Soft PLA troubles

[gr5 2,172]

On 1/2/2018 at 3:00 AM, fergazz said:

I'm quite curious to try Capricorn bowden tube, the dark blue one, seems to be very slippery... JAMN approved it.

3dsolex.com sells a super slippery bowden and if you are in the USA I am the distributor for those here: thegr5store.com

 

[cjs 34]

On 2.1.2018 at 2:00 PM, SandervG said:

I'm not saying oil is the holy grail, but it is an easier thing to try than making modifications to the feeder or bowden tube. {...}

Anyway, usually there are different roads that lead to Rome @chuckmcgee , did you have any success in the meantime?

 

You are right! There are different roads leading to Rome  My personal preference is to reduce involved parts and not to add something, which could lead to problems in the long run. Oil related problems are also quite hard to trouble shoot later on  I also don't like the fact to re apply oil every X meters. What if I forget it and ruin a long print? 

I actually started to design the Bondtech DDG to make it easier to use Bondtech dual drive gears on an Ultimaker. It's really quite easy. @SandervG I think I may be able to convince Martin to send you one unit for review if you like. 

 

On 2.1.2018 at 2:00 PM, SandervG said:

The constrained filament path argument is by the way not related to why you would want to use oil. Oil is there to reduce friction in the bowden tube. 

Don't you want to reduce the friction in order to stop the filament from buckling up? Therefore I think they are actually somewhat related.

 

Anyway most important thing is that @chuckmcgee was/is able to print his parts with a flexible filament! Did you have success ? 

Edited January 7, 2018 by cjs

[SandervG 1,521]

21 hours ago, cjs said:

Don't you want to reduce the friction in order to stop the filament from buckling up? Therefore I think they are actually somewhat related.

 

 

I understood that the constrained filament path was specifically aimed at closing off some free space in the feeder where potentially flexible filament could creep into, so before the bowden tube. I am not really aware of any oil problems, except if you apply too much and it undermines your bed adhesion. They are related in a way that they should both contribute to a successful flexible print yes. I can not argue with your theory of reducing the amount of parts, although I think removing parts can just as well lead to problems on the long run as adding parts does, with things you just don't see yet today.

 

Excuse me for asking if I should already know, but what does the DDG stand for? If I am not mistaken we're familiar with the 'regular' Bondtech feeder

Also, indeed still curious to hear from @chuckmcgee

 

[chuckmcgee 7]

Sorry for the delay all.  I had no luck with the filament I had and MatterHackers let me return it.  They gave me a couple samples of Soft PLA and Pro FLEX PLA that I will try, but I am not interested in trying the oil given the fact that it seems risky to me and the printer was a significant expense to me.  At this point, I am contemplating the Capricorn tubing as I have read a lot of good stuff about that - but not yet sure when I am going to purchase.

 

For now - my desire to print flex is on indefinite hold.  

 

I do appreciate all of the help and follow ups here, though.  What a great community!

[gr5 2,172]

DDG is the new bondtech feeder for UM printers.  It's MUCH cheaper because it uses the existing stepper motor instead of having bondtech supply one.  It looks almost identical to the existing "white" feeder aka UM2+ or UM3 feeder.  But it's different inside as it uses bondtech internals.

[chuckmcgee 7]

Just now, gr5 said:

DDG is the new bondtech feeder for UM printers.  It's MUCH cheaper because it uses the existing stepper motor instead of having bondtech supply one.  It looks almost identical to the existing "white" feeder aka UM2+ or UM3 feeder.  But it's different inside as it uses bondtech internals.

do you have a link?

[gr5 2,172]

On 1/7/2018 at 7:48 AM, cjs said:

I also don't like the fact to re apply oil every X meters. What if I forget it and ruin a long print? 

It's no big deal if you forget.  The oil doesn't just suddenly disappear and run out.  You can see tiny tiny oil droplets in the bowden and if you forget for a few meters they don't suddenly disappear but instead there's just fewer of them.  It really works amazingly well.  I can understand everyone's reluctance to try something that doesn't "make sense".  But it works well.  Don't complain without trying it yourself.

[gr5 2,172]

2 minutes ago, chuckmcgee said:

do you have a link?

http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/

[cjs 34]

On 8.1.2018 at 11:19 AM, SandervG said:

Excuse me for asking if I should already know, but what does the DDG stand for? If I am not mistaken we're familiar with the 'regular' Bondtech feeder

 

DDG stands for Dual Drive Gears and it's the quickest to install feeder upgrade for the Ultimaker as far as I have seen. (*Please correct me if you have seen a quicker feeder upgrade for the Ultimaker.)  This is due to the new design, which Martin (Bondtech) and I came up with. As @gr5 already said the shape is based on the supplied Ultimaker feeder to reduce part count which also reduces the upgrade price and also being a bit eco friendly (using the parts on hand instead of replacing good components with new ones and creating "waste"). 

You are probably familiar with the QR ( Quick Release), which works just as well but is a bit more complicated to install.  

 

On 8.1.2018 at 4:47 PM, gr5 said:

Don't complain without trying it yourself.

Not complaining  It's just an "ugly" fix/hack IMHO, but as already said there are a lot of ways to get to Rome. 

Do you need oil with the 3dsolex tubing or is it not slippery enough? 

 

@SandervG I assume Ultimaker has done a lot of test with flexible TPU material. Any research papers you can share? Does Ultimaker internally also use the oil method to print flexible filament reliable ? 

[SandervG 1,521]

I don't believe we do, but I remember it from 'the old days'. 

Re research papers, what kind of information would you be interested in? And I could see if I could fetch it. I don't think we have any 'ready to go' papers lying ready on someones desk no.. 

[cjs 34]

@SandervG I would be quite interested in papers describing how you create your print/material profiles for TPU, PLA and ABS if you can find any. Also it would be really interesting to know how you tested your geared feeder before release 

[fergazz 60]

On 02/01/2018 at 11:00 AM, SandervG said:

 

@fergazz , I don't know that one. Do you know what it is made of? And what is the inner diameter and outer diameter?

 

Sorry for the late reply, vacation period  

 

The blue dark bowden tube from Capricorn, named as XS premium, are made with PTFE and a misterious lubricity additive mixture. 

This technical specifications is related to the 1.75mm but I heard that they already made some 2.85mm. I will double check this information 

with sales department. 

[cjs 34]

On 18.1.2018 at 1:34 PM, cjs said:

@SandervG I would be quite interested in papers describing how you create your print/material profiles for TPU, PLA and ABS if you can find any. Also it would be really interesting to know how you tested your geared feeder before release 

Hey @SandervG did you happen to find something ?

[fergazz 60]

On 26/01/2018 at 4:07 AM, fergazz said:

 

Sorry for the late reply, vacation period  

 

The blue dark bowden tube from Capricorn, named as XS premium, are made with PTFE and a misterious lubricity additive mixture. 

This technical specifications is related to the 1.75mm but I heard that they already made some 2.85mm. I will double check this information 

with sales department. 

 

 

Capricorn bowden tube sales manager just send me an e-mail:

 

"Yes, we are working hard on getting our XS tubing released for 2.85mm printers.

Due to testing multiple XS sizes, to determine the best size. the release date got delayed. We're now planning to have it released early March.

We're planning to have it as ID:3.2mm OD: 6.35mm "

 

hummm, looks cool, just the right ID / OD size of my UM2 bowden tube!

 

 

 

[geert_2 557]

Maybe you at Ultimaker could ask a few samples to try them in your test lab? Might benefit both parties?