Bad customer service, missing part and refuse to reship

[benjamin-li 0]

For all those that have ordered, check the parts one by one carefully.

I made the mistake of not checking thoroughly and now, they refuse to resend me the part. I paid the the kit + the ulticontroller, they only sent me the electronic board for the ulticontroller, but not the main electronic board that should have come with the kit.

Now the customer service asked me to buy the board as a replacement for around 200 euro on the website as they blamed me for the fault of not checking.

Ultmaker don't guarantee they always ship the right part, and it is their policy not to replace it after a few weeks.

This level of customer service, I will never go back to ultimaker. I will just let it mothball and remember the lesson of not trusting a small startup like this one.

 

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi Benjamin, I am sorry you feel this level of frustration.

I think it is also fair to say that you have received your Ultimaker over a year ago.

We intend to have a customer friendly policy, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

We offered you free shipping, but you did not want this gesture.

If you feel like you still want take us up on the free shipping, please feel free to reach out to us.

I hope you have a nice day,

 

[calinb 11]

An "Imagine It, Make It" card is included in the kit box. I recommend that Ultimaking Ltd. print the terms on the card. The card should explicitly state how long a customer has to complete their inventory of parts in order to receive replacements free of charge, if part shortages or defects are discovered. In fact, it's ridiculous that the terms of the Ultimaker warranty (is there one?) are also not explicitly included and published.

I don't know about Europe but very few companies in the U.S. fail to offer a written warranty on their products and services. In the very few cases known to me where they don't offer a warranty, it's because they don't like the "consumer protection" government controls on warranties and the resulting obligations mandated by government, if any warranty whatsoever is offered, but these companies offer excellent customer service, nonetheless.

Benjamin, If your kit was lacking the Arduino board (it's not clear to me that's what you are missing), you can find some good deals on them stateside. Make sure you get one with the appropriate stepper motor drivers. It's not difficult to download the free Arduino IDE software and load the Marlin firmware yourself. You'll find plenty of people here that can help you and it won't cost you anywhere near 200 EUR--even including shipping!

Build your Ultimaker and use it. You've paid for it and might as well take care of the problem yourself.

 

[Daid 306]

From the shop terms:

https://shop.ultimaker.com/terms

 

7.4. Missing parts should be mentioned in writing or by e-mail to ULTIMAKER within fourteen (14) days after the delivering date.

 

And I don't think we actually do an exact 14 days, I would not be surprised if someone finds out a piece is missing within a month or two then we also replace it. But as Sander says, the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

 

 

 

I think his kit is lacking all electronics, not just the Arduino. These: https://shop.ultimaker.com/en/parts-and-upgrades/electronics-v1-5-7.html

 

[calinb 11]

Daid, That web page (which I've never seen before) is nine pages long when printed! I'll call it obfuscation! I'll wager there is simply no way that 90% plus of Ultimaking Ltd. customers are going to parse though all that crap, even if they manage to find the page.

Put the inventory reporting requirement on the card and in the box and your customers will almost certainly see it, read it, and be fairly notified and informed. A summary of the pertinent warranty terms would be good too, even if Ultimaking lawyers say the additional nine pages must follow a common sense summary of the warranty terms.

And yes--two weeks is far too short for the official time limit on this product.

 

[Daid 306]

Daid, That web page (which I've never seen before) is nine pages long when printed! I'll call it obfuscation! I'll wager there is simply no way that 90% plus of Ultimaking Ltd. customers are going to parse though all that crap, even if they manage to find the page.

 

Those are quite usual standard terms that you agree on before placing an order. I think you have to tick a box that you agree to these terms. But it only took me 2 minutes to find the page and the replacement bits part with the 2 weeks.

 

Put the inventory reporting requirement on the card and in the box and your customers will almost certainly see it, read it, and be fairly notified and informed. A summary of the pertinent warranty terms would be good too, even if Ultimaking lawyers say the additional nine pages must follow a common sense summary of the warranty terms.

 

Putting a card with "look we are not certain if your box is complete, could you check it yourself?" doesn't give you the best confidence in our product right? From a marketing stand point only an idiot or an engineer would do this.

 

[calinb 11]

At least you didn't say "only an idiot" would do this!

 

I've built one of these things: http://www.vansaircraft.com

 

16,000+ rivets and several thousands of hours in construction time. The requirement to promptly conduct an inventory was published on an easy to read information sheet with the kit. Van's is, by far, the most successful manufacturer of kitplanes in the world and has been for 40 years. So successful, in fact, that more new Lycoming piston aircraft engines are installed in Van's airplanes than any other airplane brand made, including commercially manufactured planes.

