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fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

spindle_plate attempt blue PLAtempnumber2number1spindle plateretry At 0.1 Mm detailretry At 0.1 Mmnumber4fifth layerreadyspindle plate1litlle warpwill It Fitperfect Fiteffect skipped layer

spindle plate

Hi there,

Printing of small objects is improving. However I need a larger object for another machine we're building. I'm not succeeding in printing the first layer. See pictures attatched.

I've tried ranging temp from 220 - 230

printspeed 70 mm/sec and even speed reduced with 50%

level the bed 5 times. .25mm under the (heated) nozzle and .30mm under the heated Nozzle

Changed Filament.

Unclogged the Nozzle (because I thought it was clogged)

then printed a small Item and tat went well. Started the big object and there it was again. Failure

Searched this forum and other forums.

Closed up the frontend of the printer with aluminium foil in order to maintain a constant temp in the print area.

I'm out of idea's right now.

any suggestions

grtz

Aad

number1

number2

temp

spindle_plate attempt blue PLA

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

0.25-0.30mm is too much, you want it closer than that. Use a piece of standard printing paper like the guide says and slide it under the nozzle. When you feel a bit of drag on the paper, like it's scraping it slightly, you're were you want to be. A standard piece of paper is ~0.1mm thick.

If you have it levelled at a 0.3mm distance and print the first layer at 0.3mm that's a combined distance of 0.4mm which is huge in our world. I never go above 0.2mm for the first layer btw.

70mm/s on the first layer sounds a bit fast to me as well, it can work but slowing it down will likely give you better results. I know it sucks to sit there and wait for aaages on the first layer but it's better than having it fail on the last pass and have to start all over again.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

OK IRobertI,

I'll try that. I use an industrial feeler for levelling. so its 0.1 mm now and the speed down to 50 mm/sec. I'm patience so and don't care if it takes the whole evening (and it probably will take that long)

It's just frustrating that the same model prints nice at 25% scal and nothing at 100%.

it looks like the nozzle gets to hot after appr. 5 cm of infill

I'll keep you posted on the results

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Sorry IRobertI,

that didn't do the trick>

The fiorst few lines were ok, but it stopped extruding at exactly the same spot. There is planty of room from filament from the spool.

What on earth can it be. I'm lost.

here the prints

retry At 0.1 Mm detail

retry At 0.1 Mm

regards

Aad

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

What do you have the initial layer thickness set to in Cura? Make sure it's at least 0.2mm.

What layer height are you printing at?

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Hi Iluminarti,

initial layer thickness .3 mm

layer thickness .2 mm

Bottom layer speed 20 mm/sec

Fan off

rest speed 50 mm/s

Heated plate 60 degrees celsius

Shell thickness .8 mm ( but not realized aborted it before first layer is finished)

Temp 220 and 225 (two attempts)

material flow 100% and second attempt 80%

symptoms: First lines very smooth and nice melted

after circa 12 lines of appr. 10 cm length lines become thinner. little peaks are formed. after two lines it stutters and within the next two lines it is completely over. There is no extrusion anymore. The bowdendriver tries to push up th filament but fail to push it through the extruder.

Remedies I tried:

Complete cleaned the nozzle (disassembled , cleaned it completly, assembled). The same print scaled down to 25% cam out very well. Tried it at full scale. Well you can see the result.

grtz

Aad

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

This is odd - it starts printing ok... the skirt and perimeter look ok, so it doesn't seem to be a bed level issue. I can think of no reason why it would stop during the infill on the first layer.

You might try printing a bit faster, in case it's some sort of thermal creep issue that is causing the plastic to deform in the print head.... ooh, here's a thought... Is the fan on the back of the print head running? (it should be on all the time).

Also, are you printing on glue? If so, take a wet cloth or sponge, and smear the glue around really well; dissolve it, and then let it dry on the heated bed, so that you don't risk gunking up the nozzle with glue.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Hi Ilumnarti,

I followed you're recommendations, a little faster and also set the bottom layer in expert settings to nill.

back vent is not moving. I don't see how to switch it seperate from the other fans.

Its in progress know and further then before. So perhaps..??

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

That fan can not be manually controlled, it will start up as soon as the machine gets power. If it doesn't start, something is wrong. Pull back the black mesh that hides the cables going to the print head and check if it has become unplugged, this has been a problem on quite a few machines.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

If the wires look ok up in the mesh (it's a pink andblue pair that connects to a red and black pair in a 2-pin JST connector block) then it's possible the polarity is reversed.

If you look at the electronics board under the printer, you should see the pink and blue wires going to a connector on the back of the board, on the short edge. Turn off the power, make a note of where it is connected, and then remove the connector and turn it 180 degrees and plug it back in, so pink goes where blue was and vice versa. Now turn on printer, and see whether the fan now starts immediately. If not, turn printer off, and put pink/blue connector back the way it was.

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

You're correct. Its lose. Worse. The connector is missing. What is left is a red wire with a cableshoe on the hotend site. and a lose pair at the other site. So I have to get a new connector for it. I'll call Ultimaker tomorrow.

The print went reasonably well for 75% of the bottom layer. Then it stopped and started the second layer. :-(

so it messed up again. But I'll keep on trying. Some day I will finish this %^$&* object

number4

grtz

Aad

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Can you send me the gcode that you just tried to print? I'd like to take a look at it. Email it to gcode@fbrc8.com.

