming... THANKS for testing!

[yellowshark 153]

Hmn interesting. On curved/sloped undersides, I got a much better result from a 0.8 nozzle than I did with a 0.4 nozzle. That would suggest the opposite that better results are made with a thicker line. No real idea why; my guess was that because there was a wider path of material being laid down then there was a wider path for the next layer to sit on/cling to, increasing the adhesive surface area.

[Labern 774]

Yes that probably is true but it's about line width vs nozzle size. If you had printed it with a 0.7 line width it may have looked even nicer.

[yellowshark 153]

So how wide would the line be, .8, .7 or something else?

[nallath 1,120]

Due to the nozzle confusion, the new Cura has a setting called line width. This means that we don't have to change the nozzle size any more when we want to use a different size from the actual nozzle size.

[DidierKlein 729]

So i had a training on the new Cura last week (thumbs up to Jeroen for the great training).

That line width thing is a very interesting addon to the new Cura Beta.

So basically they did some tests and found out that nozzle sizes have all a tolerance (based on the quality of the manufacturing). The accepted tolerance value for a nozzle is -0.05mm to +0.05mm.

When your nozzle is really 0.40mm, a line width or shell thickness (in the old cura) of 0.40mm works well. If your nozzle is 0.45mm then it also works well. When your nozzle is 0.35mm pressure will build up in the nozzle resulting in a worse surface quality.

Setting the line width to 0.35 gives the best results, because it prevents that pressure build up in the nozzle.

To calculate it, you have to set the line width to 7/8th of the nozzle size. People who have access to the closed beta will see that the Ultimaker 2+ profiles for different nozzles have these values precalculated

[neotko 1,417]

So when you buy a precision made nozzle (e3d, ultimaker, 3dsolex) you pay top price for a 0.05 error? Sounds quite weird. But if you say so!

[DidierKlein 729]

I'm just reflecting the information i have!

I have not myself the tools to measure nozzle tips, if anyone has some please check your nozzles! I'm not saying that all nozzles are 0.35mm but that it can be, and that from the extensive tests they made the safe value is 0.35mm (but varies depending on your actual set up)

[neotko 1,417]

Don't shoot the mailman indeed

But if that's true. If you push 0.46 filament on 0.40 (as default as post says) then you are assuming more preassure build up by default, unless your nozzle it's 0.45 with that error margin...

[cloakfiend 995]

im pretty sure mine is 0.4 as the surface is as smooth as silk on flat prints. Seeing as this level of accuracy is simply too small for me to measure and i assume 99% of the other casual printer users out there ill just continue to simply experiment to see what works best for me. For that exact reason i find presets a bit pointless considering they may or may not be suitable for all. Just like temps and other things. I fully understand it needs to be taken into account from an engineering point of view but its something that id rather figure out for myself from a practical aspect as all the variables from filament diameter to actual nozzle width is really not something i want to start taking into consideration. Im just gonna stick to the old cura that i know.

It just seems to be overcomplicating things instead of simplifying them. Too many settings are unnecessary in my opinion. So flow has been rolled into the line width somehow and thats in addition to the nozzle size?

Does that mean i can tell my printer my nozzle is 0.6 when its really 0.4 and still get a 0.6 line simply by telling it i want a 0.6 line? If not, im confused.

Many people still refer to their nozzles as 4mm which i find quite amusing.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Guest

[neotko 1,417]

I preffer to be in control the how to do. But for just 'print' I focus on the results.

If you want you can print 0.8 with a 0.4 but there's a point where the precision it's lost. I poated long ago how I toyed with nozzle sizes on s3d. And it's a very handy tool. I use it for small texts. Some of them I do them at 0.50 others at 0.32 but at some speeds you can't go higher or lower. But now if they say top price nozzles ain't as precise as they sell it. That's a game changer since I never saw a warning about that like happens on filament size.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Guest

[cloakfiend 995]

If i buy a 0.4 nozzle. I expect it to be 0.4 not 0.35 just like a 0.25 nozzle should be 0.25 and not 0.2.

I dont see why they just dont measure them when the make them? I would expect them to have the right tools to do so considering its their business?

So much for quality control.

[neotko 1,417]

Indeed that's what worries me. I expect weird stuff from my china nozzles but not from e3d/3dsolex/ultimaker

[nallath 1,120]

If i buy a 0.4 nozzle. I expect it to be 0.4 not 0.35 just like a 0.25 nozzle should be 0.25 and not 0.2.

I dont see why they just dont measure them when the make them? I would expect them to have the right tools to do so considering its their business?

So much for quality control.

 

There is quality control, but I imagine that some tolerances are simply not reachable for a certain price. Yes you can have a nozzle with a 0.4mm size and a <0.01 mm tolerance, but what if you'd have to pay 2-5 times as much for that? Would that be worth it? That's pretty much the dilemma that you always face when making hardware.