 

Guess engineers are just honest people and Van's doesn't seem to have any marketing problems!

 

Ultimaking Ltd. can take my feedback or leave it, but I have plenty of kit-building experience (other projects as well) and I'm not buying your reasoning!

 

 

Putting a card with "look we are not certain if your box is complete, could you check it yourself?" doesn't give you the best confidence in our product right? From a marketing stand point only an idiot or an engineer would do this.

 

[IRobertI 521]

Putting a card with "look we are not certain if your box is complete, could you check it yourself?" doesn't give you the best confidence in our product right? From a marketing stand point only an idiot or an engineer would do this.

 

What? This is common practice for a lot of products. I've seen that type of thing in anything from furniture, to TVs, high end digital SLRs, printers and cellphones. Nikon, Sony, Samsung, IKEA, HTC etc doesn't seem to have a problem admitting that mistakes happen so why should Ultimaker?

 

[Daid 306]

What? This is common practice for a lot of products. I've seen that type of thing in anything from furniture, to TVs, high end digital SLRs, printers and cellphones. Nikon, Sony, Samsung, IKEA, HTC etc doesn't seem to have a problem admitting that mistakes happen so why should Ultimaker?

 

Show me this "this should be in the box and you have X time to check it or we won't help you" card, because that's what calinb is suggesting.

 

[illuminarti 18]

Two weeks is too short for a kit like this, given that it could quite easily take someone more than two weeks to put together from date of receipt. Heck, mine sat in a box for well over a month because I was waiting for some time off to assemble it. Furthermore, it's far from trivial to even identify and understand what's in the box. Quite a lot of users end up with parts left over, and aren't sure what they're for or why. It doesn't seem impossible that the reverse would be true - that bits would be missing without realizing, at the very least until you get to the point of needing that part.

At the same time, some sort of limit is definitely reasonable. (Except in cases where UM knows verifiably that they definitely screwed up). A year does seem like its a bit excessive, and unlikely as a scenario.

However, given the complexity of the kit, and need for some sort of policy on it, it only seems fair and reasonable for Ultimaker to make everyone explicitly aware up front what the conditions are, and help/encourage them to do the right thing, via a note on the box, and a card inside. You might especially want to draw people's attention to checking for major/expensive parts inside such as electronics and motors. If a few screws are missing, its not the end of the world to supply those later on. At the end of the day, it's the right thing to do for the customers, and therefore for Ultimaker.

There's no shame in admitting the possibility of mistakes. Indeed, until y'all do, you can't begin to take steps to reduce the likelihood of them happening.

 

[illuminarti 18]

I think that there should be a very simple clear statement, in easy-to-read English that outlines the main points of the warranty, and the time frames involved, and explains how users can help themselves get the best out of (E.g., 'Check that you have the motors, electronics, and the right laser cut sheets, with no bits missing, as soon as possible'). It can refer to the online legalese for full details.

I think it should be included as a separate document, that is clearly marked as important and useful, and invites attention, however, not included 'on the back of' anything. Provided the warranties are reasonable and customer-friendly, there's no reason to hide them. Far better to get everyone on the same page, so there are no surprises. If they are unreasonable, then they need to be changed, not hidden.

 

[calinb 11]

No--I have not read it. My time is too valuable and life is too short to read nine pages of lawyer-inspired crap just to purchase a simple consumer device at retail. For a real estate acquisition, business contract, or loan--yes. For a simple retail purchase, I'm far from alone in saying that I ignore such nonsense (software is the worst and I never read the voluminous software user agreements either).

If you read all that stuff before you click "Agree" (and read it all again to parse for changes every time you update any software) you have a far different life and schedule than I!

Also, rather than making customers rely-on less than "rigid" policies and more favorable disposition when reporting kit shortages, I would prefer that Ultimaking, Ltd. publish a more lenient and reasonable policy, well in excess of the current published 14 day window.

 

Interesting discussion and some valid points.

@calinb: have you ever read you itunes terms & conditions? If you use it i bet you have never really read it, but everything is there. So it is with Ultimakers' policy but unlike Itunes we are not exactly rigid in our support policy, but lines need to be drawn somewhere.

 

[calinb 11]

I think that there should be a very simple clear statement, in easy-to-read English that outlines the main points of the warranty, and the time frames involved, and explains how users can help themselves get the best out of <snip>

I think it should be included as a separate document, that is clearly marked as important and useful, and invites attention, however, not included 'on the back of' anything.

