VERY challenging "Gaps Between Infill and Outline" solving

[bastienb 12]

All I can say is that I used this brand for a year (I printed like 6km of filament) and I never had any problem with them. I will caliper the one I am going to use this afternoon if it can help you.

[bastienb 12]

Picture of the day! I re-launched the calibration file with the new PLA and a new 0.4 nozzle (so I leveled the bed). I also tried again to print the part I need to be printed:

Better on the test file, but still not good on the normal file...

[bastienb 12]

** for the test file I speeded the very last layers of the print to 150% because I had to switch the printers off, that's why it looks hollow

[bastienb 12]

Ok, the second one is making the same thing now, not as worse but still, there are gaps getween the infill and the outline!

I am so desperate... I spend more than 5000€ for these two and after a year of PLA printing it's like I just have to dump them and buy new ones! The fun part is that you are 2 very experimented guys, I am a mechanical engineer, the shop that sold me the things is involved and still, it's not solvable... I really do not know what to do!

(Oh, I am very grateful about you helping me btw, thanks again).

[neotko 1,417]

I'm really out of ideas. At least has improved. But not good enough yet. I will soend time re reading all and think.

[bastienb 12]

Thanks neotko. I will stay available through the we not to miss you if you need some more testing. I can give you all pics/videos you need.

(have a nice evening )

[neotko 1,417]

Reviewing all. Why your nozzle isn't from UM or at least E3D? I mean, I have test many other nozzles and 90% of them suck compared to that ones. Can you do an atomic and show again now that thr nozzle is for 2.85?

[bastienb 12]

Because I trusted the shop... I did want to pay more than 10€ for a no-name nozzle (Makershop) so I asked my local shop. It sold me a 5€ no-name one but which has been used by them. So I trusted it =). But I do think it comes from AE...

Btw, I searched a bit about nozzles to be able to answer properly to your questions and I was wondering if buying this nozzle would be a good idea -> NOZZLE

Alternatively, I was wondering if this block combined with this nozzle would help me printing with more reliability... As I have to make lots of parts.

Honestly, I am not comfortable with my current nozzles, and even if the problem is elsewhere, I would be able to know it is not the nozzle!

Next thing I doubt about is the glassplate, and again, I find the 35€ non-official neither tracable one from Makershop a bit expensive...

[neotko 1,417]

Sorry to say this but indeed the nozzle is key for good quality. For example:

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/21294-cheap-china-nozzles

I never used 3dsolex nozzles for now but they are well crafted. I used E3D and they work very nice but they are no match for the Olsson Ruby Nozzle. Ofc is expensive but can print very good pla and any cf abrasive material (it also prints better overhangs).

[bastienb 12]

Ok I got the point! So do you advise me to get the 3dsolex block and nozzle? (matchless) Or do I just by the regular 3dsolex nozzle?

[neotko 1,417]

Ok I got the point! So do you advise me to get the 3dsolex block and nozzle? (matchless) Or do I just by the regular 3dsolex nozzle?

If you already have the olsson block just a E3D nozzle will do. I have no experience with 3dsolex nozzles but once, and it wasn't as good as E3D. New nozzles from 3dsolex seems very good for their V2 block, but I muat admit that I have one on a bag but never had to use it since the ruby just can deal with almost anything.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

http://3dsolex.com/product-category/ultimaker_2/um2-nozzles/

I'm using the regular 3dsolex nozzles and I'm pretty happy with them....

[bastienb 12]

Ok so I guess I will just have to wait for the nozzle to arrive! What about upgrading the feeder (bondtech)? Would it help?

[neotko 1,417]

Ok so I guess I will just have to wait for the nozzle to arrive! What about upgrading the feeder (bondtech)? Would it help?

For your problem don't think so. But as a general upgrade, is a very very good upgrade.

[Torgeir 242]

No, a  Bondtech would not help here. This problem is made due to high compression of the filament and it is actually working as a compressed spring. When there is a retract there is still feed from the nozzle due to the compression effect. This is why your print have all this issues. High friction in the nozzle decrease flow and make the pressure rice at the input of the extruder. So more feeding pressure here would not help.

Edit. ops did not saw your answer neotko.

Thanks.

Torgeir.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Guest

[bastienb 12]

@neotko. I really liked the spring explanation, it talked a lot to me.

Btw, for now I will have to wait for the nozzles to arrive. Then I will clean/tune/install (both of my printers). And I will do it carefully and using all the topic's information. Also I will take pictures (some relevant ones, and some generic ones in case). Hoping very hard it is a "crap nozzle issue".

Thanks again guys and see you at the end of the week!

[bastienb 12]

Hey guys! I am still waiting for the 3dSolex nozzle...

[bastienb 12]

Ok so I have just got the new nozzles from 3DSolex. It is very impressive how the flow of plastic has improved. You can still see the problem though... Even if it is less important.

Oh and I also changed the bowden tube by a better one from 3DSolex too. Here is the result:

[bastienb 12]

I contacted the Makershop Support, they told me to:

- use another nozzle/filament

- check the belts tension

- check the axes alignement (using this)

- flash the printer's firmware

Here is the result :

[bastienb 12]

I have ordered a new stock buildplate, maybe this will help...

[neotko 1,417]

Dunno men, I think that is impossible to get a perfect flat bottom layers without making the bed a bit, tinny bit, more close to the nozzle. Judging a bottom layer doesn't really puts much info. A bottom layer can be not perfect for many thousand reasons, the only weird part I see is that one of the circles looks bad, but the gaps on a bottom layer look normal if your calibration isn't perfect or you don't force a bit the bed to be slightly-tiny-little-bit closer to the nozzle.

[bastienb 12]

Yeah sry... I re-made the test with the 5 parts. I used different cura parameters to try to understand the problem.

Here is a result with 0.4mm for the line width. You can see the circles are OK but the squares are KO (the opposite as usual):

[neotko 1,417]

That looks like just slicer settings. Can you check the gcode view and post it?

[bastienb 12]

The problems I have with puting the GCODE at fault are these:

- How could the same GCODE be printed differently between the two UM2+?

- How could CURA change the print property along X/Y? (print KO top left, OK bottom righ)

[tinkergnome 927]

The problems I have with puting the GCODE at fault are these:

- How could the same GCODE be printed differently between the two UM2+?

- How could CURA change the print property along X/Y? (print KO top left, OK bottom righ)

 

Well, there are several other possible reasons...

(double-) check the material settings on the printers. Temperature, fan, diameter, flow... all are exactly equal? Compare all motions settings (acceleration, retraction and motor current) as well.

Or a mechanical issue, like sliding 8mm axis, 6mm rods are "bananas", loose belts or something similar.