Also, until you get the fan working I'm not sure i'd bother printing anything large. That's what's causing the jams you're seeing.

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

thanks for all the help and support guy's.

I'll fix the fan firsr. The G-code is in you're post. Hope you'll find what is wrong with it.

best regards.

Grtz

Aad

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

For a large part you don't really need the side fans as each layer has plenty of time to cool before you start the next.

So I suppose you could steal the connector for one of the side fans and use it for the rear fan. But note that if you disconnect one side fan, then neither will work as they are in series like the old Christmas tree light bulbs such that if one is broken they all go out.

The rear fan normally comes on the instant you turn on power - even before the lights come on.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

I might try printing the first layer or two of your print later, to see how it goes. I don't see anything wrong with the code; it looks like standard UM2 gcode, and it's all there - so I'm confused by the latest effect - stopping partway through the first layer, and starting layer 2.

I think someone else posted something similar recently, didn't they, but I don't remember which thread. It printed part of the first layer, then a bit of layer 2, then went on to layer 3. Very odd.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Hi All,

thanks for thinking along. Its really helping a lot.

I fixed the back fan. had some small connectors laying around. The fan is up and running as soon the UM2 is powered up.

Regarding the skipping of random layer parts. Just a thought: Could it be a memory-problem? I'm new to 3D printing but work computers for ages. In earlier days (the 80s) shortage of memory could really mess-up running programs (buffer overflow etc)

I have no idea how the G-code is buffered in the UM firmware. I read the link you mentioned Iluminarti. And that object was also quit substantial.

anyone??

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

I doubt there are buffer problems.

you have me very confused. Initially I thought the printer was still moving around on the first layer but no plastic coming out (clogged nozzle, cold nozzle, or extruder ground up the filament) but now it sounds like maybe it just skips over part of the printing and jumps to the next layer before it finishes? Which is it?

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Person on the other thread said that 'support said' it might be related to the cables going to the front panel. Some sort of problem reading the SD card, I guess. In his case at least some of the missing infill was at the start of the layer, and it then printed fine from the middle of the layer onwards, so it's not something as simple as 'an error happens so do nothing until the next z-move and then carry on'. The missing gcode was unremarkable in and of itself, as was the point at which the print started up again. On my printer, that other gcode printed fine.

Not had a chance to try this one yet, but it does seem like its probably an electronics thing, rather than gcode or firmware per se. Weird one though.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Not wanting to hijack this thread but I have something similar (I think). For me it doesn't really matter the size of the print (haven't tried to print anything big yet) but when putting down filament for the first layer it starts off very smooth and well bonded (if that’s the correct term) and then it becomes a little more random with what looks like not enough filament going down.

It then goes on to print fairly well after the base is complete.

Hopefully pic attached will show better than my description!

Many thanks

GBR1

Strange finish on base of print

 

note: when printing it starts the base layer fill in the top left to bottom middle and then works towards the bottom left hand corner. stops and then starts again just right of top left, this is where is seems to go wrong/worse.

 

initial layer thickness .3 mm

layer thickness .1 mm

Bottom layer speed 15 mm/sec

Fan off

print speed 50 mm/s

Heated plate 60 degrees celsius

Shell thickness .8 mm

Temp 220

material flow 100%

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

@gr5,

sorry to confuse you. The initial problem was indeed no output within a few lines. But after the alterations I made advised by Iluminarti it printed nice and smooth for appr. 75% of the first layer and then it jumped to the second layer.

the weird thing is it printed just fine scaled down at 25%. Now the back fan is fixed I'll try to print a 75% scale version of the object. I tried to read the G-code and cannot see anything strange. It is a lot of G-code however, so it took me a while to follow the imaginary lines on a sheet of paper.

So fingers crossed. I start from factory settings, calibrate the build platform and load new filament. I'll post the results of this run later on.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

Well its printing. Some print (100%) same parameters, same G-code. And now it skipped in the fifth layer over 70% of the layer. So it looks completely random. No alterations of speed temperatuur,environment temperature none what so ever.

If it is not a buffer issue, what can it be. Even an Arduino is a computer. Same input & same instructions = same output. (in the theoretical world it is).

I havent seen this in my smaller objects. So there are already three people who encountered the same issue. Something in the firmware?

Can anyone tell me how to emulate or simulate the process?

grtz Aad

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

It looks like it may be a random communication glitch with the SD card. If you haven't already, open a support ticket with UM and reference this thread.

I'll continue to do some testing, but UM maybe able to help by tying it to other issues they've seen.

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

@aad - This is a hardware issue. I recommend talking to customer support. They will have you remove your larger cover under your UM2 and then re-route the 2 gray flat ribbon cables. Even just removing the cover may be enough - but talk to (or email) UM Support. You did use SD card, right? USB not officially supported because it is flakey.

 

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Posted · fail to print first layer of larger object (110*150 mm)

@GBR1 - you have under-extrusion on your bottom most layer almost certainly due to your Z height.

You have the lowest layer set to .3mm so it is trying to exude .3mm worth of filament when z=.3. When you levelled, if you used a piece of paper then your z=0 is probably actually: nozzle .1mm above the bed. Instead of z=0 means touching the bed. You can fix this by leveling a little closer (nozzle closer to bed), or by increasing flow by 33% for the first layer.

This is important not just for the look but also to get good adhesion so your part doesn't get knocked off too easily or so your part doesn't warp so much when the PLA shrinks (for larger parts).

 

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