 

This is exactly what Van's Aircraft does with their airplane kits, and "real" airplane kits are, by far, the most complex kits ever developed in any industry. The Van's sheet contains both the inventory requirement and time limit for claims and hints on unpacking and getting started. Owner Dick VanGrunsven ("Van") is an honest engineer (of Dutch descent, even ) and not at all embarrassed to admit that shortages sometimes occur in the kit contents. Like I said, he's not worried about any marketing implications here.

>Show me this "this should be in the box and you have X time to check

>it or we won't help you" card, because that's what calinb is suggesting.

 

Myself, I have no interest in proving to Ultimaking Ltd. what constitutes sound business policy and excellent customer service. I'm certainly not going to submit comparative evidence in order to support any of my suggestion. Again, UM, Ltd. can take the suggestions contained this thread or leave them.

 

[joergen 2]

I think customer service should be just that, servicing the customer. Even if the customer is wrong, or did the mistake of not putting the issue into the right words (maybe because not everybody is a native english speaker or maybe because it is about 3D printing which can be quite overwhelming for new users without engineering degree), it is customer service's role to solve the issue. In my own company, that would mean 'at almost any cost', the customer is almost always right, and happy customers are good customers, unhappy customers should become happy customers asap, and arguing with a customer puts your company almost always on the loosing side.

so the OP decided to wait a bit with assembly, and discovered that his kit was incomplete. this can happen, the kits are packed by humans, and humans make mistakes. the simple and right solution would be to say: "oh interesting you noticed the missing parts so late, but let us help you and ship the missing ones right away, sorry for the trouble". boom, done. maybe even throw 500gr of PLA in the box, for free. at no point should there be any arguing with the customer, unless the customer did something silly on their end with no fault for UM (i.e. "we made a bonfire with all the wood parts of the UM, and now we can't assemble the printer") (that would be a case where UM can draw a line).

I think with Sander in charge of customer service many many things have improved at UM over the last months, and I'll be looking forward to see even more improvements.

 

[phanc60844 0]

The items are grouped together so I would say that its not unreasonable to check that you have the main groups available before you start. You dont have to check it down to the last nut and bolt before you start ,i would say that you are more likely to loose something that way. As for complaining over a year after receiving the item, I'm inclined to go with Ultimaker on that one. As for the T's& C's that Daid has pointed out, they also say that they don't guarantee electronic components. Well if anyone does have issues with their electronics it would be worth pointing out to them that as a supplier, ultimaker have a responsibility to supply merchantable goods that should last a reasonable amount of time.The fact that it is a kit means nothing, you can buy a new video card for your PC that you are building in component form, the 12 month waranty still stands. In the UK a standard domestic waranty is 12 months, however , even with that , you can claim up to 6 years for larger items. so Ultimaker ,you may have T's & C's ,however I'm not sure that all of them are valid or even legal ,at least for the UK.

Paul

 

[calinb 11]

It is the same in my business too. We cannot afford to have even a single unhappy customer! The cost analysis is simple on its own. How much does it cost to fulfill a customer's needs and expectations vs. the cost of ill will and damage to a company's reputation? Usually, the answer is a no-brainer!

I know of a few companies in a variety of fields that sell premium products and they will replace parts, or even the entire product, if necessary, to the original purchaser (and sometimes subsequent owners) in perpetuity.

I'm not saying that UM, Ltd. is in a position to do this, economically, but these other companies do not have any notion that they "have to draw the line somewhere."

 

<snip>

In my own company, that would mean 'at almost any cost', the customer is almost always right, and happy customers are good customers, unhappy customers should become happy customers asap, and arguing with a customer puts your company almost always on the loosing side.

<snip>

 

[snowygrouch 1]

"only an idiot or an engineer"

This is an my fave quote of the week and is going on my facebook page ASAP.

 

[illuminarti 18]

Alexander - In this context, I wasn't exactly suggesting that the intention of putting the terms on the invoice was an attempt to hide them necessarily... just that I don't think its the most obvious place to put them. The point of being open and upfront with customers about this stuff is to take the initiative to engage them openly.

While it's not unheard of for them to be on invoices in the UK or US (the places I have experience of), it's again more likely to be legalese, or stuff directly related to returning a package. It might be a place people look for contact info if there's a problem but not for must-read advice and instructions. I also think that invoice/payment paperwork is more likely to get immediately filed away separately - especially in any kind of business environment.

So I would definitely recommend an attractive, eye catching sheet on the very top of the package (and maybe the bottom too, in case people open the box upside down!) that is clearly marked 'Important - Please read'.

 

[snowygrouch 1]

I just bought a used laptop from UK, when it arrived in Germany there was an A4 sheet of paper in the top.

"You have 7 days to report damage/missing items/other problems"

"Anything reported after this will not be repaired"

"After reporting you have 14 days to return the package to us"

"If the fault is replicated by us, the full postage will be refunded after repair and re-delivery"

This stuff should not be left in the corner of some corner of the website.

 

[eldoreth 0]

Dear all, after having read this and other posts I did make the jump and ordered the kit + ulticontroller on the 23th July, the 24 th processed and shipped, today 25 th received! Fantastic, I am in Belgium and took the insured world express shipping.

Just done with checking all the contents against the contents in the "make" section and I think all is there.

Just be carefull since the batch 6 contents relate to rev3 bots and the new one I got is revision 4.

I'll start painting now......jipee

[12much 0]

Guys,

come on, read the topic starters Subject, take notice of the quote that refers to:" after several weeks" and the fact (not mentioned by himself though) that the Ulti is already catching dust in some dark corner for over a year....

The first reply from Calinb states an important rule in community's like these:

 

You'll find plenty of people here that can help you and it won't cost you anywhere near 200 EUR--even including shipping!

Build your Ultimaker and use it. You've paid for it and might as well take care of the problem yourself.

 

Bravo, I like your attitude.

But than the tone changes, and even an offer to pay for the shipping costs is waved away as non important in which the discussion, with all respect to every legitimated suggestion, is lead away from the facts.

You buy an expensive toy, you don't check what you got and then you leave it there for over a year.

You don't miss a bag of screws, or a plate with lasercut parts, no, the biggest electronic part inside packaged in a box from 22 x 15 x 5,5cm.

After one year you claim the board including the shipping costs at UM.

What do you expect? Be realistic, take the offer about the shipping costs or take the offer from calinb. You know what? I'll make you even a better offer: you pay for the shipping, I'll send you a bare mainboard for free, you buy the Arduino of your choice (much cheaper on Ebay) download the firmware and start to enjoy 3D printing.

There is one condition: try to be honest, gentle, helpful and understanding to this community.

If I'm honest, I find your topic a little deceiving and manipulating. And I don't like the tone that's being set. You are a member of this community for exactly one month, this is your first and only topic. If you want to be here, be here. Take your loss, (you'll never ever do something like that again, that's the positive side) take my offer and make contact with Calinb, build the damn thing and start contributing to this forum with beautiful artifacts.

To make it clear, I don't have anything to do with UM, I'm busy making some major modifications to my first Ulti and building my second one in Rexroth Extrusion on a bigger scale. I made you an offer to help you and this forum, that's it.

Have a nice day and happy printing.

@Eldoreth

Good for you, nice attitude!! Have lots of fun.

Btw: Put plastic in it instead of paint :-P :-P

 

[LePaul 354]

To the gentleman that mentioned Van's Aircraft...excellent! I am a private pilot and know their aircraft well.

But as to what the original poster stated...I guess customer service is different in Europe than in the United States. Here, we are used to the manufacturer going above and beyond to make sure the customer has everything they need and is satisfied.

I would rather have a satisfied customer, with everything they need to print...and show off the wonderful print this device is capable of.

Glad I found this thread...I'll be careful to quickly inventory my kit and make sure i have eerything I need.

 

[LAURENTIU 0]

I bought a printer Ultimaker 2 with "Olsson block free promotional offer".

I recived the package without Olsson block and when I complained about this situation to Ultimaker.

Someone Sabrina told me that they don't want to send me the Olsson block, after they were asked me to send pictures

with printer and items that I have recived several times.

If you'll want to buy something from them check the package twice when you'll receive it.

Edited February 15, 2016 by SandervG

[vince805 4]

I bought a printer Ultimaker 2 with  "Olsson block free promotional offer".

I recived the package without Olsson block and when I  complained about this situation to  Ultimaker.

Someone Sabrina van Beem told me that they don't want to send me the Olsson block, after they were asked me to send pictures

with printer and items that I have recived several times.

If you'll want to buy something from them check the package twice when you'll receive it.

 

I understand you are frustrated but now you are starting to spam the forums by posting the exact same thing in 2 and 3 year old threads.

We all hope the Ultimaker does right and you get what you paid for but spamming the forums is not going to help.